Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part VI

[BlueDream]

No point in trading Fabbri now, he's cheap depth.

Next season though is when he really needs to turn it on or he could very well find himself as a "needs a change of scenery" type player. We have a lot of guys in the AHL that will again be pushing for a spot next year. With no improvement he could get passed up.

 

[TruBlu]

Fabbri should be traded while he still has value.

 

[Blueston]

Schenn-O'Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Bozak-Perron
Sanford-Sundqvist-Steen
MacEachern/ Maroon -Barbashev -Thomas

Just don’t like Bozak as #2 C at all. I think Schenn will have to be moved back there soon

Bozak will be fine with Perron and Schwartz as long as JS kills a chicken or whatever he needs to do to lift his curse. Don't want to move Schenn off that #1 line.

 

[Blueston]

I've been saying this for the last three seasons when someone brings up the idea that the team in general (and the defense in particular) plays better in front of [insert goalie here] than they do in front of Allen.

Of course they do.

The defensemen know that [insert goalie here] is going to stay between the pipes and not slide out of position, so they don't have to play goalie and D at the same time, so they can focus on their game.

This is really good point. You look at goals yesterday and Petro was out of position because he didn't trust Allen to be in right place and then Edmondson was out of position trying to cover for Petro and puck ends up in back of net.

 

[Frenzy31]

Would Ottawa consider him as a center piece for Stone? Don’t know how much value he has

 

[Dbrownss]

Would Ottawa consider him as a center piece for Stone? Don’t know how much value he has

No.

If Fabbri goes to Ottawa, we'd be looking to get Dzingle

 

[Brian39]

Fabbri should be traded while he still has value.

I think that ship sailed on his 2nd knee injury.

No one was offering real value for Fabbri prior to his return this year and his play so far hasn't moved the needle on that. His value has very likely been pretty stagnant over the last year as a pot sweetener that compliments the primary asset you are giving up in a trade. Since his 2nd knee injury, I'd be surprised if he has had any more value than Sanford had in the Shatty deal.

Unless you are comfortable losing him as that type of boost to a trade package, then it makes more sense to keep him and hope for the best. I think it makes more sense to keep him as cheap depth with upside than move him at that value.

 

[CoverYour5]

Schenn O'Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Thomas Perron
Sanford Bozak Steen
Barbashev Sundqvist Mac/Maroon

I realize it's unlikely that Mac stays in over Maroon and even moreso that Berube feels comfortable letting Thomas anchor the 2nd line, but if there were a time to give him a look it is now, the kid is making things happen. Him and DP might be able get Schwartz out of his funk and become a dangerous two way scoring line.

This is exactly what I want to see.

With Sanford/Maroon/MakMac/Fabbri being the moving parts for those 2 spots.

 

[The Note in MI]

I think once Perron returns the lines we see that don’t upset the Apple cart too much look like:

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron
Sanford Sundquist Steen
Mac/Maroon Barbashev Thomas

I think our 3rd line would greatly benefit from a bit more skill in Thomas but Steen provides way more defensive coverage.

I think it will be difficult to find the right dynamics with Perron coming back. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if he fared better with Sanford and Sundquist than with Bozak and Steen. Our line of Schwartz Bozak and Steen has basically been Schwartz - Body - Body.

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Steen
Sanford Sundquist Perron
MacEachern Barbashev Thomas

When I make these lines I can’t help but think that there are three players I don’t know what to do with. Steen Bozak and Maroon. Ultimately Steen and Bozak probably fit into the top 6 better than say Thomas because they can be relied on in all situations to play tight defense. Glaringly with Schenn on line 1 our second line Center is really a 3rd line center and I think is dragging down a combo of Schwartz and Perron.

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz —— Perron
Looks fantastic until you insert Bozak

(Just look at it!)

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron

Thomas isn’t ready for those duties yet. And I like Sundquist as 3C he’s been dynamic and Sanford is playing fantastic. That pretty much leaves us with Bozak as the 2C which is suboptimal.

I think we are stuck with him until Thomas matures into a bonafide 2C which is probably not until this time next year.

This is all without the inclusion of Fabbri who is the biggest question mark of this team right now.

 

[Dbrownss]

I think we'll see Thomas shift there. He was there when Bozak was out....then Thomas got hurt. He's on the PP1 and I've seen him find his way out there with top 6 guys.

 

[Spektre]

I think once Perron returns the lines we see that don’t upset the Apple cart too much look like:

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron
Sanford Sundquist Steen
Mac/Maroon Barbashev Thomas

I think our 3rd line would greatly benefit from a bit more skill in Thomas but Steen provides way more defensive coverage.

I think it will be difficult to find the right dynamics with Perron coming back. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if he fared better with Sanford and Sundquist than with Bozak and Steen. Our line of Schwartz Bozak and Steen has basically been Schwartz - Body - Body.

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Steen
Sanford Sundquist Perron
MacEachern Barbashev Thomas

When I make these lines I can’t help but think that there are three players I don’t know what to do with. Steen Bozak and Maroon. Ultimately Steen and Bozak probably fit into the top 6 better than say Thomas because they can be relied on in all situations to play tight defense. Glaringly with Schenn on line 1 our second line Center is really a 3rd line center and I think is dragging down a combo of Schwartz and Perron.

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz —— Perron
Looks fantastic until you insert Bozak

(Just look at it!)

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron

Thomas isn’t ready for those duties yet. And I like Sundquist as 3C he’s been dynamic and Sanford is playing fantastic. That pretty much leaves us with Bozak as the 2C which is suboptimal.

I think we are stuck with him until Thomas matures into a bonafide 2C which is probably not until this time next year.

This is all without the inclusion of Fabbri who is the biggest question mark of this team right now.

Thomas is the one that prevented a short handed goal yesterday by back checking. He then brought the puck up the wing and made the pass to Pietrangelo which resulted in the PP goal. I don’t see how anyone wouldn’t think he’s ready to play 2C. I’d argue Thomas getting 2C minutes gives the team a better chance at wins than if he plays 4th line RW

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Last time I was able to check Blues were 6th place, now 3 weeks later they are 4th place and a 6 game winning streak? Maybe I should stay away from the internet more.

 

[Default]

I'm glad Fabbri is really putting up a career high point total, he's been a beast this season. Go fabs.

 

[Brockon]

Watching the game yesterday. I was Allen get beat on a wrap around because of his push off. I watched his body language and the team over the rest of the game and it was very obvious to me that they lost faith in him and started to over compensate.

I think everyone on that ice gets tight when he lets in a bad goal. Including him. Which leads to more defensive errors.

Did you happen to notice JBo's stick in between Allen's legs on the goal in question? I didn't until I watched through the game replay last night. I think that definitely affects his ability to slide across the crease and beat the wrap around.

I know Allen played below expectations, but Nashville also deserves credit for having that degree of pushback.

 

[The Note in MI]

Thomas is the one that prevented a short handed goal yesterday by back checking. He then brought the puck up the wing and made the pass to Pietrangelo which resulted in the PP goal. I don’t see how anyone wouldn’t think he’s ready to play 2C. I’d argue Thomas getting 2C minutes gives the team a better chance at wins than if he plays 4th line RW

Thomas is getting 9-10 min a night. With now PP1. Chief seems to agree with me he’s not ready for 16 min of heavy lifting.

 

[Brockon]

This is really good point. You look at goals yesterday and Petro was out of position because he didn't trust Allen to be in right place and then Edmondson was out of position trying to cover for Petro and puck ends up in back of net.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned once, is the role JBo's stick being in between Allen's legs, and causing his 2nd push attempting to get to the other post to be slowed when it catches JBo's stick rather than ice.

Of course if Allen wasn't so far off to the one side this isn't as big of a problem, but Allen's poor positioning isn't helped when his own Dman interferes with his ability to move across the crease.

@Frenzy31 @MissouriMook

 

[David Dennison]

Thomas is getting 9-10 min a night. With now PP1. Chief seems to agree with me he’s not ready for 16 min of heavy lifting.

Yeah, how many other playoff teams have a 18-19 year old getting top 6 minutes? Montreal with Kotkaniemi and Svechnikov in Carolina are the only two I see that are close (both are 14-15 min range) and those are top 3 picks on teams with less depth. I don't think relying on a 19 year old is a great recipe for success over the course of a season and I'm not sure Thomas is 'special' enough to be an exception to the rule.

 

[Spektre]

This is really good point. You look at goals yesterday and Petro was out of position because he didn't trust Allen to be in right place and then Edmondson was out of position trying to cover for Petro and puck ends up in back of net.

I won’t argue that it’s possible the D are trying to do too much when Allen plays. The one Nashville goal never happens yesterday if Pietrangelo didn’t turn the puck over along the left boards. He was caught from behind along the boards and stripped of the puck. Nashville kept the puck in the zone and 15-20 seconds later it’s in the back of the net.

 

[Dbrownss]

Yeah, how many other playoff teams have a 18-19 year old getting top 6 minutes? Montreal with Kotkaniemi and Svechnikov in Carolina are the only two I see that are close (both are 14-15 min range) and those are top 3 picks on teams with less depth. I don't think relying on a 19 year old is a great recipe for success over the course of a season and I'm not sure Thomas is 'special' enough to be an exception to the rule.

Petterson.

I watch Thomas and I see a guy who generates offense. Again, they put him in that position prior to his injury when they could have put Barbs or Sunny up there.

 

[TK 421]

I definitely recall feeling like we had more offense generated from the top 6 with Thomas in it. Granted it wasn't a large sample size but I remember getting that distinct feeling. I have a tendency to not trust extremely young players with big minutes and I trust Chief to determine what's best but I could going either way depending on how the lines shake out once DP gets back.

 

[simon IC]

I think once Perron returns the lines we see that don’t upset the Apple cart too much look like:

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron
Sanford Sundquist Steen
Mac/Maroon Barbashev Thomas

I think our 3rd line would greatly benefit from a bit more skill in Thomas but Steen provides way more defensive coverage.

I think it will be difficult to find the right dynamics with Perron coming back. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if he fared better with Sanford and Sundquist than with Bozak and Steen. Our line of Schwartz Bozak and Steen has basically been Schwartz - Body - Body.

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Steen
Sanford Sundquist Perron
MacEachern Barbashev Thomas

When I make these lines I can’t help but think that there are three players I don’t know what to do with. Steen Bozak and Maroon. Ultimately Steen and Bozak probably fit into the top 6 better than say Thomas because they can be relied on in all situations to play tight defense. Glaringly with Schenn on line 1 our second line Center is really a 3rd line center and I think is dragging down a combo of Schwartz and Perron.

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz —— Perron
Looks fantastic until you insert Bozak

(Just look at it!)

Schenn O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron

Thomas isn’t ready for those duties yet. And I like Sundquist as 3C he’s been dynamic and Sanford is playing fantastic. That pretty much leaves us with Bozak as the 2C which is suboptimal.

I think we are stuck with him until Thomas matures into a bonafide 2C which is probably not until this time next year.

This is all without the inclusion of Fabbri who is the biggest question mark of this team right now.

I agree with most of what you say, but a minor quibble I have is that Bozak can't play tight defense. I think Thomas should be at least be given a look at 2C.

 

[Saint Loser]

Last time I was able to check Blues were 6th place, now 3 weeks later they are 4th place and a 6 game winning streak? Maybe I should stay away from the internet more.

Go away.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

Can somebody take a stab at the lines when Perron returns?

Perron-O'Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Thomas-Schenn
Steen-Bozak-Barbashev/Fabbri
Sanford-Sundqvist-Maroon

I want to see Perron reunited with O’Rielly and a resurgent Tank. Perron chemistry with ROR was great earlier this year and he has always played his best hockey on his off wing.

As far as Thomas if your going to count on him being a C long term sooner or later he has to sink or swim. He can alternate draws with Schenn or you can just play him on the wing.

 

[LGB]

Probably partially a result of all his minutes so far coinciding with our best stretch of hockey all season, but still impressive. Also Chris Butler being our 2nd highest rated player is interesting.
Edit: Actually Gunnarson is 2nd and he's 3rd but still.

 

[The Note]

When Perron gets back I wouldn’t mind seeing something a top 6 of:
Schwartz-ROR-Tarasenko
Perron-Thomas -Schenn

Schwartz and Tarasenko have largely played well together throughout their careers and just about everyone who has played with ROR this year has been better. If you can get Schwartz going that is a tremendous first line. The second line is more of a pipe dream as I don’t think they’ll bump Thomas up there as of now. You could slide Schenn over for face offs or in the defensive zone if you like but I’d like to see Thomas get some more opportunities even strength. But, that’s just something I wouldn’t mind them trying out. I think we’ll see Perron back with ROR and Schenn moved back with Schwartz in all reality though.