Blues Trade Proposals 2019-20 - Part III

[mike1320]

Just a reminder

Gunnarsson-Pietrangelo
Bouwmeester-Parayko
Dunn-Edmundson

Our defensive pairings from Game 7 against Boston, about a year and a half later.

Also a reminder I’m pretty damn sure our current D-Core wasn’t much less of our cap percentage then that one was.

Bouwmeester was forced to retire and we still don't exactly know why things went sour with Petro. It's time to move on. You guys are starting to sound like jaded ex-boyfriends who are drunk dialing their exes at 2am.

 

[kimzey59]

Given the current roster construction on defense I would probably do something like this....
Krug - Parayko
Mikkola - Faulk
Scandella - Bortuzzo
Gunnarson

I truly don't see how we can run a shut down pair at this point. I dislike being forced to deal with that but it looks like it's our new reality. This arrangement at least gets Krug and Faulk partners that will allow them to play their game while mitigating their weaknesses. I would completely understand wanting Scandella with Faulk and putting Mikkola with Bortuzzo as another option but I have great faith in Mikkola and want him playing as many minutes as possible.

I've left Dunn out because I don't think there's any way we keep him for next season.

1- I tend to disagree with this simply because I don't know which Faulk we're going to get next year.
I agree that Faulk was a trainwreck at times during the regular season.
However, the Faulk we saw in the PO's was easily the 3rd best defensive player on the team behind Parayko and ROR(couple slip ups here and there; but he was one of maybe 5 players that showed up actually ready to play).

IF we get PO Faulk next year, you can easily put him and Krug together. Neither one of them is the defensive liability that people are pretending they are.

The other issue here is that I think people are getting far too focused on having set pairings.
With the top 4 we have, I think you see a lot more mixing and matching than we've gotten in the past. This top 4 is far more geared towards "specialized roles" than it is to "multi-purpose" use. Whether he wants to or not; Berube is going to have to put some focus on the matchup situation. Even if the default pairs spread out the defensive focus; you're still going to see a lot of Faulk-Krug in the situations that call for offense and you're going to see a lot of Parayko-Scandella in tight defensive games; and not because those are the "best pairings" we can roll with. I don't think the actual pairs are going to be nearly as relevant as the TOI factor in a particular game.

2- I agree that Dunn is probably gone. IF nothing else, I see him going the Cole/Fabbri route and asking for a trade. The top 4 is locked up and I don't see Dunn being content with a 3rd pairing role for the next 4 years until Scandella come off the books.

 

[mike1320]

1- I tend to disagree with this simply because I don't know which Faulk we're going to get next year.
I agree that Faulk was a trainwreck at times during the regular season.
However, the Faulk we saw in the PO's was easily the 3rd best defensive player on the team behind Parayko and ROR(couple slip ups here and there; but he was one of maybe 5 players that showed up actually ready to play).

IF we get PO Faulk next year, you can easily put him and Krug together. Neither one of them is the defensive liability that people are pretending they are.

The other issue here is that I think people are getting far too focused on having set pairings.
With the top 4 we have, I think you see a lot more mixing and matching than we've gotten in the past. This top 4 is far more geared towards "specialized roles" than it is to "multi-purpose" use. Whether he wants to or not; Berube is going to have to put some focus on the matchup situation. Even if the default pairs spread out the defensive focus; you're still going to see a lot of Faulk-Krug in the situations that call for offense and you're going to see a lot of Parayko-Scandella in tight defensive games; and not because those are the "best pairings" we can roll with. I don't think the actual pairs are going to be nearly as relevant as the TOI factor in a particular game.

2- I agree that Dunn is probably gone. IF nothing else, I see him going the Cole/Fabbri route and asking for a trade. The top 4 is locked up and I don't see Dunn being content with a 3rd pairing role for the next 4 years until Scandella come off the books.

I'm actually pretty stoked to see Krug/Faulk paired up on the PP and O zone face offs. Should be a lot of fun to watch.

 

[Xanadude]

1- I tend to disagree with this simply because I don't know which Faulk we're going to get next year.
I agree that Faulk was a trainwreck at times during the regular season.
However, the Faulk we saw in the PO's was easily the 3rd best defensive player on the team behind Parayko and ROR(couple slip ups here and there; but he was one of maybe 5 players that showed up actually ready to play).

IF we get PO Faulk next year, you can easily put him and Krug together. Neither one of them is the defensive liability that people are pretending they are.

The other issue here is that I think people are getting far too focused on having set pairings.
With the top 4 we have, I think you see a lot more mixing and matching than we've gotten in the past. This top 4 is far more geared towards "specialized roles" than it is to "multi-purpose" use. Whether he wants to or not; Berube is going to have to put some focus on the matchup situation. Even if the default pairs spread out the defensive focus; you're still going to see a lot of Faulk-Krug in the situations that call for offense and you're going to see a lot of Parayko-Scandella in tight defensive games; and not because those are the "best pairings" we can roll with. I don't think the actual pairs are going to be nearly as relevant as the TOI factor in a particular game.

2- I agree that Dunn is probably gone. IF nothing else, I see him going the Cole/Fabbri route and asking for a trade. The top 4 is locked up and I don't see Dunn being content with a 3rd pairing role for the next 4 years until Scandella come off the books.

Bubble Faulk showing up would alleviate many of my concerns in terms of team defense. Mikkola taking the next step would too, as I really like what I've seen of him and he adds much-needed size. Neither make up for what we lose in Petro, of course, but I won't despair until we see how this offseason pans out and how we deploy our units.

 

[BlueKnight]

I'm actually pretty stoked to see Krug/Faulk paired up on the PP and O zone face offs. Should be a lot of fun to watch.

Ugh. Be prepared for a lot of goals against.

Sorry. I'm trying to stay positive but i just don't see any.

 

[simon IC]

1- I tend to disagree with this simply because I don't know which Faulk we're going to get next year.
I agree that Faulk was a trainwreck at times during the regular season.
However, the Faulk we saw in the PO's was easily the 3rd best defensive player on the team behind Parayko and ROR(couple slip ups here and there; but he was one of maybe 5 players that showed up actually ready to play).

IF we get PO Faulk next year, you can easily put him and Krug together. Neither one of them is the defensive liability that people are pretending they are.

The other issue here is that I think people are getting far too focused on having set pairings.
With the top 4 we have, I think you see a lot more mixing and matching than we've gotten in the past. This top 4 is far more geared towards "specialized roles" than it is to "multi-purpose" use. Whether he wants to or not; Berube is going to have to put some focus on the matchup situation. Even if the default pairs spread out the defensive focus; you're still going to see a lot of Faulk-Krug in the situations that call for offense and you're going to see a lot of Parayko-Scandella in tight defensive games; and not because those are the "best pairings" we can roll with. I don't think the actual pairs are going to be nearly as relevant as the TOI factor in a particular game.

2- I agree that Dunn is probably gone. IF nothing else, I see him going the Cole/Fabbri route and asking for a trade. The top 4 is locked up and I don't see Dunn being content with a 3rd pairing role for the next 4 years until Scandella come off the books.

"Pretending"? Thank you for insulting many of the posters here on HF including myself. From the tone of your post, you seem to think you have a bit more insight than the rest of us, but your observations on Faulk's performance in the playoffs has me questioning that. Of course Faulk showed up to play, he had something to prove that the rest of the team did not, but exuberance and effort do not equal solid defensive play. My own observations, (which of course are no more important than yours), were that Faulk played out of his mind for about five periods. Outside of that, he was the same Faulk we saw last season, with multiple defensive gaffes, and he was far from being the third-best defensive player on the team. I am no expert myself, and I have not watched Faulk or Krug carefully over their respective careers. I have, however, looked at the career stats and advanced stats. Neither suggests that either of them has been anything more than average defensively at any time. Finally, I realize HF is just a message board, but you might be surprised at some of the knowledge and insight of some of the posters. I suggest you ask Boston fans and Carolina fans about the defensive play of Krug and Faulk respectively.

 

[Ranksu]

Ugh. Be prepared for a lot of goals against.

Sorry. I'm trying to stay positive but i just don't see any.

You dont need to be sorry. Those Army fans are so biased with their views that letting franchise best player walk for nothing didnt get any reaction. Those fans will bend over what ever Army does with team.

Its totally fine to say what you feel about this whole situation, not just suck it up like those Army's boys.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

You dont need to be sorry. Those Army fans are so biased with their views that letting franchise best player walk for nothing didnt get any reaction. Those fans will bend over what ever Army does with team.

Its totally fine to say what you feel about this whole situation, not just suck it up like those Army's boys.

Name DA's replacement

 

[Stealth JD]

Name DA's replacement

Cptn Happy

 

[kimzey59]

"Pretending"? Thank you for insulting many of the posters here on HF including myself. From the tone of your post, you seem to think you have a bit more insight than the rest of us, but your observations on Faulk's performance in the playoffs has me questioning that. Of course Faulk showed up to play, he had something to prove that the rest of the team did not, but exuberance and effort do not equal solid defensive play. My own observations, (which of course are no more important than yours), were that Faulk played out of his mind for about five periods. Outside of that, he was the same Faulk we saw last season, with multiple defensive gaffes, and he was far from being the third-best defensive player on the team. I am no expert myself, and I have not watched Faulk or Krug carefully over their respective careers. I have, however, looked at the career stats and advanced stats. Neither suggests that either of them has been anything more than average defensively at any time. Finally, I realize HF is just a message board, but you might be surprised at some of the knowledge and insight of some of the posters. I suggest you ask Boston fans and Carolina fans about the defensive play of Krug and Faulk respectively.

Yes, "pretending".
The way of you guys are talking you would think they give up a goal against every time they hit the ice.

As you just said yourself; the stats say that they grade out as average to very slightly below average defensive players. That is not even remotely the same as being a "liability". "Average" players shouldn't need a ton of hand-holding or "hiding". They should be trusted to do their job the majority of the time.

I am well aware that HF typically has some very knowledgeable and insightful posters. But right it seems like everybody is too emotional to think straight. The majority of the people are sensationalizing everything to paint a "doom and gloom" scenario. And they are ignoring logic and facts to do it. I get that people didn't want to see Petro walk; but they need to get ahold of themselves.

 

[LGB]

Yes, "pretending".
The way of you guys are talking you would think they give up a goal against every time they hit the ice.

In fact, over the past two seasons Dunn has the second lowest on-ice 5v5 GA rate behind only Parayko as well as the lowest rate of unblocked shots against on the entire team. All that with his defensive gaffes which you would assume a young player would make less frequently with more experience.

Edit: I see you all weren't even talking about Dunn originally whoops

 

[Prosaic]

Name DA's replacement

Ron Hextall did a fantastic job in Philly, and was only fired because he didn’t wanna rush Hart into the NHL.

There are plenty of intelligent hockey minds out there. Don’t kid yourself.

I do hope that when DA is gone, his replacement is someone that will emphasize skill, playing fast and using analytics to his advantage. The teams that evidently do have a clear upper hand on the rest of the NHL in regards to finding value out of the bottom half of their lineup, and drafting talent in later rounds.

 

[Ranksu]

Name DA's replacement

Im not fireing Army, it would Make us bad. I just say his this offseason moves shutdown out Cup window and he deserves critique.

 

[Spektre]

Rangers fans have had interest in Dunn and they have a need there. I wonder if the Blues could pry Kravtsov from them in a Dunn trade.

 

[rumrokh]

1- I tend to disagree with this simply because I don't know which Faulk we're going to get next year.
I agree that Faulk was a trainwreck at times during the regular season.
However, the Faulk we saw in the PO's was easily the 3rd best defensive player on the team behind Parayko and ROR(couple slip ups here and there; but he was one of maybe 5 players that showed up actually ready to play).

IF we get PO Faulk next year, you can easily put him and Krug together. Neither one of them is the defensive liability that people are pretending they are.

The other issue here is that I think people are getting far too focused on having set pairings.
With the top 4 we have, I think you see a lot more mixing and matching than we've gotten in the past. This top 4 is far more geared towards "specialized roles" than it is to "multi-purpose" use. Whether he wants to or not; Berube is going to have to put some focus on the matchup situation. Even if the default pairs spread out the defensive focus; you're still going to see a lot of Faulk-Krug in the situations that call for offense and you're going to see a lot of Parayko-Scandella in tight defensive games; and not because those are the "best pairings" we can roll with. I don't think the actual pairs are going to be nearly as relevant as the TOI factor in a particular game.

2- I agree that Dunn is probably gone. IF nothing else, I see him going the Cole/Fabbri route and asking for a trade. The top 4 is locked up and I don't see Dunn being content with a 3rd pairing role for the next 4 years until Scandella come off the books.

I think too many fans get locked into the dream of a video-game-like pairing. Krug-Parayko sounds nice, but the reality is that if you want Parayko doing your heavy lifting defensively, yea, that's not always or even usually going to be Krug out there. I choked on my beer every time Tampa Bay put Shattenkirk and Sergachev on the ice together, but Krug-Faulk actually makes more sense than a lot of people seem to be imagining.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I think too many fans get locked into the dream of a video-game-like pairing. Krug-Parayko sounds nice, but the reality is that if you want Parayko doing your heavy lifting defensively, yea, that's not always or even usually going to be Krug out there. I choked on my beer every time Tampa Bay put Shattenkirk and Sergachev on the ice together, but Krug-Faulk actually makes more sense than a lot of people seem to be imagining.

I don't know that we've got the personnel to run heavy matchups anymore. We could be at a point where all we can do is simply balance the pairings as best we can.

 

[rumrokh]

I don't know that we've got the personnel to run heavy matchups anymore. We could be at a point where all we can do is simply balance the pairings as best we can.

I'm talking less about specific match-ups and more about zone-starts. That will result in approximate match-ups, but no matter what, I can't see them giving Krug 40% offensive zone starts the way they do with Parayko. Maybe the Blues will have a different philosophy than Boston did, but Boston deployed Krug closer to how the Blues deploy Dunn.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I'm talking less about specific match-ups and more about zone-starts. That will result in approximate match-ups, but no matter what, I can't see them giving Krug 40% offensive zone starts the way they do with Parayko. Maybe the Blues will have a different philosophy than Boston did, but Boston deployed Krug closer to how the Blues deploy Dunn.

Dunn was with Faulk about 30% of his ES shifts, and with one of Bortuzzo/Pietrangelo/Parayko about 60% of the time.

You're not feeding Bortuzzo OS zone starts, so that approach likely means a good deal more time with Faulk than Dunn ever had.

Can't say I love that pairing, but we're probably going to need something to work well that probably shouldn't on the surface, and that seems as likely a candidate as any.

Pretty limited on the options no matter what route we go, honestly. Not a lot in the way of quality plan Bs, which will also make the Blues relatively predictable and easy to game plan against come playoff time.

 

[Spektre]

What about Dunn for Buchnevich?

 

[bleedblue1223]

What about Dunn for Buchnevich?

I'd be down. Finding a middle 6 scorer on the younger side would be a good thing IMO.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

My big concern with buchnevich is the injuries.

 

[The Note]

Getting a winger with some goal scoring pop has to be priority one at this point.

 

[puckerdude10]

What about targeting Fla for a Right Shot D.

Dunn for Weegar as a base?

What about Dunn + Bozak + picks and prospects for Ekblad? Could also include a middle 6 winger like Sanford along with picks and prospects.

Just a couple of options to reshuffle the D and shore things up.

Krug - Parayko
Scandella - Weegar/Faulk
Mikkola-Weegar/Faulk

Krug - Ekblad
Scandella - Parayko
Mikkola - Faulk

Just a couple thoughts since Florida is stacked with right shooting D. They currently have Ekblad, Stralman, Weegar and Gudas for anyone not familiar.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

What about targeting Fla for a Right Shot D.

Dunn for Weegar as a base?

What about Dunn + Bozak + picks and prospects for Ekblad? Could also include a middle 6 winger like Sanford along with picks and prospects.

Just a couple of options to reshuffle the D and shore things up.

Krug - Parayko
Scandella - Weegar/Faulk
Mikkola-Weegar/Faulk

Krug - Ekblad
Scandella - Parayko
Mikkola - Faulk

Just a couple thoughts since Florida is stacked with right shooting D. They currently have Ekblad, Stralman, Weegar and Gudas for anyone not familiar.

Strahlman isn't good anymore, and Gudas is a bottom pairing guy, so I don't see them moving Ekblad/Weegar currently

 

[sfvega]

Ekblad would not be a good add. Very good defenseman, but the price to acquire him would be very, very high. We do not need to further mortgage our future for one guy given this team's makeup as a quasi-contender rn.