Blues #1 goaltender race Allen vs. Binnington vs. Husso?

Blues #1 goaltender?

  • Jake Allen

    Votes: 15 11.8%
  • Jordan Binnington

    Votes: 95 74.8%
  • Ville Husso

    Votes: 11 8.7%
  • Jared Koreau

    Votes: 3 2.4%
  • Evan Fitzpatrick

    Votes: 3 2.4%

  • Total voters
    127
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Dbrownss

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I keep hearing about Army being a good GM. I don't think he is, I think he's a mediocre GM that's had more luck than skill with a few notable exceptions, ROR being the biggest one. He isn't proactive and takes forever to fix something that isn't rocket science, like the team needing a PP Coach.

Army is good enough to get us in the playoffs more often than not but lacks the extra gear to take us to the next step. We are spent to the Cap and should have the team we need by now under him to hunt for the Cup.

If he was a recent hire I'd give him a lot more rope but how many more years does Dough Armstrong need to build a real contender? I love the Blues but I'm not much a believer in him. When he came on board we had issues with offense, today we have the same problem.

It might just be that we need to flush the mid six and lose players like Steen and Schwartz and I'm being silly but I'm watching how other teams are building and I'm like why can't be us? What else does Army need to get us there? Money? Talent? Time?

My comment was originally aimed at Happy saying a Good GM wouldn't meddle. I think Army does and I might be wrong but I'll stand by that.
A PP coach isnt really a thing though. Its something we absolutely need. We need someone like an offensive coordinator. There might be a few in the league but it's not really a position. Do you know he hasn't looked into it? Maybe he has and no one is interested without a guarenteed term that Army won't offer while we're in a coaching flux.

He's not perfect but he's one of the better GMs in the league.


As for the meddling, you're basically saying you believe in your opinion with no evidence, but it's what you believe and no ones going to change your mind....
 
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GoldenSeal

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A PP coach isnt really a thing though. Its something we absolutely need. We need someone like an offensive coordinator. There might be a few in the league but it's not really a position. Do you know he hasn't looked into it? Maybe he has and no one is interested without a guarenteed term that Army won't offer while we're in a coaching flux.

He's not perfect but he's one of the better GMs in the league.


As for the meddling, you're basically saying you believe in your opinion with no evidence, but it's what you believe and no ones going to change your mind....

That's not what I said . I have an opinion and I and you and everyone else has a right to one. Someone asked a few posts ago if anyone else that Army does this. I do feel that, that doesn't make me right but I own up to my opinion and I do admit when I'm wrong and FWIW no one, not you or anyone else, can prove that Army is NOT doing that either, so... What are we talking about again? :)

Oh yes, that Army is a good GM. I don't think he is a GM, but after responding to y'all and taking his recent acquisitions into account, I'll say he's OK for the time being.
 

Dbrownss

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That's not what I said . I have an opinion and I and you and everyone else has a right to one. Someone asked a few posts ago if anyone else that Army does this. I do feel that, that doesn't make me right but I own up to my opinion and I do admit when I'm wrong and FWIW no one, not you or anyone else, can prove that Army is NOT doing that either, so... What are we talking about again? :)

Oh yes, that Army is a good GM. I don't think he is a GM, but after responding to y'all and taking his recent acquisitions into account, I'll say he's OK for the time being.
This is the problem with today's society. Yes you were simply responding to a question but the burden of proof is on the accuser. I cant prove he's not doing something when there's no evidence he's doing it. Berube has moved guys all over the lineup and scratched several guys. I doubt Army is happy about some of those.
 

GoldenSeal

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This is the problem with today's society. Yes you were simply responding to a question but the burden of proof is on the accuser. I cant prove he's not doing something when there's no evidence he's doing it. Berube has moved guys all over the lineup and scratched several guys. I doubt Army is happy about some of those.

Actually, the problem with today's society is you can't have an opinion without someone getting triggered from it.
 
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EastonBlues22

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This is the problem with today's society. Yes you were simply responding to a question but the burden of proof is on the accuser. I cant prove he's not doing something when there's no evidence he's doing it. Berube has moved guys all over the lineup and scratched several guys. I doubt Army is happy about some of those.
You can't ever "prove" a negative.
 
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EastonBlues22

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Actually, the problem with today's society is you can't have an opinion without someone getting triggered from it.
Others might say the problem is that people feel empowered to say anything they want in a public forum under the guise of it being an "opinion," without the need to attempt to validate said opinion or justify it in any way.
 

GoldenSeal

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Others might say the problem is that people feel empowered to say anything they want in a public forum under the guise of it being an "opinion," without the need to attempt to validate said opinion or justify it in any way.

So I can't state a personal opinion I have that I clearly preface as one?

I gotcha.
 

carter333167

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Apr 24, 2013
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It would be nice if the Blues had considered Bishop in the offseason. This team desperately needs a true #1 goaltender.
 

Dbrownss

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So I can't state a personal opinion I have that I clearly preface as one?

I gotcha.
You can...but its the equivalent to throwing shit at a wall and seeing it sticks. It would be different if it was an evidence based opinion instead of just pulling it out of your butt.

Last time I'll ask, why do you think Armstrong meddles with the lineup against the coach's wishes?
 
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GoldenSeal

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You can...but its the equivalent to throwing **** at a wall and seeing it sticks. It would be different if it was an evidence based opinion instead of just pulling it out of your butt.

Last time I'll ask, why do you think Armstrong meddles with the lineup against the coach's wishes?

It's a gut feeling opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

I've answered the question earlier, but again: Some of the lines that are being ran that makes little sense, some pairings on D that don't quite work as well as others and the choice, in the past, to run Allen at times or seemingly giving him preference when it's clear he shouldn't be anywhere near the net. (After the last half dozen games, I've become of the mind that Allen is great in small doses and just imo doesn't seem to be Starter material.)

If you want me to start naming specific examples, I don't have any ready, beyond wondering how in the world Schwartz got assigned to the top line, for example.

Just little things.

Honestly, I've found the question intriguing. The truth is we don't know much on the subject so we (or I in this matter) speculate. There's no harm in it, Army will have his job tomorrow and Stillman seems to absolutely trust him. I can't talk for the coaches but I wouldn't want to be that GM that tries to tell Chief how to do his job.
 

Reality Czech

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Actually, the problem with today's society is you can't have an opinion without someone getting triggered from it.

I would say the bigger problem is people thinking they know more than they actually do. Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but some opinions aren't worth much. So many fans seem to think they know what's going on behind the scenes despite the fact that they are just guessing most of the time.
 

Dbrownss

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It's a gut feeling opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

I've answered the question earlier, but again: Some of the lines that are being ran that makes little sense, some pairings on D that don't quite work as well as others and the choice, in the past, to run Allen at times or seemingly giving him preference when it's clear he shouldn't be anywhere near the net. (After the last half dozen games, I've become of the mind that Allen is great in small doses and just imo doesn't seem to be Starter material.)

If you want me to start naming specific examples, I don't have any ready, beyond wondering how in the world Schwartz got assigned to the top line, for example.

Just little things.

Honestly, I've found the question intriguing. The truth is we don't know much on the subject so we (or I in this matter) speculate. There's no harm in it, Army will have his job tomorrow and Stillman seems to absolutely trust him. I can't talk for the coaches but I wouldn't want to be that GM that tries to tell Chief how to do his job.
What about those given situations lead you to believe its Army and not the coach? I agree there's some head scratchers, but I wouldn't pin that on the GM. You can make the case showcasing someone but I wouldnt say that's pushed by the GM but an agreement between management. If a team is trying to win though, that doesnt happen.

I'd say the Allen situation is starting to show managment isnt ride or die with the guy. They are clearly favoring Binnington.

As for Schwartz, his body of work says he's a top line winger who's having a bad season. Everything Orielly touches turns to gold except for Schwartz and Maroon.


The GM hires a coach that shares his vision, so it wouldn't be a leap to say they would have a similar line construction.
 
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EastonBlues22

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So I can't state a personal opinion I have that I clearly preface as one?

I gotcha.
I don't think you do.

Back in the day, people who offered an opinion in a public forum would generally be ready and willing to defend it in some way if it was challenged. People understood that an opinion was only as strong as the argument behind it, because it was those arguments that swayed the opinions of others. People also weren't bombarded with the number of messages that one gets in the modern world (via advertising, spam, online interactions/communications, etc.), so people tended to listen when others spoke. It wasn't hard to get their attention, but it was much harder to convince them.

Nowadays, offering an opinion in a public forum often isn't about convincing someone through strength of argument. It's about simply being heard in a sea of noise. Since critical thinking isn't exactly a strength for most of the world's population, simply being heard is often all it takes to start to sway opinions. How does one get a message heard? By making it stand out in some way (by being extreme, or being first, etc.)...hence, the polarization of opinions, #hottakes, people spouting off real-time "reactions" instead of conducting analysis, etc. People don't worry about justifying their opinions, because honestly, the strength of one's argument simply doesn't matter that much anymore. If one's opinion is challenged, one can always deflect, attack, lie, or whatever and shift the discussion to something else.

The quality of public discourse is degrading. Significantly. And the above is a big part of the reason why.

That's what I'm getting at. IMO, that problem is a lot bigger one for society than your proposal that people are too sensitive to the opinions of others.

You can post whatever opinion you want, but whether or not you contribute to the problem I'm describing above beyond that is up to you.
 

Celtic Note

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Others might say the problem is that people feel empowered to say anything they want in a public forum under the guise of it being an "opinion," without the need to attempt to validate said opinion or justify it in any way.
Or when people think feelings qualify as facts and logic.

Or when people want to say things just for visibility or to irritate others.

Or when people just feel like saying dumb things just because they can.

Pretty sure I could keep going for a while. I should do a Peter Griffin session of “You know what really grinds my gears?!?”
 
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Celtic Note

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I don't think you do.

Back in the day, people who offered an opinion in a public forum would generally be ready and willing to defend it in some way if it was challenged. People understood that an opinion was only as strong as the argument behind it, because it was those arguments that swayed the opinions of others. People also weren't bombarded with the number of messages that one gets in the modern world (via advertising, spam, online interactions/communications, etc.), so people tended to listen when others spoke. It wasn't hard to get their attention, but it was much harder to convince them.

Nowadays, offering an opinion in a public forum often isn't about convincing someone through strength of argument. It's about simply being heard in a sea of noise. Since critical thinking isn't exactly a strength for most of the world's population, simply being heard is often all it takes to start to sway opinions. How does one get a message heard? By making it stand out in some way (by being extreme, or being first, etc.)...hence, the polarization of opinions, #hottakes, people spouting off real-time "reactions" instead of conducting analysis, etc. People don't worry about justifying their opinions, because honestly, the strength of one's argument simply doesn't matter that much anymore. If one's opinion is challenged, one can always deflect, attack, lie, or whatever and shift the discussion to something else.

The quality of public discourse is degrading. Significantly. And the above is a big part of the reason why.

That's what I'm getting at. IMO, that problem is a lot bigger one for society than your proposal that people are too sensitive to the opinions of others.

You can post whatever opinion you want, but whether or not you contribute to the problem I'm describing above beyond that is up to you.
It’s maddening to know that despite having incredible amounts of information at our fingertips people have become less thoughtful and intelligent. Somehow when people do see/seek information it is from unsubstantiated sources. Facebook has become a relied upon for information, in addition to other opinion laden “sources”. People believe these sources and it must have to do with an absence of critical thinking. I think a Renaissance man could walk into our society today and immediately ask what the hell happened to cause our deevolution?

The other thing that miffs me is the inability to reason with people anymore. If they lack critical thinking capabilities, then using logic is not going to convince them of anything. You have to be sensational and pander to their emotions.

I am not sure where this fits in, but how come it is so difficult for people to take responsibility for their wrongs? There seems to be no ownership of personal responsibility way too often. We are not talking about outliers here. I was just on a train today where a lady pushed her way to a seat unnecessarily and very rudely, then when people irritatedly pushed past here to exit, she was pissed at them. The hipocracy and lack of culpability is appalling at times.
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
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It’s maddening to know that despite having incredible amounts of information at our fingertips people have become less thoughtful and intelligent. Somehow when people do see/seek information it is from unsubstantiated sources. Facebook has become a relied upon for information, in addition to other opinion laden “sources”. People believe these sources and it must have to do with an absence of critical thinking. I think a Renaissance man could walk into our society today and immediately ask what the hell happened to cause our deevolution?

The other thing that miffs me is the inability to reason with people anymore. If they lack critical thinking capabilities, then using logic is not going to convince them of anything. You have to be sensational and pander to their emotions.

I am not sure where this fits in, but how come it is so difficult for people to take responsibility for their wrongs? There seems to be no ownership of personal responsibility way too often. We are not talking about outliers here. I was just on a train today where a lady pushed her way to a seat unnecessarily and very rudely, then when people irritatedly pushed past here to exit, she was pissed at them. The hipocracy and lack of culpability is appalling at times.
:clap:

Personally I'm done with allowing people to have their own "facts". If I think you're full of shit, I'm going to call you out on it.

Another thing is too many people looooove anecdotal evidence. I just say...I don't believe you.



If there's one thing i love about this subforum is how far off the rails we get.:laugh:
 

Celtic Note

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:clap:

Personally I'm done with allowing people to have their own "facts". If I think you're full of ****, I'm going to call you out on it.

Another thing is too many people looooove anecdotal evidence. I just say...I don't believe you.



If there's one thing i love about this subforum is how far off the rails we get.:laugh:
Goalies really do bring out the best in us! Lol
 

The Note

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If there's one thing i love about this subforum is how far off the rails we get.:laugh:
This thread has turned into a discussion on the current state of public discourse -with a lot of good points being made and things I think should be stickied to every thread, particularly about backing opinions up- the Schenn thread has largely been about Pietrangelo, and the Schwartz thread was dominated by Fabbri talk for a couple of pages. I want to make a thread about Dunn to generate some good discussion about the play of Alex Steen.
 

Em etah Eh

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This thread has turned into a discussion on the current state of public discourse -with a lot of good points being made and things I think should be stickied to every thread, particularly about backing opinions up- the Schenn thread has largely been about Pietrangelo, and the Schwartz thread was dominated by Fabbri talk for a couple of pages. I want to make a thread about Dunn to generate some good discussion about the play of Alex Steen.
Maybe Ranksu can create a new poll "who better in top six forward, Steen or Dunn?".
 

Ranksu

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Maybe Ranksu can create a new poll "who better in top six forward, Steen or Dunn?".
giphy.gif
 

Addison Rae

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Jun 2, 2009
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Hey guys Canucks fan here, can someone please explain to me why Allen is getting more and more starts.

To me Binnington has been absolutely fantastic and should be your clear number 1, he’s saved your season and been of the best goalies in the league since taking over. Because he lost a few games you guys are going back to your below .500, below league average goalie? To me that makes little sense.

I’m mad because I have Binnington in my fantasy league, but because of that I’ve been watching him play more and more and he has impressed me.
 

Dbrownss

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Jan 5, 2014
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Hey guys Canucks fan here, can someone please explain to me why Allen is getting more and more starts.

To me Binnington has been absolutely fantastic and should be your clear number 1, he’s saved your season and been of the best goalies in the league since taking over. Because he lost a few games you guys are going back to your below .500, below league average goalie? To me that makes little sense.

I’m mad because I have Binnington in my fantasy league, but because of that I’ve been watching him play more and more and he has impressed me.
Just a guess but Allen is money on the road, so Binny gets the home games. The Blues finish the last 13 games and have 5 road games. It's a heavy load for a rookie to finish with.
 
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