Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019 - Part VI

[CaliforniaBlues310]

People around here have said he will be exempt, but he will have completed 4 pro seasons by then. I think the 18y.o. year may not count but that would still put him at 3 years and we would have to protect him.

18 and 19 don’t count because he hasn’t played in the NHL yet. He’ll be exempt.

 

[Dbrownss]

No I don't think he'd necessarily be NHL ready (personal opinion is absolutely not). However it would have definitely been the optimal development route to at least play one year of junior to get acclimated and establish himself against his own age group before playing pro.

I'd lean toward not having to play in that mess last year would have had a bigger impact

 

[TK 421]

I'd lean toward not having to play in that mess last year would have had a bigger impact

No doubt but even in those types of circumstances he wasn't even deserving of the ice time in that league even if it had been available to him. There just isn't a strong argument to be made for AHL at 18. 19 sure, he's had a full season of junior at that point so maybe he's ready but at least he has that initial season to learn the style and pace of NA play before trying to play against NA pros. Personally I think he was always a 3+ year project and like you I'm prepared to wait if he is. If he bolts he bolts and like you pointed out his value isn't going to be high to other teams anyway.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

How much would you be willing to pay Taylor Hall in Free Agency? I’m not sure he really wants to stay in Jersey...

 

[Majorityof1]

How much would you be willing to pay Taylor Hall in Free Agency? I’m not sure he really wants to stay in Jersey...

He still has a year after this one, so we'd have to trade assets as well. Even with an expiring contract that would be expensive.

I'd definitely pay the $6M he is making now for the one season. I would go so far as 6 x $8M for his next deal. He probably wants 7 or 8 x $9.5-10M for his next deal and I don't go that high. I don't think he is worth that because he is a tad inconsistent offensively. Half his seasons are well over a Point/gm, and half are around .7-8 P/gm, roughly a 60-65 point pace. He seems fairly injury prone, averaging 62 games a season over his career. He isn't that great defensively, not bad, but not upper echelon where you can hang a $9M contract on his 2-way play like Stone. And as his game relies so much on speed, he may start to decline as he gets older/injuries add up, so I don't want to take it to 35-36 yo on an 7-8 year deal.

So I don't want to winning a bidding war for him, either in UFA or trade. But man, a line of Hall-ROR-Tarasenko would be killer while they are still in their primes.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

If he makes it to UFA, I definitely expect Army to be interested. We did have a deal for him before Shatty nixed an extension in Edmonton.

 

[Celtic Note]

On Kostin, I see a guy with tools but not a great box. I wouldn’t have heartburn if we moved him, depending on the return

 

[Dbrownss]

On Kostin, I see a guy with tool but not a great box. I wouldn’t have heartburn if we moved him, depending on the return

Doesn't that apply to just about everyone though?

 

[Saint Loser]

I am ready to dump Kostin.

 

[Celtic Note]

Doesn't that apply to just about everyone though?

To some degree, but I would be more heavily exploring those options over a player like Kyrou.

Let’s put it this way, I would be very comfortable taking a 1st for him and the 2 year difference in player development. If that first comes at a time where the prospects are underwhelming then I would probably just hold onto him. If there were a player with proximate upside to Kostin, then I would make the trade.

 

[brokeu91]

I am ready to dump Kostin.

Sometimes power forwards need a bit more time to get ready. I don't think we should give up on him quite so quickly.

 

[542365]

I'm not quite ready to give up on Kostin either. If he was playing in the OHL and putting up 1.5 points per game(which he likely would be given his size and skill and how well he does against his peers) we'd all be thrilled. He chose the more difficult route of playing in the AHL, and while he hasn't progressed hardly at all, he's still just 19 years old and has an undeniably great set of skills. He has a long way to go, but the upside is enough that I think it's worth being patient. I wouldn't flip him for a first unless it's a guy we absolutely love that has fallen in the draft. If Bill Army likes the kid enough then go for it, but otherwise I'd like to see Klim back in San Antonio next year.

 

[Dbrownss]

I am ready to dump Kostin.

He's 19

To some degree, but I would be more heavily exploring those options over a player like Kyrou.

Let’s put it this way, I would be very comfortable taking a 1st for him and the 2 year difference in player development. If that first comes at a time where the prospects are underwhelming then I would probably just hold onto him. If there were a player with proximate upside to Kostin, then I would make the trade.

So....move Kostin for someone who could become what Kostin could become? I just dont get this. Yes there are outlier cases where you can move a prospect for a pick but most times teams just like to pick their own guy, And this scenario isnt likely.

I'd move Kostin for a now player but that would mess with the expansion draft, so that wouldnt be the best idea

 

[Celtic Note]

He's 19
So....move Kostin for someone who could become what Kostin could become? I just dont get this. Yes there are outlier cases where you can move a prospect for a pick but most times teams just like to pick their own guy, And this scenario isnt likely.

I'd move Kostin for a now player but that would mess with the expansion draft, so that wouldnt be the best idea

I think Kostin reaching his ceiling is highly unlikely. I am not willing to bet that he reaches it. If a similar upside player is available, I would rather take that risk.

I have a similar stance on Kostin that I did with Rattie. If the opportunity comes to make a move before others see the holes, them move him for something comparable. That’s not to say the opportunity will present itself. I am just very open to that opportunity.

 

[Celtic Note]

i am very confident that Kostin will not become the Kostin people envision. I think Kostin reaching his ceiling is highly unlikely. I am not willing to bet that he reaches it. If a similar upside player is available, I would rather take that risk.

I have a similar stance on Kostin that I did with Rattie. If the opportunity comes to make a move before others see the holes, them move him for something comparable. If you wait too long you might not end up with much or anything. That’s not to say the opportunity will present itself. I am just very open to that opportunity.

 

[Dbrownss]

I think Kostin reaching his ceiling is highly unlikely. I am not willing to bet that he reaches it. If a similar upside player is available, I would rather take that risk.

I have a similar stance on Kostin that I did with Rattie. If the opportunity comes to make a move before others see the holes, them move him for something comparable. That’s not to say the opportunity will present itself. I am just very open to that opportunity.

What holes do you see? From what I've read, its dedication to the NA playstyle. His skillset is good, and he doesnt like IQ. Could be how he uses it, but again he's young. Rattie could fire the puck and that's about it. He had quite a few more holes in his abilities.


For me it's way too early to close the book on a 19yr old import that went straight to the AHL as a 18yr old. To me his floor is Maroon but a much better skillset.


Also....if we see the holes, it's likely a team that is scouting him sees the holes too. It's possible they take the risk and think they can develop him, but it's not something I'd bank on

 

[Celtic Note]

What holes do you see? From what I've read, its dedication to the NA playstyle. His skillset is good, and he doesnt like IQ. Could be how he uses it, but again he's young. Rattie could fire the puck and that's about it. He had quite a few more holes in his abilities.


For me it's way too early to close the book on a 19yr old import that went straight to the AHL as a 18yr old. To me his floor is Maroon but a much better skillset.


Also....if we see the holes, it's likely a team that is scouting him sees the holes too. It's possible they take the risk and think they can develop him, but it's not something I'd bank on

His holes seem to be the following:
- Doesn’t use teammates well (does he ever really setup plays?)
- only seems to create his own plays off the odd man rush
-turns over pucks frequently
-has to have teammates feed him to score
-doesn’t position himself well to win 50-50 pucks
-doesn’t utilize his speed well (more of a straight line skater, than an agile one too)

These aren’t the only ones, but they are the ones off the top of my head.


Rattle could do more than fire the puck, especially in juniors and the AHL. But he certainly had his holes too.

 

[Dbrownss]

His holes seem to be the following:
- Doesn’t use teammates well (does he ever really setup plays?)
- only seems to create his own plays off the odd man rush
-turns over pucks frequently
-has to have teammates feed him to score
-doesn’t position himself well to win 50-50 pucks
-doesn’t utilize his speed well (more of a straight line skater, than an agile one too)

These aren’t the only ones, but they are the ones off the top of my head.


Rattle could do more than fire the puck, especially in juniors and the AHL. But he certainly had his holes too.

I've seen him set up good plays before but I've always thought of him as a shooter with how good his shot is. Your concerns are valid but at his age, joining the AHL at 18 straight out of Russia compounded by an injury riddled season....... there's too many factors for me to close the book on a 19yr old. My concern would be frustration and him going back to the KHL.

I still see a PW that is capable of scoring goals. Unless it's a Runblad situation, I wouldn't have much interest in a pick, Especially a realistic one. I'd bet no one would offer a 1st. More likely a 2nd/3rd, and for that....no way

 

[Oberyn]

I'm in the same boat as Celtic. If we were able to pull off a Rundblad type trade with Kostin, I'd pull the trigger on that. I just haven't been enthused with his play at all from my own viewings.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I can’t wait until I get give a Kostin to Seattle to select Barbashev or Sundqvist and then see it turn into a Minnesota situation in which they gave up Tuch to have Vegas take Haula.

Regardless, adding Kostin into a trade is a realistic scenario that could be beneficial. Giving up on him and dumping him for the highest pick available would be a very very poor decision. I’ve always seen his ceiling as a Nino Niedderreiter type of player which would look great in the place of Maroon with Bozak and Thomas right now.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm in the same boat as Celtic. If we were able to pull off a Rundblad type trade with Kostin, I'd pull the trigger on that. I just haven't been enthused with his play at all from my own viewings.

That's a very specific situational trade. A GM has to love the prospect....and be a f***ing moron....see Chirelli trading the Barzal pick for what's his name. That was brutal the second it was announced. I doubt many would turn down a 10-15 pick for Kostin, but the chances of that happening are very very slim

 

[Celtic Note]

I can’t wait until I get give a Kostin to Seattle to select Barbashev or Sundqvist and then see it turn into a Minnesota situation in which they gave up Tuch to have Vegas take Haula.

Regardless, adding Kostin into a trade is a realistic scenario that could be beneficial. Giving up on him and dumping him for the highest pick available would be a very very poor decision. I’ve always seen his ceiling as a Nino Niedderreiter type of player which would look great in the place of Maroon with Bozak and Thomas right now.

I am generally not onboard with sending a player to an expansion team to take another player. I am sure it could make sense in the rare case.

 

[Celtic Note]

That's a very specific situational trade. A GM has to love the prospect....and be a ****ing moron....see Chirelli trading the Barzal pick for what's his name. That was brutal the second it was announced. I doubt many would turn down a 10-15 pick for Kostin, but the chances of that happening are very very slim

I would like take a top 20 pick for him or someone who slipped through the cracks.

All it takes is one GM out of 30.

 

[Dbrownss]

I would like take a top 20 pick for him or someone who slipped through the cracks.

All it takes is one GM out of 30.

I'm just saying it's not very likely to happen

 

[BleedBlue14]

I am generally not onboard with sending a player to an expansion team to take another player. I am sure it could make sense in the rare case.

I think the only situation in which it would make sense for us would be in a situation where we go all in again this offseason and we can pay to ensure that Steen/Bozak or Allen are taken. Names are interchangeable but I think you can see what I am meaning.