Player Discussion Bo Horvat

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Really sucks to see his offensive game drop off.

 

[vanarchy]

I feel like he's still trying to do to much at times. Should be going for the smart play instead of the flashy one. We know he's capable of both.

 

[kanucks25]

I don't really get that. Horvat has skill and decent hands in tight. And he's a bull on the boards and controls possession down low. He seems like an obvious fit for a 2011-era Kesler-esque role on the PP: Net front for tips/deflections, retrieve loose pucks, and collect the garbage.

You put Petey and Boeser on opposite sides, slinging it around and dropping bombs. What we need is a dynamic QB Hughes is coming) and a fluid, skilled, high IQ player who can fill that bumper spot. We haven't really found a fit in the bumper yet.

Kesler was great at screens/deflection though and I just haven't seen that from Horvat yet.

Yeah, I haven't seen those "decent hands in tight", or anything that shows he's a good screener or tipper.

He has decent all around offensive ability, but no discernible talent that stands out and can be used as a strength on the PP. Not a great passer, not a great shooter, not a great deker.

Also, the spot he plays is more suitable for a pure skill player, like Kuznetsov for example. The player in his spot needs to be able to make quick and accurate passes to the bumper and across the crease to the trigger (Ovechkin spot), while playing give and go with the boards QB (Pettersson). Players like Baertschi or Goldobin are better fits for this role.

That leaves the bumper, which he was doing tonight, and it's obvious it doesn't really work with a left-hander if you're going to setup on the right side. It works much better with a right-hander there (like Oshie) so that you have multiple one-timer options when passing from the right side to the left.

Ideally we would also have a right-hander on the point, which is why I'm a proponent of having Stecher there instead of Edler or Hutton.

 

[PG Canuck]

I'm not really worried. He needs some help offensively - he can't carry around Schaller/Virtanen/whoever else they plug with him. Him and Baertschi seemed to work decently together but Baertschi has concussion issues all the time now.

He looks fatigued to me. Play is a bit sloppier, decisions are a bit slower, skating isn't as explosive. Every time we doubt him, or put a ceiling on his play he overcomes it.

 

[LordBacon]

Bo is a resilient player. He had improved each and every year, the kid will find a way through this. Have faith in our captain dudes

 

[kanucks25]

I have complete faith that he'll be fine 5-on-5, especially when he gets some good, consistent wingers.

Still firmly believe he shouldn't be on the 1PP though.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I have complete faith that he'll be fine 5-on-5, especially when he gets some good, consistent wingers.

Still firmly believe he shouldn't be on the 1PP though.

Who would you put on instead?

 

[kanucks25]

Who would you put on instead?

Baerstchi or Goldobin.

IMO the ideal PP setup for us has 2 LH and 3 RH. EP is obviously one LH, so that only leaves one spot for Bo, Bae and Goldy.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Baerstchi or Goldobin.

IMO the ideal PP setup for us has 2 LH and 3 RH. EP is obviously one LH, so that only leaves one spot for Bo, Bae and Goldy.

Baertschi already is on the #1 unit when healthy. When healthy, we roll with Edler-Pettersson-Horvat-Boeser-Baertschi. Goldobin has been tried on the 1st unit and didn't really click IIRC, but still gets 2nd unit time.

Horvat is the 2nd leading scorer on the team, I don't know why we would take him off the 1st unit. He's been snake bitten lately but he'll bounce back.

 

[kanucks25]

Baertschi already is on the #1 unit when healthy. When healthy, we roll with Edler-Pettersson-Horvat-Boeser-Baertschi. Goldobin has been tried on the 1st unit and didn't really click IIRC, but still gets 2nd unit time.

Horvat is the 2nd leading scorer on the team, I don't know why we would take him off the 1st unit. He's been snake bitten lately but he'll bounce back.

Bae and Goldy have not been in Bo's spot when they've been on the 1PP, because Bo has always been there.

They've tried them both on the opposite side of EP but that setup only works if you have an elite shot (see Toronto's PP with Matthews). Unfortunately, neither Bae or Goldy have that.

What I'm looking for is a copy of Washington's PP.

Right boards, LH playmaker (Backstrom / EP)
Right side of the net, LH playmaker (Kuznetsov / Bae)
Bumper, RH (Oshie / Leivo?)
Trigger, RH shooter (Ovechkin / Boeser)
D-man, RH (Carlson / Stecher?)

 

[sting101]

Bae and Goldy have not been in Bo's spot when they've been on the 1PP, because Bo has always been there.

They've tried them both on the opposite side of EP but that setup only works if you have an elite shot (see Toronto's PP with Matthews). Unfortunately, neither Bae or Goldy have that.

What I'm looking for is a copy of Washington's PP.

Right boards, LH playmaker (Backstrom / EP)
Right side of the net, LH playmaker (Kuznetsov / Bae)
Bumper, RH (Oshie / Leivo?)
Trigger, RH shooter (Ovechkin / Boeser)
D-man, RH (Carlson / Stecher?)

Not bad.
I really like the idea of Stecher but i feel he struggles a bit with the neutral zone and entry...still would be worth a try especially with Pettersson as the QB.
The issue i see with that set up is net presence. Baertschi or Goldy will be easily boxed out and Baertschi isnt even good to go.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

I have complete faith that he'll be fine 5-on-5, especially when he gets some good, consistent wingers.

Still firmly believe he shouldn't be on the 1PP though.

Why?

He's not the issue. The lack of a true threat in the bumper spot who can shoot and make smart quick passes is making it hard for them to work down low effectively. He's good at grabbing the loose pucks after shots and sees the ice well. It might look like he's forcing the jam play at the side of the net but that's because there isn't a better option due to the stagnancy of the PP Unit as a whole.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Bae and Goldy have not been in Bo's spot when they've been on the 1PP, because Bo has always been there.

They've tried them both on the opposite side of EP but that setup only works if you have an elite shot (see Toronto's PP with Matthews). Unfortunately, neither Bae or Goldy have that.

What I'm looking for is a copy of Washington's PP.

Right boards, LH playmaker (Backstrom / EP)
Right side of the net, LH playmaker (Kuznetsov / Bae)
Bumper, RH (Oshie / Leivo?)
Trigger, RH shooter (Ovechkin / Boeser)
D-man, RH (Carlson / Stecher?)

Oh I gotcha. EDIT : nevermind.

 

[kanucks25]

Not bad.
I really like the idea of Stecher but i feel he struggles a bit with the neutral zone and entry...still would be worth a try especially with Pettersson as the QB.
The issue i see with that set up is net presence. Baertschi or Goldy will be easily boxed out and Baertschi isnt even good to go.

This PP setup isn't about getting screened shots, it's about quick and/or cross-ice puck movement. The only time a screened shot would be taken would be if the D-man up top is taking it and in that case, the bumper would be the screen in the slot with the low player coming in as secondary traffic / clean-up.

Why?

He's not the issue. The lack of a true threat in the bumper spot who can shoot and make smart quick passes is making it hard for them to work down low effectively. He's good at grabbing the loose pucks after shots and sees the ice well. It might look like he's forcing the jam play at the side of the net but that's because there isn't a better option due to the stagnancy of the PP Unit as a whole.

Because:

Yeah, I haven't seen those "decent hands in tight", or anything that shows he's a good screener or tipper.

He has decent all around offensive ability, but no discernible talent that stands out and can be used as a strength on the PP. Not a great passer, not a great shooter, not a great deker.

Also, the spot he plays is more suitable for a pure skill player, like Kuznetsov for example. The player in his spot needs to be able to make quick and accurate passes to the bumper and across the crease to the trigger (Ovechkin spot), while playing give and go with the boards QB (Pettersson). Players like Baertschi or Goldobin are better fits for this role.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

This PP setup isn't about getting screened shots, it's about quick and/or cross-ice puck movement. The only time a screened shot would be taken would be if the D-man up top is taking it and in that case, the bumper would be the screen in the slot with the low player coming in as secondary traffic / clean-up.



Because:

Horvat's a good player in that spot. The issue is that the puck movement and lack of an option in the bumper spot closes off any plays for him when he gets the puck. The Canucks need to work the umbrella with Boeser and EP firing shots from the top of the circles and quicker puck movement down low to open up the plays for Horvat. If you look at the PP last season with the Sedins running it, he was very effective because of that. This season for the most part there hasn't been effective enough puck movement to open up the down low plays.

 

[mathonwy]

I'm not really worried. He needs some help offensively - he can't carry around Schaller/Virtanen/whoever else they plug with him. Him and Baertschi seemed to work decently together but Baertschi has concussion issues all the time now.

He looks fatigued to me. Play is a bit sloppier, decisions are a bit slower, skating isn't as explosive. Every time we doubt him, or put a ceiling on his play he overcomes it.

Yes.

He's really really missing Bae.

Bae and Bo know how to maintain down low puck possession via cycling and strong board play.

Roussel and Virtanen don't have the hockey IQ to do that which forces Bo to overextend himself.

He's rising to the challenge though.

He had a particularly good shift in the 3rd last night where he absolutely controlled the puck behind the Hawks goal by himself which is kinda par for the course for Bo as he just keeps getting better and better.

Being drafted by the Canucks is really baptism by fire.

Bo's succeeding in spite of MGMT's idiocy.

 

[MS]

1-7-8 in his last 17 games.

Has pretty clearly burned out from overuse. When was the last time he used his elite speed to take the puck to the net on the rush?

Still obviously a solid two-way player but should not be continuing to play 22 minutes/game with all our centres healthy.

 

[StreetHawk]

1-7-8 in his last 17 games.

Has pretty clearly burned out from overuse. When was the last time he used his elite speed to take the puck to the net on the rush?

Still obviously a solid two-way player but should not be continuing to play 22 minutes/game with all our centres healthy.

He doesn’t have the wingers to get points. Sucks that he can’t show his offensive skills more but the team is lacking quality wingers for him.

Like Kesler he’s the net guy on the PP. hard to get points when the puck mainly gets moved from the point to the side wall.

 

[kanucks25]

What I'm looking for is a copy of Washington's PP.

Right boards, LH playmaker (Backstrom / EP)
Right side of the net, LH playmaker (Kuznetsov / Bae)
Bumper, RH (Oshie / Leivo?)
Trigger, RH shooter (Ovechkin / Boeser)
D-man, RH (Carlson / Stecher?)

Well they actually took my advice (other than taking Horvat off in favour of Goldobin).

Unfortunately Boeser was inexplicably horrendous with the puck whenever he touched it. Either it took forever to get a shot off or just turned it over. Baffling.

 

[F A N]

Yes.

He's really really missing Bae.

Bae and Bo know how to maintain down low puck possession via cycling and strong board play.

Roussel and Virtanen don't have the hockey IQ to do that which forces Bo to overextend himself.

He's rising to the challenge though.

He had a particularly good shift in the 3rd last night where he absolutely controlled the puck behind the Hawks goal by himself which is kinda par for the course for Bo as he just keeps getting better and better.

Yep. I think Baertschi is underrated by most posters here and his chemistry with Bo is underrated in general. When Bo is going it seems that it doesn't matter who plays with Bo. But when Bo is having a bad offensive stretch Baertschi's chemistry with Bo becomes more evident.

 

[Var]

What it looks like to me is that Bo is rarely the beneficiary of the good pass. He's either winning a board battle, receiving a cycle pass on the boards, or skating like a bull over the blue line. Either his wingers don't find him or he's not in open spots, I don't know. He just never gets the space with pucks it seems unless he's made it himself.

Real happy Tanev found him today. Great goal.

 

[Chimpradamus]

After merely watching the Canucks more after drafting Pettersson, I must say Horvat is a really good piece to have and a really underrated one. He can play a 2C role with very impressive results, he's good enough to win a cup. Pettersson and Horvat are good enough for a classical 1-2 center punch. Unfortunately Vancouver doesn't have enough premier wingers to go along, nor defense.

If the team has to be top heavy at the end of the game, play Pettersson, Horvat and Boeser together. They're all smart enough to be a real threat, with Pettersson as the cream of the top with his hockey IQ (which is why you keep him at center). Obviously. He's mentioned as one of the core pieces for a reason, I guess.

 

[Windy River]

Just want to bump this discussion once again. Horvat has proved to be very worthy of the C, consistently putting forth great effort and showing skill despite being saddled with trash wingers. Arguably the best Canuck, underrated league, and team, wide.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Just want to bump this discussion once again. Horvat has proved to be very worthy of the C, consistently putting forth great effort and showing skill deapite being saddled with trash wingers. Arguably the best Canuck, underrated league, and team, wide.

Still agree with poster above. He shouldn’t be on PP1! Get a proper net front guy who can actually move around and screen a goalie or provide a tip! I swear if I see that stupid drag move to the front of the net where he just loses possession again on the PP imma scream! Give PP2 an actual centre who can help that unit get possession and play the quick shot low off the pad game purely on PP2 unit time.
Move Gaudette up to the bumper and Leivo to net front so Horvat can man a unit himself. Gaudette is a much better quick shooter suited for the bumper, while Leivo has the big ass to get in front of the goalie.

 

[Windy River]

Still agree with poster above. He shouldn’t be on PP1! Get a proper net front guy who can actually move around and screen a goalie or provide a tip! I swear if I see that stupid drag move to the front of the net where he just loses possession again on the PP imma scream! Give PP2 an actual centre who can help that unit get possession and play the quick shot low off the pad game purely on PP2 unit time.
Move Gaudette up to the bumper and Leivo to net front so Horvat can man a unit himself. Gaudette is a much better quick shooter suited for the bumper, while Leivo has the big ass to get in front of the goalie.

Without getting into the merits of his power play game, all I’m saying is that we often hear discussion of the Canucks being undersized, weak, uninspired, tired, lazy and inconsistent. None of these apply to Bo’s game.