Player Discussion Bo Horvat

[Canuckle1970]

All these shutouts lately as Bo goes thru a cold streak. Losing Peetey for 1.5 games doesnt help but we went 3-3 without him earlier in the year. I think Horvats ups and downs plays a HUGE role on this teams play/standings

Is Bo hurt or just a regular cold streak?

He doesn't have that "charging bull" speed he usually has. Either he is legitimately tired, or playing with an injury.

 

[TruKnyte]

He doesn't have that "charging bull" speed he usually has. Either he is legitimately tired, or playing with an injury.

Could be a combination of both. He had to take on more ice-time with Sutter out, and now with Pettersson's injury that isn't going to get any easier. Greater fatigue = more likely to get a low grade injury.

 

[Windy River]

Bo should definitely hold the C. Very underrated. He may be a tier below Petterson in ability, but IMO the real gap between the rest of the team lies beneath Horvat, not just Petterson alone. Boeser is great but Horvat, to me, is clearly the more valuable player.

 

[iFan]

Bo should definitely hold the C. Very underrated. He may be a tier below Petterson in ability, but IMO the real gap between the rest of the team lies beneath Horvat, not just Petterson alone. Boeser is great but Horvat, to me, is clearly the more valuable player.

I actually agree with you on this, Horvat isn’t the shiny new toy for Canuck fans and I think he does get a bit under appreciated. Pettersson is ridiculously good, same with Boeser but Horvat is just as valuable to this team as either one of those two.

 

[Windy River]

I actually agree with you on this, Horvat isn’t the shiny new toy for Canuck fans and I think he does get a bit under appreciated. Pettersson is ridiculously good, same with Boeser but Horvat is just as valuable to this team as either one of those two.

Sorry, I think we actually disagree

My point was that Horvat isn't really in the same convo as Boeser. He's above that and he's not as far as most people think from the Petey conversation... and then you have the rest of the "supporting staff", headed by Boeser.

 

[iFan]

Sorry, I think we actually disagree

My point was that Horvat isn't really in the same convo as Boeser. He's above that and he's not as far as most people think from the Petey conversation... and then you have the rest of the "supporting staff", headed by Boeser.

Horvat taking nearly 25 face offs a game is a crazy number, if he wasn’t doing that who would replace him at that rate? Offensively, Horvat isn’t as good as Pettersson or Boeser but Horvat’s all around game is just as important to the team as Pettersson or Boeser.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Well Hirsh works for Sportsnet...there is an agenda. I do t doubt that beagle is well respected but I don’t believe he has taken over the locker room after 12 games. Sutter and Bo have been the main leaders for awhile.

Big SPORTSNET..... always pushing their agenda.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Horvat taking nearly 25 face offs a game is a crazy number, if he wasn’t doing that who would replace him at that rate? Offensively, Horvat isn’t as good as Pettersson or Boeser but Horvat’s all around game is just as important to the team as Pettersson or Boeser.

I think u misread

Top 20 Centers in Points (as per NHL.com), Even Strength Linemates:

Nathan MacKinnon
82.42% - Rantanen/Landeskog
Always paired with this duo.

Connor McDavid
24.44% - Chiasson/Draisaitl
12.54% - Caggiula/Draisaitl
12.37% - RNH/Rattie
11.11% RNH/Yamamoto
As percentages drop, there is still a trend: McDavid always has RNH or Draisaitl on his wing. Always.

Mark Scheifele
51.08% - Ehlers/Wheeler
26.26% - Wheeler/Connor
4.13% - Wheeler/Laine
Always paired with Wheeler.

Jack Eichel
37.22% - Skinner/Reinhart
28.54% - Pominville/Skinner
14.12% - Reinhart/Sheary
One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Skinner scored 28, 37, 24 goals in the 3 seasons prior to being on Eichel's wing, so it's not as if Eichel has turned around his game into something he hasn't been.

Brayden Point
34.35% - Kucherov/Johnson
24.71% - Johnson/Gourde
12.93% - Stamkos/Gourde
Typically has a superstar winger flanking him.

Leon Draisaitl
25.90% - McDavid/Chiasson
15.31% - Chiasson/Rieder
13.30% - McDavid/Caggiula
Believe mostly plays wing, but still takes some draws. Been paired with McDavid for majority of his deployment anyways.

Nicklas Backstrom
21.95% - Ovechkin/Wilson
21.10% - Oshie/Vrana
13.54% - Oshie/Ovechkin
11.00% - Oshie/Stephenson
In total, has spent ~35.49% with Ovechkin and ~32.1% without Ovechkin.

Sean Monahan
68.90% - Gaudreau/Lindholm
Always paired with this duo.

Claude Giroux (not playing center)
50.22% - Couturier/Konecny
16.64% - Couturier/Voracek
Always with Couturier/Voracek. Not even playing center either.

Elias Lindholm (Not playing center)
75.69% - Gaudreau/Monahan

Sidney Crosby
21.98% - Guentzel/Simon
18.55% - Guentzel/Rust
14.91% - Brassard/Guentzel
10.95% - Guentzel/Hornqvist
One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Nothing new to Crosby, however.

Evgeni Malkin
30.50% - Kessel/Hagelin
18.00% - Kessel/Pearson
Typically paired with Kessel, who is an elite winger.

Elias Pettersson
24.11% - Eriksson/Goldobin
18.06% - Boeser/Goldobin
14.22% - Boeser/Leivo
9.89% - Goldobin/Virtanen
Has had Boeser flank his winger far more than Horvat, which takes away any good winger being with Bo.

Steven Stamkos
30.84% - Kucherov/Miller
19.05% - Palat/Gourde
13.32% - Gourde/Point
Most of the time, has either Kucherov or Point on his line.

John Tavares
73.20% - Marner/Hyman
Marner has established himself as one of the more elite playmakers in the NHL and has JT on pace for a potential career year in production.

Sebastian Aho (not playing center)
49.40% - Teravainen/Ferland
11.24% - Teravainen/Martinook
I believe TT is the center, but correct me if I am wrong.

Matt Duchene
20.78% - Stone/Dzingel
10.81% - Batherson/Boedker
9.65% - Batherson/Dzingel
8.01% - White/Boedker
Plays good chunk of time with Stone - on that borderline of being similar to Crosby of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Stone may not be a superstar per se, but he's no slouch to have as a winger.

Logan Couture
38.93% - Hertl-Meier
11.95% - Hertl/Labanc
10.07% - Hertl/Pavelski
In same ilk of Crosby/Duchene in terms of not having a top NHL winger flanking him.

Bo Horvat
49.5% - Combination of Schaller/Virtanen/Granlund/Eriksson/Roussel/Gagner/Motte
8.96% - Boeser/Baertschi
8.17% - Goldobin/Virtanen
6.52% - Boeser/Goldobin
Has constantly been shuffled around to try and bolster a line/make a shutdown line, as well as the Canucks only really having Boeser as an established producing winger, who mostly plays with Pettersson.

Dylan Larkin
18.60% - Mantha/Helm
13.47% - Mantha/Abdelkader
13.33% - Abdelkader/Nyquist
12.48% - Mantha/Nyquist
Easily has the second worst wingers flanking him, after Horvat, in terms of the top 20 point producing centers right now.
-
So, Crosby/Duchene/Couture/Larkin are the other centers who don't have other superstars/top wingers attached to them. We also need to keep in mind, 13 players on this list have more powerplay points than Horvat as well.

If we can get another solid or dare I say, elite winger for Horvat, why can't he hit 80 points? His PP production is probably average right now, and may go up in the future. Bo has wasted 50% of his ES icetime with useless garbage, and only recently has begun to have some ok wingers on his wings, and even then, they aren't much to rave about.

Interesting info, thanks.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm bumping this because I noticed that Horvat's primary points numbers have dropped off this year.

Last year, he was at 1.62 P1/60, which placed him in the top90 of all forwards. This year, he's at 1.09 P1/60. With a 400 minutes played cut-off, he's in the 181 - 210 cohort, which is just shy of a top6 forward. That's not good.

I've noticed him tailing off of late. He needs to get it together for this team to be anything. I know they have overworked him this year and his linemates have been not-so-good. Still, that's no excuse when Roussel and Virtanen are now bettering his primary points contribution.

He's a key cog. This kind of drop off raises a questions.

 

[LordBacon]

Horvat is the new kesler. Great two way center for 2nd line, and never gets the competent wingers that he deserves.

 

[4Twenty]

Mark Stone would solidify this forward core so much. Bo needs help. And in the meantime, just keep Roussel there. At 5 on 5 that tandem is 11 goals for 1 against. Jake doesn't work there or anywhere really.

 

[Jay Cee]

Eriksson was supposed to be a top 6 player and would have helped out a great deal. Now we need at least 2 top 6 players so we can put him on the third line like he deserves, and make top dollar for it.

 

[PG Canuck]

Top 20 Centers in Points (as per NHL.com), Even Strength Linemates:

Nathan MacKinnon
82.42% - Rantanen/Landeskog
Always paired with this duo.

Connor McDavid
24.44% - Chiasson/Draisaitl
12.54% - Caggiula/Draisaitl
12.37% - RNH/Rattie
11.11% RNH/Yamamoto
As percentages drop, there is still a trend: McDavid always has RNH or Draisaitl on his wing. Always.

Mark Scheifele
51.08% - Ehlers/Wheeler
26.26% - Wheeler/Connor
4.13% - Wheeler/Laine
Always paired with Wheeler.

Jack Eichel
37.22% - Skinner/Reinhart
28.54% - Pominville/Skinner
14.12% - Reinhart/Sheary
One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Skinner scored 28, 37, 24 goals in the 3 seasons prior to being on Eichel's wing, so it's not as if Eichel has turned around his game into something he hasn't been.

Brayden Point
34.35% - Kucherov/Johnson
24.71% - Johnson/Gourde
12.93% - Stamkos/Gourde
Typically has a superstar winger flanking him.

Leon Draisaitl
25.90% - McDavid/Chiasson
15.31% - Chiasson/Rieder
13.30% - McDavid/Caggiula
Believe mostly plays wing, but still takes some draws. Been paired with McDavid for majority of his deployment anyways.

Nicklas Backstrom
21.95% - Ovechkin/Wilson
21.10% - Oshie/Vrana
13.54% - Oshie/Ovechkin
11.00% - Oshie/Stephenson
In total, has spent ~35.49% with Ovechkin and ~32.1% without Ovechkin.

Sean Monahan
68.90% - Gaudreau/Lindholm
Always paired with this duo.

Claude Giroux (not playing center)
50.22% - Couturier/Konecny
16.64% - Couturier/Voracek
Always with Couturier/Voracek. Not even playing center either.

Elias Lindholm (Not playing center)
75.69% - Gaudreau/Monahan

Sidney Crosby
21.98% - Guentzel/Simon
18.55% - Guentzel/Rust
14.91% - Brassard/Guentzel
10.95% - Guentzel/Hornqvist
One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Nothing new to Crosby, however.

Evgeni Malkin
30.50% - Kessel/Hagelin
18.00% - Kessel/Pearson
Typically paired with Kessel, who is an elite winger.

Elias Pettersson
24.11% - Eriksson/Goldobin
18.06% - Boeser/Goldobin
14.22% - Boeser/Leivo
9.89% - Goldobin/Virtanen
Has had Boeser flank his winger far more than Horvat, which takes away any good winger being with Bo.

Steven Stamkos
30.84% - Kucherov/Miller
19.05% - Palat/Gourde
13.32% - Gourde/Point
Most of the time, has either Kucherov or Point on his line.

John Tavares
73.20% - Marner/Hyman
Marner has established himself as one of the more elite playmakers in the NHL and has JT on pace for a potential career year in production.

Sebastian Aho (not playing center)
49.40% - Teravainen/Ferland
11.24% - Teravainen/Martinook
I believe TT is the center, but correct me if I am wrong.

Matt Duchene
20.78% - Stone/Dzingel
10.81% - Batherson/Boedker
9.65% - Batherson/Dzingel
8.01% - White/Boedker
Plays good chunk of time with Stone - on that borderline of being similar to Crosby of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Stone may not be a superstar per se, but he's no slouch to have as a winger.

Logan Couture
38.93% - Hertl-Meier
11.95% - Hertl/Labanc
10.07% - Hertl/Pavelski
In same ilk of Crosby/Duchene in terms of not having a top NHL winger flanking him.

Bo Horvat
49.5% - Combination of Schaller/Virtanen/Granlund/Eriksson/Roussel/Gagner/Motte
8.96% - Boeser/Baertschi
8.17% - Goldobin/Virtanen
6.52% - Boeser/Goldobin
Has constantly been shuffled around to try and bolster a line/make a shutdown line, as well as the Canucks only really having Boeser as an established producing winger, who mostly plays with Pettersson.

Dylan Larkin
18.60% - Mantha/Helm
13.47% - Mantha/Abdelkader
13.33% - Abdelkader/Nyquist
12.48% - Mantha/Nyquist
Easily has the second worst wingers flanking him, after Horvat, in terms of the top 20 point producing centers right now.
-
So, Crosby/Duchene/Couture/Larkin are the other centers who don't have other superstars/top wingers attached to them. We also need to keep in mind, 13 players on this list have more powerplay points than Horvat as well.

If we can get another solid or dare I say, elite winger for Horvat, why can't he hit 80 points? His PP production is probably average right now, and may go up in the future. Bo has wasted 50% of his ES icetime with useless garbage, and only recently has begun to have some ok wingers on his wings, and even then, they aren't much to rave about.

This is probably a good reason. Horvat has been asked to carry the defensive role when Sutter/Beagle we’re out, had the most faveoffs taken in the NHL (not sure if he still does) and is being flanked by garbage that can’t do anything in the offensive zone.

The fact Horvat has produced at the rate he has is impressive to me. I’d be happy if he could just get ONE decent winger that could help in the offensive zone.

Horvat is likely burnt out from all the heavy defensive lifting he has done and all the tough minutes he’s had to play.

 

[Bleach Clean]

This is probably a good reason. Horvat has been asked to carry the defensive role when Sutter/Beagle we’re out, had the most faveoffs taken in the NHL (not sure if he still does) and is being flanked by garbage that can’t do anything in the offensive zone.

The fact Horvat has produced at the rate he has is impressive to me. I’d be happy if he could just get ONE decent winger that could help in the offensive zone.

Horvat is likely burnt out from all the heavy defensive lifting he has done and all the tough minutes he’s had to play.

It's probably burn out because Roussel and Virtanen are bettering him in the P1/60 category.

It could also be rotation as EP40 has taken his spot on the top line and Boeser is playing there and not with Horvat.

Something to monitor going forward.

 

[cabinessence]

Horvat has increased his goal totals each season as a Canuck. He went from 13 to 16 to 20, to 22 last season. He now sits at 18 after 54 games and is on a projected 27 goal pace over 82 games. At the rate he has been going in the second half, can anyone see him getting fewer than 5 goals in the next 28 games and not continuing his goal total improvement each season?

 

[VanJack]

Bo Horvat is a solid, two-way second line center. And is ultra-valuable to the Canucks on both sides of the puck. I just wish he could find a way to bump the slumps he gets into, where he goes pointless and goal-less through 10 game stretches.

They need more consistent scoring from him, and you could see last night some of his frustration, because he knows it. Of course part of the problem is that when Beagle and Sutter went down, Bo was drawing all the heavy lifting in the d-zone and it definitely wore him down.

Canucks could still use another skilled, creative two-way center to round out their lineup. Maybe Gaudette or eventually Madden?

 

[elitepete]

I actually agree with you on this, Horvat isn’t the shiny new toy for Canuck fans and I think he does get a bit under appreciated. Pettersson is ridiculously good, same with Boeser but Horvat is just as valuable to this team as either one of those two.

Disagree with your last sentence.

Noone comes even close to Pettersson’s value to this team.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Forget a top line LW, the goal should be to get Horvat some wingers aside from Roussel.

Go after Donskoi as a start.

We can no longer treat Baertschi as a constant in the line-up.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Forget a top line LW, the goal should be to get Horvat some wingers aside from Roussel.

Go after Donskoi as a start.

We can no longer treat Baertschi as a constant in the line-up.

100%. Any lineup that pencils Baertschi in as a top-6 player next season is doomed.

I'd have next seasons forwards as:

Goldobin-Pettersson-Boeser
someone-Horvat-someone
Baertschi-Gaudette-Virtanen/MacEwen
Roussel-Beagle-Eriksson

Lots of decent UFAs to go after, just don't overpay Ferland or Simmons.

 

[I am toxic]

100%. Any lineup that pencils Baertschi in as a top-6 player next season is doomed.

I'd have next seasons forwards as:

Goldobin-Pettersson-Boeser
someone-Horvat-someone
Baertschi-Gaudette-Virtanen/MacEwen
Roussel-Beagle-Eriksson

Lots of decent UFAs to go after, just don't overpay Ferland or Simmons.

. . . proceeds to pencil in Goldobin . . .

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

. . . proceeds to pencil in Goldobin . . .

Fair point, but if Goldy flounders with Roussel and Baertschi in the bottom 6, there are options for the team. Another way to think of it is: one top-6 winger spot should go to the best of Goldy/Baertschi/Roussel.

Right now, with everyone healthy the top 6 includes all of Goldy, Baertschi, and Virtanen. THAT sucks.

 

[I am toxic]

Fair point, but if Goldy flounders with Roussel and Baertschi in the bottom 6, there are options for the team. Another way to think of it is: one top-6 winger spot should go to the best of Goldy/Baertschi/Roussel.

That's Baertschi.

We're doomed.

 

[kanucks25]

Love the guy but no NHL #1 PP unit will be successful with Bo Horvat on it.

His play-style is built for 5-on-5, using his power to create chances off the rush and off the cycle.

He simply does not have the offensive skill to have any role on any top PP.

 

[bossram]

Love the guy but no NHL #1 PP unit will be successful with Bo Horvat on it.

His play-style is built for 5-on-5, using his power to create chances off the rush and off the cycle.

He simply does not have the offensive skill to have any role on any top PP.

I don't really get that. Horvat has skill and decent hands in tight. And he's a bull on the boards and controls possession down low. He seems like an obvious fit for a 2011-era Kesler-esque role on the PP: Net front for tips/deflections, retrieve loose pucks, and collect the garbage.

You put Petey and Boeser on opposite sides, slinging it around and dropping bombs. What we need is a dynamic QB Hughes is coming) and a fluid, skilled, high IQ player who can fill that bumper spot. We haven't really found a fit in the bumper yet.

 

[Regal]

I don't really get that. Horvat has skill and decent hands in tight. And he's a bull on the boards and controls possession down low. He seems like an obvious fit for a 2011-era Kesler-esque role on the PP: Net front for tips/deflections, retrieve loose pucks, and collect the garbage.

You put Petey and Boeser on opposite sides, slinging it around and dropping bombs. What we need is a dynamic QB Hughes is coming) and a fluid, skilled, high IQ player who can fill that bumper spot. We haven't really found a fit in the bumper yet.

Kesler was great at screens/deflection though and I just haven't seen that from Horvat yet.