Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part VI

[Dbrownss]

The fact that MecMac is playing NHL minutes is glorious.

 

[Dbrownss]

Does keeping one of Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson or both really change the fate of this season? I mean if a good enough offer comes along, does making that move even make much of a difference?

Moreover, why is Maroon and/or Machachern (I mispelled that) playing over Fabbri? I'd rather see Fabbri acclimate his game to the level it once was than see Maroon drag everyone down.

I wont miss Maroon but I wouldn't mess with what's working even though I personally would send him packing asap. If he's a positive influence in the locker room, then whatever.

This is a case where I'd have to know the mood of the locker room before making a decision on Maroon

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I'm fine with holding onto Bouwmeester for the rest of the year. He's been very good the last couple of months. If someone ponies up a second for Gunnarsson I'd probably take that. But that's in part because I really think we need to start giving Dunn more minutes to see what if he can handle it.

 

[Shwabeal]

I'm fine with holding onto Bouwmeester for the rest of the year. He's been very good the last couple of months. If someone ponies up a second for Gunnarsson I'd probably take that. But that's in part because I really think we need to start giving Dunn more minutes to see what if he can handle it.

Agree with this, especially the Dunn part. Going into next year, they need to know what kind of role he can handle. It directly influences what type of LHD they go after in the offseason. I think no matter what, a top pair guy, even if it's someone at the lower end of that spectrum, to pair with Petro, will be the target. But, if Dunn shows he can handle bigger minutes, he may be someone that you can pair with Petro and just go after a solid middle pairing guy with the ability to play up in tougher defensive situations.

I love Eddy but, I think if Dunn shows he can play a larger defensive role, this team would be really well suited to go after someone that can relegate him to 3rd pairing and PK duty.

 

[Xerloris]

If Jbo and especially BoomBoom want to stay at reasonable prices I would be fine with it. It makes me wonder how badly Jbo's hip must have been bothering him to almost cripple his game play for so long ( even previous to this season ).

 

[BleedBlue14]

Considering last season we were down to the wire on about our 9th defenseman. I would rather keep everybody than add a mid/late draft pick. If it means losing both to free agency and potentially healthy scratching a rotation of Gunnar and Bortuzzo I’m completely fine with that. I just don’t see any options in the AHL that I am comfortable calling up for a stretch run in a situation where we need to win.

If I’m moving anybody it’s Maroon or Steen. I’m not sure of the locker room dynamic but i personally see those two as the most expendable at this point. Allen is Allen. Binnington we will at least need somebody who has more experience than 10 NHL games. Although if we get a good offer for him you have to consider it, although I’d like Binner to have a bit more of a track record.

 

[BleedBlue14]

If Jbo and especially BoomBoom want to stay at reasonable prices I would be fine with it. It makes me wonder how badly Jbo's hip must have been bothering him to almost cripple his game play for so long ( even previous to this season ).

I think a lot of it was him just not being used to the pace of the game. Not being in a routine more or less. Personally I think that’s a lot of the problem with Fabbs. Fabbs rolls are visibly still there. He’s just doesn’t seem to be in the flow of the game if that makes sense.

 

[Frenzy31]

We need a goal scorer to do any damage. Maybe they is Perron, but our second line is shooting blanks. I would really like to see what Fabbri or Thomas would do on that line, but we need one more shooter.

 

[Brian39]

If Jbo and especially BoomBoom want to stay at reasonable prices I would be fine with it. It makes me wonder how badly Jbo's hip must have been bothering him to almost cripple his game play for so long ( even previous to this season ).

Steen and Schenn both gave quotes last year about how crazy it was that J-Bo was able to gut out his injury as long as he did. Schenn described it as "insane" and that he was "basically playing on one leg." This was the quote from Steen: “We knew he was hurting...I don’t think it’s hard to understand how bad the pain was. What he did was extremely impressive and obviously as a group we’re grateful that he gave as what he had.”

Those are two veterans who have been around the block and seen tons of injuries. It is clear to me that they watched him deal with a ton of actual pain behind the scenes beyond what we see on the ice. The fact that they both went out of their way to talk about his pain tolerance tells me that his hip was significantly limiting him.

I didn't expect this level of turnaround and I'm not sure that it is sustainable, but his skating looks drastically better than it did.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I didn't expect this level of turnaround and I'm not sure that it is sustainable, but his skating looks drastically better than it did.

Given how large of a role skating plays in his game, it’s not all that surprising to me that he started playing more effective now that he’s skating better.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Steen and Schenn both gave quotes last year about how crazy it was that J-Bo was able to gut out his injury as long as he did. Schenn described it as "insane" and that he was "basically playing on one leg." This was the quote from Steen: “We knew he was hurting...I don’t think it’s hard to understand how bad the pain was. What he did was extremely impressive and obviously as a group we’re grateful that he gave as what he had.”

Those are two veterans who have been around the block and seen tons of injuries. It is clear to me that they watched him deal with a ton of actual pain behind the scenes beyond what we see on the ice. The fact that they both went out of their way to talk about his pain tolerance tells me that his hip was significantly limited him.

I didn't expect this level of turnaround and I'm not sure that it is sustainable, but his skating looks drastically better than it did.

If that's really the case, I think the Blues should be re-signing Bouwmeester to a reasonable term contract. He still has some gas in the tank. Not to a top pairing contract, even though at the moment that's how well he's playing. But not just let him walk if you can come to an agreement.

 

[Stealth JD]

i have no problem with bringing back one of the Gunnarmeester twins, provided it's not for a nickel more than $3.oM/yr. but even that is a steep price for what you hope would be a solid #6/7 D-man. Fortunately Eddy and Dunn aren't breaking the bank any time soon.

 

[Brian39]

i have no problem with bringing back one of the Gunnarmeester twins, provided it's not for a nickel more than $3.oM/yr. but even that is a steep price for what you hope would be a solid #6/7 D-man. Fortunately Eddy and Dunn aren't breaking the bank any time soon.

I we bring back Bouw, it is absolutely not on the hope of him being a solid #6/7 D man. He's been the team's best LHD for 2+ months now and has the type of resume and history that makes it reasonable to believe that his bad year and a half was injury related. If you bring back Bouw, it is to be a top 4 LHD that potentially becomes the backbone of the 3rd pairing if Eddy rounds back into form and Dunn continues to develop as we hope he does.

 

[Stealth JD]

I we bring back Bouw, it is absolutely not on the hope of him being a solid #6/7 D man. He's been the team's best LHD for 2+ months now and has the type of resume and history that makes it reasonable to believe that his bad year and a half was injury related. If you bring back Bouw, it is to be a top 4 LHD that potentially becomes the backbone of the 3rd pairing if Eddy rounds back into form and Dunn continues to develop as we hope he does.

I'm thinking it would end up a 2-year deal, as there's simply no reason for either to accept 1-year when they can certainly get a longer-term in UFA. By the end of that contract, you'd hope that Dunn and Eddy have established themselves a bit more, and perhaps by then Mikkola or Walman are knocking on the door. I agree that both of the UFA d-men have both been playing like top-4 players this year. But you can't expect that moving forward, and you can't pay them like top-4 guys if you're ultimately trying to slide them down the depth chart. If you pay Bouw say $9M over 2-years, you're basically committing to him as a top-4 guy because you won't be able to afford anyone better. I like Slappy's play lately...but I'd like it a lot more at Gunnarsson money.

 

[Brian39]

I'm thinking it would end up a 2-year deal, as there's simply no reason for either to accept 1-year when they can certainly get a longer-term in UFA. By the end of that contract, you'd hope that Dunn and Eddy have established themselves a bit more, and perhaps by then Mikkola or Walman are knocking on the door. I agree that both of the UFA d-men have both been playing like top-4 players this year. But you can't expect that moving forward, and you can't pay them like top-4 guys if you're ultimately trying to slide them down the depth chart. If you pay Bouw say $9M over 2-years, you're basically committing to him as a top-4 guy because you won't be able to afford anyone better. I like Slappy's play lately...but I'd like it a lot more at Gunnarsson money.

No arguments. My point was just that even by the end of year 2, the expectation is that he would be either the #4 or #5 guy and would only be #6/7 if every prospect develops perfectly and we have a comedy of riches. He wouldn't be getting signed to be a the 6/7 D. I'd probably do $4.5 AAV on a 1 year deal for Bouw and would be willing to offer 2 years if the AAV could be kept below $4 mil. Ed is going to be substantially cheaper than we all though for the next couple years and we don't know Petro's future. I'm willing to eat a somewhat uncomfortable cap hit on Bouw to avoid the risk of our blue line turning into a big problem.

With all that said, I'm pretty confident that the Bouw we're seeing now is much, much closer to the next 2 years of Bouw's career than the one we saw the 15 months before December. Watching him skate today, I'm confident that his hip was still an issue at the start of the year. His stride looks a lot better and his ability to turn backwards to forwards is vastly better than it was 3 months ago. I understand not wanting to give him those types of contracts if you aren't as confident that his struggles were injury related.

 

[TK 421]

I've loved Bo's play over the last couple months but it's risky giving him even 2 years of extension. He's 35 rn and injuries tend to pile up quicker on guys in that age range. He's already missed a ton of time over the last couple seasons and played hurt through a bunch more games. What a warrior and what a career but I'd turn the page and look to fill his minutes with a younger veteran.

 

[BlueDream]

I am getting a kick out of everyone wanting a 2-year extension for Bouwmeester. He didn’t even look that good in the 2 seasons prior to this one, and now after playing well for a few months we are signing him to a multi-year deal that will take him to age 37? Why?

Look, I agree that he’s been real solid for us lately. But he still has no puck skills and is a black hole in the offensive zone.

I’m fine bringing back Gunnarsson for 2 years since he’s younger but that’s about it.

It’s all fine and dandy that Bouwmeester is healthy now. What if he gets hurt again? Then we are back to square one.

 

[tfriede2]

Definitely no multi-year deal for JBo, but I’d be fine with a one year deal up to 3 mil. I’d also be fine bringing gunnarsson back. The Blues don't have anyone internally to replace either next year.

 

[Xerloris]

I am getting a kick out of everyone wanting a 2-year extension for Bouwmeester. He didn’t even look that good in the 2 seasons prior to this one, and now after playing well for a few months we are signing him to a multi-year deal that will take him to age 37? Why?

Look, I agree that he’s been real solid for us lately. But he still has no puck skills and is a black hole in the offensive zone.

I’m fine bringing back Gunnarsson for 2 years since he’s younger but that’s about it.

It’s all fine and dandy that Bouwmeester is healthy now. What if he gets hurt again? Then we are back to square one.

We knew he was playing with nagging injuries for a long time but we're all under the assumption that if an injury was so bad that it would make a player completely inept that the teams doctors would take him out. Apparently we are wrong.

What if anyone gets hurt? Jbo had an ironman streak of around 800 games. He's not injury prone in his career, it's just that he had one serious injury to a part of the body that severely affected one of his best assets which is skating ability.

 

[MissouriMook]

One of the things that struck me at the game on Thursday was how wonderfully we were cycling the puck 5 on 5 because everyone was moving, and yet the power play is so poor, in part, because we stop moving for the most part and become so much easier to defend. As much as I hate our scheme in general, it would be so much more effective if we kept all 5 guys moving at all times.

 

[MissouriMook]

We knew he was playing with nagging injuries for a long time but we're all under the assumption that if an injury was so bad that it would make a player completely inept that the teams doctors would take him out. Apparently we are wrong.

What if anyone gets hurt? Jbo had an ironman streak of around 800 games. He's not injury prone in his career, it's just that he had one serious injury to a part of the body that severely affected one of his best assets which is skating ability.

Since JBo is 35, whether it was a one or two year deal you could have a relatively low base and give him significant games played bonuses. Lowers the cap risk in the event of injury.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

One of the things that struck me at the game on Thursday was how wonderfully we were cycling the puck 5 on 5 because everyone was moving, and yet the power play is so poor, in part, because we stop moving for the most part and become so much easier to defend. As much as I hate our scheme in general, it would be so much more effective if we kept all 5 guys moving at all times.

Great observation. Hadn't thought of this

 

[trevorftw]

Since JBo is 35, whether it was a one or two year deal you could have a relatively low base and give him significant games played bonuses. Lowers the cap risk in the event of injury.

Wouldn't this also encourage him to play with injury, like he has just recently?

 

[MissouriMook]

Wouldn't this also encourage him to play with injury, like he has just recently?

Coaches decide who plays. The lower his base contract is, the more likely he would be sat or on IR if he was ineffective.

 

[trevorftw]

Coaches decide who plays. The lower his base contract is, the more likely he would be sat or on IR if he was ineffective.

Not to be argumentative, but that's not exactly true. Team doctors can keep a player from playing, and players generally tell coaches if they feel like they're good to go. A lot of times you're right.

I do think you're right though that at a lower base and shorter term, a coach would have less issue benching him in general if necessary.