Bo Horvat vs. Nazem Kadri

[zeke]

Kadri had a bit better all around game, but you can't ignore the whopping 14.9% on-ice shooting percentage he had in his rookie season that fueled that production. The following 2 seasons, with a more normalize on-ice shooting percentage, his P/60 was 1.63. Horvat the last two years was 1.83, though his on-ice shooting percentage was slightly high. Even taking that into account though, Horvat's age 21-22 seasons were still more productive than Kadri was from ages 23-25. It's only the last two years and that inflated rookie year where he's produced more. He's a better player now, but he wasn't before his age 26 year. That doesn't mean Horvat will be better, but he has a decent chance.

good post.

 

[King In The North]

Good comparisons, I gotta take Horvat though.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

You didnt get the point of my post. It wasnt to compare Horvats minutes vs Kadris minutes. I was comparing Kadri's minutes with Kadri's minutes. His production did not go up with increased ice time or role.

Besides, before this season Horvats minutes were not different from Kadri's at all. Kadri actually played more even strength minutes than Horvat two seasons ago. Horvat kills penalties, Kadri does not. So even comparing the two, there isnt much ice time discrepancy besides on the PP, which Horvat is not a good PP player.

different teams and styles, playing with some talent on a deep team vs no talent on a crap team, and dont tell me vancouvers teams were ever that bad as those leafs teams cause they werent.

 

[Icebreakers]

different teams and styles, playing with some talent on a deep team vs no talent on a crap team, and dont tell me vancouvers teams were ever that bad as those leafs teams cause they werent.

lol??? The canucks have been down right atrocious the past 3 seasons. They had 69 points two seasons ago and 73 last season. You guys had back to back of 68 and 69 points. and those 73 points came from winning like 6 of their last 7 because of the Sedins retiring. Where have you been the last 3 seasons? The Canucks are universally recognized as a bottom 3 team and have been a joke.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

They are close but kadri is still better and that's the point I'm making. Don't forget kadris a better goal scorer and plays with an edge.

Agree on the goal scoring. The playing with the edge can be both a good thing and a bad thing as we saw in last years playoffs.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Agree on the goal scoring. The playing with the edge can be both a good thing and a bad thing as we saw in last years playoffs.

yeah fair enough with the edge, he usually doesnt cross the lines like marchand so but he does have a history, its mostly on the good side of the line.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

lol??? The canucks have been down right atrocious the past 3 seasons. They had 69 points two seasons ago and 73 last season. You guys had back to back of 68 and 69 points. and those 73 points came from winning like 6 of their last 7 because of the Sedins retiring. Where have you been the last 3 seasons? The Canucks are universally recognized as a bottom 3 team and have been a joke.

im talking about pre matthews, those leafs two years were horrible when we finishes 4th and last.
regardless kadri is better now...

 

[Icebreakers]

im talking about pre matthews, those leafs two years were horrible when we finishes 4th and last.
regardless kadri is better now...

And im talking about those seasons too..they were equally bad as the Canucks last two seasons. Those were Kadri age 24-26 seasons, which is exactly what Horvat is coming upon. Everything I've shown you have shown that they are equal as of right now. Anything can happen this up coming season.

 

[Horse McHindu]

LOL, how is this even a real or worthy topic?

It's like asking, "who's better?"

Auston Matthews or Brandon Sutter?

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

And im talking about those seasons too..they were equally bad as the Canucks last two seasons. Those were Kadri age 24-26 seasons, which is exactly what Horvat is coming upon. Everything I've shown you have shown that they are equal as of right now. Anything can happen this up coming season.

we both know horvat is the better talent so its no surprise he will be the better player in the future, but unless he shows it im taking kadri who does a lot of things better then horvat right now.

 

[CP4]

Well, I think that since Kadri has majorly outperformed Horvat for the last bunch of years(Horvat's entire career so far), and because Kadri will likely outperform him for years to come, as he is super skilled and also on a team oozing with talent....

Kadri wins this one easily.

Did you forget that you made this thread?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Did you forget that you made this thread?

Nope. But I thought I'd share my oft-requested opinion on the matter.

 

[CP4]

Nope. But I thought I'd share my oft-requested opinion on the matter.

I see, so why not add it to the OP?

 

[Holymakinaw]

I see, so why not add it to the OP?

Because I decided to add it when I added it. Why do you care?

 

[TMLeafs17]

LOL, how is this even a real or worthy topic?

It's like asking, "who's better?"

Auston Matthews or Brandon Sutter?

Wait, who is Auston Matthews here?

 

[CP4]

Because I decided to add it when I added it. Why do you care?

Just seems more effecient to put it in the OP. The way you posted made it seem like you were directly replying to yourself.

 

[McVespa99]

Kadri now and going forward because he's had a better career so far.

Mario Lemieux has had a better career so far. Would you take him now ahead of these 2 guys? Flawed logic much?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Mario Lemieux has had a better career so far. Would you take him now ahead of these 2 guys? Flawed logic much?

Mario Lemieux retired 21 years ago, whereas Kadri still has 10-15 years left to play.

I think YOU might be the one with the "flawed logic".

.......Much.

 

[Koolboss]

Kadri no question.
WhoreVat?

 

[LaVar]

Horvat no question.

 

[lomiller1]

Question is bad. Kadri has been the better player and probably still is slightly better but age and trajectory are going in different directions. Horvat will pass him soon and remain the better more valuable player until they are retired. Voted Horvat because all things considered he’s the player I’d rather have.

 

[lomiller1]

Further:
GAR Numbers suggest Horvat may have surpassed Kadri last year.
Evolving-Hockey

Even strength Goals Above Replacement 17/18
Horvat 8.3
Kadri -0.6


Overall Goals Above Replacement 17/18
Horvat 11.4
Kadri 5.3


I like to see a couple years worth of data before reaching that type of conclusion but don’t be surprised if a retrospective look back a few years from now says Horvat was the better player from 2017/18 onwards.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Kadri has also played with much better players. Horvat only started to play with an NHL calibre player last year aka Boeser and scored at a similar pace as Kadri. If you are going by today you can't factor in what Kadri did many years ago. Horvat is likely to hit around 60 points this year while playing #1C. They are dead even right now. Going into next year Horvat is likely to surpass Kadri, especially if Kadri gets a diminished role.


Why do you bring up 44 points in lockout season when it was 6 years ago?

Because I place value on players who show a track record of performance. All players have up and down years, so the larger the sample size, the better the analysis.

For instance, Jeff Sinner had an off year this past season and only had 24 goals. Do I ignore that he had 37 the year before, is a 3 time 30+ goal scorer and averages 29G/82 games when I assess him? I know HF likes to do that but it’s pretty myopic.

I stand by my statement.

Horvat could very well surpass Kadri going forward though.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Further:
GAR Numbers suggest Horvat may have surpassed Kadri last year.
Evolving-Hockey

Even strength Goals Above Replacement 17/18
Horvat 8.3
Kadri -0.6


Overall Goals Above Replacement 17/18
Horvat 11.4
Kadri 5.3


I like to see a couple years worth of data before reaching that type of conclusion but don’t be surprised if a retrospective look back a few years from now says Horvat was the better player from 2017/18 onwards.

Also, here are some UN-advanced stats from the last 2 seasons, worth noting.......

GOALS
Kadri - 64
Horvat - 42

POINTS
Kadri - 116
Horvat - 96

 

[BruinsBtn]

Age 21-22

Kadri: 69gms, 15:29 (B- qc), 49.2cf% (+3.8rel), 50.2xgf% (+6.3rel), 23gls, 51pts (82gms, 27gls, 61pts)
Horvat: 145gms, 18:37 (B qc), 47.6cf% (+0.1rel), 48.8xgf% (+3.4rel), 42gls, 96pts (82gms, 24gls, 54pts)



Kadri was better than Horvat at that age.

Kadri is much better now.

Cherry picking and distorting again Zeke. In the three years after he was drafted, Kadri played 51 games and had 19 points and was spending most of his time in the minors. Horvat had played 150 games and 60 points.