Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019 - Part VI

[MissouriMook]

The Reaves trade was more of a trade-up into the 1st round.

Reaves + 51st pick for Sundqvist and the 31st pick

I could see the Blues making a similar deal to get back into the first round in 2019. The other options are Petro and Schenn. I'm hoping both are re-signed but clarity on both players won't be had until after the draft. The draft is in June and ink on a new contract can't dry until July 1. Side note - the rule about not being able to extend until July 1 of the league year your contract is expiring needs to go or the draft needs to be after July 1.

Not going to worry about next season at this point but some big decisions lie ahead.

I would be shocked it Army doesn't know exactly where he stands with both before the first day of the draft. While you may not be able to sign an extension with a player until 12:01 on July 1, you can certainly reach an agreement as to what that contract looks like. He should know before June 21 what it is going to take for each of them to extend in both dollars and years, and if either of them is set on testing free agency in the summer of 2020. If either of them is unwilling to extend this summer, I hope he moves them at or before the draft.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I wonder what Kostin's value in trade really is. There are some red flags with his development, but with how the Rampage's season has gone its hard to read into his numbers there very much. Observers of the team (I only saw 2 games) have also had some concerns. (I'm not calling him a bust, just saying there is reason to be cautious with the possibility he hits his ceiling.)

If he really can be an effective power forward in the NHL, middle 6, then let him percolate and grow. But if the team can move him for a chance at a difference-maker type of pick then go for it. I'm a little worried he's a future Jaskin more than anything else.

But I'm not sure what other currency they have to trade to get into the 1st round otherwise. There aren't any roster players I expect to be getting traded, except for possibly Allen. (I actually think Allen and Binnington will be the tandem again next year, hopefully with Binnington still playing like this for an entire season and winning the Vezina.)

 

[Blueston]

I wonder what Kostin's value in trade really is. There are some red flags with his development, but with how the Rampage's season has gone its hard to read into his numbers there very much. Observers of the team (I only saw 2 games) have also had some concerns. (I'm not calling him a bust, just saying there is reason to be cautious with the possibility he hits his ceiling.)

If he really can be an effective power forward in the NHL, middle 6, then let him percolate and grow. But if the team can move him for a chance at a difference-maker type of pick then go for it. I'm a little worried he's a future Jaskin more than anything else.

But I'm not sure what other currency they have to trade to get into the 1st round otherwise. There aren't any roster players I expect to be getting traded, except for possibly Allen. (I actually think Allen and Binnington will be the tandem again next year, hopefully with Binnington still playing like this for an entire season and winning the Vezina.)

I think a Kostin deal is fairly likely. Seems like he isn't progressing and both sides are frustrated. And I know he is young and whatever, but if you want until he isn't then you have Schmaltz who has no value.

 

[TK 421]

Kostin is his own worst enemy, he insisted on this particular development route due to the stupid supposition that he'd be NHL bound quickly. He made the right call if he really wants to play NA hockey at the NHL level at some point..... but if he starts getting anxious when he should be concerned with putting it together as an AHLer then we could be in for another bad call by a kid who thinks he knows best. Pisses me off because I'd bet pros with lots of experience told him to go to juniors for at least one season to acclimate but nope.... he had to play against men right away. How'd that go Klim? Still really like this player but I have expressed concerns about whether he'll even be a NHLer. Was worth the chance imo though, high upside late 1st isn't a bad shot downfield when you've already got Robert Thomas in your back pocket. And Sundqvist.... wow was that a good trade.

 

[Blueston]

Kostin is his own worst enemy, he insisted on this particular development route due to the stupid supposition that he'd be NHL bound quickly. He made the right call if he really wants to play NA hockey at the NHL level at some point..... but if he starts getting anxious when he should be concerned with putting it together as an AHLer then we could be in for another bad call by a kid who thinks he knows best. Pisses me off because I'd bet pros with lots of experience told him to go to juniors for at least one season to acclimate but nope.... he had to play against men right away. How'd that go Klim? Still really like this player but I have expressed concerns about whether he'll even be a NHLer. Was worth the chance imo though, high upside late 1st isn't a bad shot downfield when you've already got Robert Thomas in your back pocket. And Sundqvist.... wow was that a good trade.

This seems right. I could well see him returning to Russia before he ever establishes himself as an NHL player. I think team like Caps who have multiple Russian stars might be good place to deal him.

 

[TK 421]

This seems right. I could well see him returning to Russia before he ever establishes himself as an NHL player. I think team like Caps who have multiple Russian stars might be good place to deal him.

Yeah I could easily see Russia as his 1st choice. For Klim it's all about playing at the top level and that would definitely be a great fit for him, he's no where close to NHL ready and he's delusional if he thinks he is. I don't fault the Blues here, from what I've read it was suggested he play junior and he insisted on AHL instead. So be it, but if that was the case all along then Klim was better off staying in Russia and playing 2 years there before coming over. He definitely was a guy that would have been offered pro minutes at 18 there. Total waste of time if he leaves and I'm not complaining as a Blues fan, I feel bad on behalf of the player who I think needed someone to just tell him, "Hey, we don't play teenagers in the NHL so understand you'll likely be playing 2-3 years of AHL if you choose to play there at 18 instead of juniors."
The Blues most likely pitched a CHL season then AHL with call up chances and he obviously said no.

 

[Stealth JD]

The Blues would control Kostin's rights indefinitely if he were to return to Russia, so not the end of the world if he decides he's had enough time in the AHL. We could always bring him back in the future if/when he's able to crack this roster. I'm not a big fan of keeping guys beyond more than about a year from when their peers start to make an impact; otherwise value is lost. That's why it's important for teams to continue to scrutinize guys just as much post-draft as they did leading up to the draft. Dumping Rundblad was a stroke of genius. So too was the Isle dumping of Reinhart. If a kid even gives you an inkling of something amiss, cash in before the market for him completely collapses.

 

[Blueston]

The Blues would control Kostin's rights indefinitely if he were to return to Russia, so not the end of the world if he decides he's had enough time in the AHL. We could always bring him back in the future if/when he's able to crack this roster. I'm not a big fan of keeping guys beyond more than about a year from when their peers start to make an impact; otherwise value is lost. That's why it's important for teams to continue to scrutinize guys just as much post-draft as they did leading up to the draft. Dumping Rundblad was a stroke of genius. So too was the Isle dumping of Reinhart. If a kid even gives you an inkling of something amiss, cash in before the market for him completely collapses.

Recent history upon guys returning from KHL is not good. Sobotka, Nikuschkin, Kovalchuk all came back shells of former selves. KHL isn't anywhere near as good of a league as it used to be.

But aside from that, I agree with what you said in 2nd part of your post. Once you realize player is leaning toward bust deal him before rest of league figures it out.

 

[shpongle falls]

Pretty sure Kostin was the #1 ranked European skater by central scouting his draft year and he's only 19 years old, no way do you give up on him yet. That said he better work his a$$ off this summer and be ready to make an impact next season.

 

[Blanick]

Pretty sure Kostin was the #1 ranked European skater by central scouting his draft year and he's only 19 years old, no way do you give up on him yet. That said he better work his a$$ off this summer and be ready to make an impact next season.

Ding ding ding. I think because this is his second year in the AHL people are forgetting that he is still so young. The only thing I am worried about with Kostin at this point is that he might get frustrated and run home back to Russia. The kid was a first round pick but he was the very last pick of the 1st round. He was always going to be a project.

 

[Blueston]

Ding ding ding. I think because this is his second year in the AHL people are forgetting that he is still so young. The only thing I am worried about with Kostin at this point is that he might get frustrated and run home back to Russia. The kid was a first round pick but he was the very last pick of the 1st round. He was always going to be a project.

At what point do we actually expect him to show improvement? I don’t mean stardom, but getting better rather than worse.

 

[Blanick]

At what point do we actually expect him to show improvement? I don’t mean stardom, but getting better rather than worse.

I don't know exactly when but I do know I am not labeling him as a bust as a 19 year old playing in the AHL. Yes this season has not been what I was hoping for. Two things to remember though. First, he was a late 1st pick who was always projected to be a project. I would not expect him to be a regular contributor at the NHL level until he is at least 21-22. Second, outside of the rare superstars, European players often take longer to learn the NA game. Hell we have two examples on our own team that didn't truly find there game until their mid 20s, Alexander Steen and Oskar Sundqvist. Hell Tarasenko is one of the rare superstars and he didn't even break into the NHL until he was 21 because and this was his own words from that time, "he didn't feel ready."

With Kostin it is all about patience. The fans, the management and Kostin himself need to be patient.

 

[Blueston]

I don't know exactly when but I do know I am not labeling him as a bust as a 19 year old playing in the AHL. Yes this season has not been what I was hoping for. Two things to remember though. First, he was a late 1st pick who was always projected to be a project. I would not expect him to be a regular contributor at the NHL level until he is at least 21-22. Second, outside of the rare superstars, European players often take longer to learn the NA game. Hell we have two examples on our own team that didn't truly find there game until their mid 20s, Alexander Steen and Oskar Sundqvist. Hell Tarasenko is one of the rare superstars and he didn't even break into the NHL until he was 21 because and this was his own words from that time, "he didn't feel ready."

With Kostin it is all about patience. The fans, the management and Kostin himself need to be patient.

I don’t think the criticism is that he isn’t ready for NHL at 19. Most aren’t. The issue is he is worse at 19 than he was at 18. When he struggled at 18 on team we didn’t control he got a pass. Was to be expected. But now he is year older, should be more acclimated to NA game, not coming off long injury, on team we control, everything set up for him to take step this year and he went backwards. Not saying he can’t overcome this. Maybe lightbulb gets lit and he busts out. But if you’re not concerned with his lack of progress I think you should be.

 

[LGB]

Kostin is his own worst enemy, he insisted on this particular development route due to the stupid supposition that he'd be NHL bound quickly. He made the right call if he really wants to play NA hockey at the NHL level at some point..... but if he starts getting anxious when he should be concerned with putting it together as an AHLer then we could be in for another bad call by a kid who thinks he knows best. Pisses me off because I'd bet pros with lots of experience told him to go to juniors for at least one season to acclimate but nope.... he had to play against men right away. How'd that go Klim? Still really like this player but I have expressed concerns about whether he'll even be a NHLer. Was worth the chance imo though, high upside late 1st isn't a bad shot downfield when you've already got Robert Thomas in your back pocket. And Sundqvist.... wow was that a good trade.

Very much agree with this, the vast majority of top Russian players were developed in Russia with a few spending a season or two in the CHL.

 

[TK 421]

Patience indeed, hopefully Kostin himself has some.

 

[BlueDream]

At what point do we actually expect him to show improvement? I don’t mean stardom, but getting better rather than worse.

Next season for sure. He will be 20, and no longer a teenager. He will have had 2 full years to adjust to NA. With his size and potential, there's really no excuse for him to not have a great season next year. Kyrou already did it at that age. So if Kostin again struggles, that would be telling and we'll have a better idea of who he is.

 

[Blueston]

Next season for sure. He will be 20, and no longer a teenager. He will have had 2 full years to adjust to NA. With his size and potential, there's really no excuse for him to not have a great season next year. Kyrou already did it at that age. So if Kostin again struggles, that would be telling and we'll have a better idea of who he is.

I get why lots of people think this, but if he was going to be a stud we would already know it by now. He may still be middle 6 winger but even that is in doubt. This is also why he should be traded over the summer. If he doesn't bust out next year he'll have no value.

 

[David Dennison]

I do question his offensive ceiling, but I think his speed/size/physical play/shot will play at the NHL level.

If a team offered a first for him, I would take it in a heartbeat. It's kind of difficult to see where he fits in here over the next two seasons, getting a pick would kick that can down the road.

 

[Dbrownss]

I get why lots of people think this, but if he was going to be a stud we would already know it by now. He may still be middle 6 winger but even that is in doubt. This is also why he should be traded over the summer. If he doesn't bust out next year he'll have no value.

No...... I wont bother going through "late bloomers" but writing a guy off because he hasnt torched the AHL at age 19 is ludicrous.

FFS people wanted to move Kyrou out because he didnt blow the NHL up.

Be patient, the Rampage is a hot mess. I wouldn't hold any prospects performance against them right now. Every preseason game I've seen from Kostin has been good. Will he be a 1st liner....probably not but he could he a Josh Anderson or Tom Wilson type. That is very valuable especially when our toughest player is Maroon.....

 

[Reality Czech]

I get why lots of people think this, but if he was going to be a stud we would already know it by now. He may still be middle 6 winger but even that is in doubt. This is also why he should be traded over the summer. If he doesn't bust out next year he'll have no value.

Are 31st overall picks usually "studs" less than two years after the draft? Maybe fans are putting unrealistic expectations on the guy. Sure maybe he would be scoring more points in junior but hopefully he's learned a lot during his ahl experience.

Definitely not the time to start worrying about the guy. At others have said, he was always supposed to be a project.

 

[Eldon Reid]

No...... I wont bother going through "late bloomers" but writing a guy off because he hasnt torched the AHL at age 19 is ludicrous.

FFS people wanted to move Kyrou out because he didnt blow the NHL up.

Be patient, the Rampage is a hot mess. I wouldn't hold any prospects performance against them right now. Every preseason game I've seen from Kostin has been good. Will he be a 1st liner....probably not but he could he a Josh Anderson or Tom Wilson type. That is very valuable especially when our toughest player is Maroon.....

Agreed 100%.

I mean go look at Rampage basic numbers. Never a good sign when 2 of your 3 top scorers are dman.

Plus we have kinda raided them this year. Binnington playing well, comes up. Other goalies haven't been good.

Kyrou when down there has been good, but only 47 games played (with all the coming back & forth between NHL & AHL) 43 pts.
Blais had 18 pts in 26 games. In NHL.
MacEachern had 16 pts in 32 games. In NHL.
Remember Schmaltz was looking good in AHL last year 31 games 23 pts? 28 games 5 assists this year is all he has.
Sanford had 6 pts in 7 games. In NHL.

It is just a hot mess down there right now.

 

[Blueston]

No...... I wont bother going through "late bloomers" but writing a guy off because he hasnt torched the AHL at age 19 is ludicrous.

FFS people wanted to move Kyrou out because he didnt blow the NHL up.

Be patient, the Rampage is a hot mess. I wouldn't hold any prospects performance against them right now. Every preseason game I've seen from Kostin has been good. Will he be a 1st liner....probably not but he could he a Josh Anderson or Tom Wilson type. That is very valuable especially when our toughest player is Maroon.....

The issue isn't that he's not a stud now. It's that he is regressing and has given no indication that he will be impact player. Not saying just dump him, but that if we could recoup value we should. Do you think Isles regret "giving up" on Griffin Reinhart after year or 2 to get pick they used on Barzal?

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I am NOT on the side of thinking it’s a good time to move Kostin.

He obviously went the wrong route, but I think next year has always really been the year in which we’ll see his potential truly show in the AHL. He’s been pretty damn good in the World Juniors against kid’s his own age, and it’s just taken him some time to get used to playing with men AND adjusting to the NA game.

He’ll be just fine.

 

[Dbrownss]

The issue isn't that he's not a stud now. It's that he is regressing and has given no indication that he will be impact player. Not saying just dump him, but that if we could recoup value we should. Do you think Isles regret "giving up" on Griffin Reinhart after year or 2 to get pick they used on Barzal?

Reinhart was 3/4yrs removed from his draft and had his cup of coffee in the NHL. He's an outlier because Peter Chirelli is a moron. I wont say for certain that no Oiler fan was happy with that trade....but from what I remember, that trade was terrible the second it was made.

The Blues have time to let him develope. We collectively bemoaned the usage of Thomas.....turns out Berube knows more then we do. I've heard a few reports that the coaching staff is teaching the kids how to play right and as of now there are no concerns with Kostin's potential.

Personally, my only concern is him not being patient. I hope the Blues stop spending every penny in FA. With how Barby, Blais and MacMac have stepped into the NHL, I hope the Blues leave the door open for the prospects. It's just a feeling, but internally developed guys seems to have an easier time buying in.

 

[Dbrownss]

Are 31st overall picks usually "studs" less than two years after the draft? Maybe fans are putting unrealistic expectations on the guy. Sure maybe he would be scoring more points in junior but hopefully he's learned a lot during his ahl experience.

Definitely not the time to start worrying about the guy. At others have said, he was always supposed to be a project.

If I had to guess it was the predraft hype and him falling to 31.

Hell look at Tolvenen...supposed to be the next Tarasenko or better.......yea...bout that.