Player Discussion: Blake Wheeler

[Jetfaninflorida]

Wheeler is without a doubt the worst player of the top 5 scoring RWs in the NHL this year...

Let's analyze your 'Top 5 Scoring RWs in the NHL' comment. Let's look at those above and around him and their 5v5 contribution compared to their total contribution to the team in terms of points production:

Patrick Kane: 23 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 52% of his points production is 5v5
Mitch Marner: 23 Points total. 14 Points 5v5 61% of his points production is 5v5
Brock Boeser: 21 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 57% of his points production is 5v5
Mark Stone: 16 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 63% of his points production is 5v5
Blake Wheeler: 14 Points total. 3 Points 5v5 21% of his points production is 5v5
Conner Garland: 14 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 71% of his points production is 5v5
Andrei Svechnikov: 14 Points total. 7 Points 5v5 50% of his points production is 5v5

And if you look at actual points per game all situations, he is not top 5 RW in the league and actually drops out of the top 10. But that's a separate discussion all together.

The concern is his contribution 5v5. It is a straight up verifiable fact that Wheeler's points are padded in easy ice situations like pplay, OT and EN situations.'

If you look at Right Wingers at 5v5 with at least 100 minutes TOI at 5v5:
- Wheeler is 65th out of 71 Right Wingers for CF%
And that is with a 66.22% OZone start percentage.

And if you look at his High Danger Chances For % at 5v5,
- Wheeler is 67th out of 71 right wingers.
Even with those favorable OZone starts

And if you look at his 5v5 points production:
- Wheeler is 51st out of 71 with a total of 3 points at 5v5
- that's 3 points 5v5 16 games in

Bottom line: He is killing us and is a liability on the ice the way he has been used by Maurice 5v5. It's not really Blake's fault, it is Maurice's fault. Blake Wheeler is just not a 1st line winger any more. He's just not good enough to play against other team's best players. What some of us are advocating for is to help the guy be successful, which will help the team be successful. Move him down to a third or 4th line role 5v5, where he can still compete. For those who took Blake Wheeler in their fantasy league who want to see Blake gets lots of easy points, fine, leave him on the powerplay. But you aren't going to convince me that our powerplay couldn't continue to be middle tier with someone in place of Wheeler.

 

[Teemusalami204]

So pld has cramps and is out for weeks. And wheeler gets to play banged up???

 

[Duke749]

So pld has cramps and is out for weeks. And wheeler gets to play banged up???

I highly doubt it’s that straight forward. With that being said, it could be something that he can’t make worse and is easy enough to play through. But also, if it’s negatively impacting his play, one would think maybe sit a game or two to heal up. Seems like he’s always a little banged up.

 

[bennylundholm]

Let's analyze your 'Top 5 Scoring RWs in the NHL' comment. Let's look at those above and around him and their 5v5 contribution compared to their total contribution to the team in terms of points production:

Patrick Kane: 23 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 52% of his points production is 5v5
Mitch Marner: 23 Points total. 14 Points 5v5 61% of his points production is 5v5
Brock Boeser: 21 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 57% of his points production is 5v5
Mark Stone: 16 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 63% of his points production is 5v5
Blake Wheeler: 14 Points total. 3 Points 5v5 21% of his points production is 5v5
Conner Garland: 14 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 71% of his points production is 5v5
Andrei Svechnikov: 14 Points total. 7 Points 5v5 50% of his points production is 5v5

And if you look at actual points per game all situations, he is not top 5 RW in the league and actually drops out of the top 10. But that's a separate discussion all together.

The concern is his contribution 5v5. It is a straight up verifiable fact that Wheeler's points are padded in easy ice situations like pplay, OT and EN situations.'

If you look at Right Wingers at 5v5 with at least 100 minutes TOI at 5v5:
- Wheeler is 65th out of 71 Right Wingers for CF%
And that is with a 66.22% OZone start percentage.

And if you look at his High Danger Chances For % at 5v5,
- Wheeler is 67th out of 71 right wingers.
Even with those favorable OZone starts

And if you look at his 5v5 points production:
- Wheeler is 51st out of 71 with a total of 3 points at 5v5
- that's 3 points 5v5 16 games in

Bottom line: He is killing us and is a liability on the ice the way he has been used by Maurice 5v5. It's not really Blake's fault, it is Maurice's fault. Blake Wheeler is just not a 1st line winger any more. He's just not good enough to play against other team's best players. What some of us are advocating for is to help the guy be successful, which will help the team be successful. Move him down to a third or 4th line role 5v5, where he can still compete. For those who took Blake Wheeler in their fantasy league who want to see Blake gets lots of easy points, fine, leave him on the powerplay. But you aren't going to convince me that our powerplay couldn't continue to be middle tier with someone in place of Wheeler.

Thank you. Everything you said. Makes total sense.

 

[bennylundholm]

So pld has cramps and is out for weeks. And wheeler gets to play banged up???

I hope Wheeler is banged up and still playing.
Cause if he's 100% like he says he is, then its a fricking major shame that he is playing as tentatively and crappily as he is.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Let's analyze your 'Top 5 Scoring RWs in the NHL' comment. Let's look at those above and around him and their 5v5 contribution compared to their total contribution to the team in terms of points production:

Patrick Kane: 23 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 52% of his points production is 5v5
Mitch Marner: 23 Points total. 14 Points 5v5 61% of his points production is 5v5
Brock Boeser: 21 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 57% of his points production is 5v5
Mark Stone: 16 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 63% of his points production is 5v5
Blake Wheeler: 14 Points total. 3 Points 5v5 21% of his points production is 5v5
Conner Garland: 14 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 71% of his points production is 5v5
Andrei Svechnikov: 14 Points total. 7 Points 5v5 50% of his points production is 5v5

And if you look at actual points per game all situations, he is not top 5 RW in the league and actually drops out of the top 10. But that's a separate discussion all together.

The concern is his contribution 5v5. It is a straight up verifiable fact that Wheeler's points are padded in easy ice situations like pplay, OT and EN situations.'

If you look at Right Wingers at 5v5 with at least 100 minutes TOI at 5v5:
- Wheeler is 65th out of 71 Right Wingers for CF%
And that is with a 66.22% OZone start percentage.

And if you look at his High Danger Chances For % at 5v5,
- Wheeler is 67th out of 71 right wingers.
Even with those favorable OZone starts

And if you look at his 5v5 points production:
- Wheeler is 51st out of 71 with a total of 3 points at 5v5
- that's 3 points 5v5 16 games in

Bottom line: He is killing us and is a liability on the ice the way he has been used by Maurice 5v5. It's not really Blake's fault, it is Maurice's fault. Blake Wheeler is just not a 1st line winger any more. He's just not good enough to play against other team's best players. What some of us are advocating for is to help the guy be successful, which will help the team be successful. Move him down to a third or 4th line role 5v5, where he can still compete. For those who took Blake Wheeler in their fantasy league who want to see Blake gets lots of easy points, fine, leave him on the powerplay. But you aren't going to convince me that our powerplay couldn't continue to be middle tier with someone in place of Wheeler.

If this is all true. It’s really really bad. I was thinking it was the small cliff a nutimik lake wheeelr feel off of , not the biggest one at horseshoe lake at jasper ab

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

If this is all true. It’s really really bad. I was thinking it was the small cliff a nutimik lake wheeelr feel off of , not the biggest one at horseshoe lake at jasper ab

If?

The stats posted are the actual stats. My source was naturalstattrick.com. But you can use whatever source you like.

But really it is the play on the ice where it has been the most obvious. The stats just back up what we are all seeing and discussing about Wheeler most games.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Icing the best team possible and winning are the only goals (pardon the pun). Regardless of whether he's injured, or slow starting, or simply getting older, he isn't helping the team by playing all of those 5x5 minutes in crucial situations on the first line.

Not speculating what the issue is and I'm not blaming anyone but the coach here. If someone is not playing well enough for a certain role, regardless of the reason, then they should be moved to an appropriate role.

It's a short season, we don't have time to 'get players going', as we are already about 1/3 of the way through the regular season. Just ice the roster in the configuration that gives us the best chance of winning.

..... and maybe Maurice knows something that we don't (I don't know what that could be) and he IS icing the roster in the best configuration for winning?

 

[Imcanadianeh]

The Jets 5v5 on ice save percentage with Wheeler on the ice is a horrible 0.855.

Something to think about is how much of wheelers 5v5 +\- is due to bad luck on his part from having less than stellar goaltending while he is on the ice and how much is this horrible save percentage because of Wheelers less than stellar play.

I have a hard time solely blaming Wheeler for that bad save percentage when there are 4 other players on the ice with him.

I’m thinking the truth is somewhere in the middle and that part of his bad 5v5 +\- is just bad luck, but also he needs to be playing better.

 

[pucka lucka]

I wonder if Beyak has heard something from the team or is he making an assumption? I can see people assuming he's hurt just because he's never played like this.

My concern goes back to age. Players never want to sit out and Wheeler strikes me as one of those players. And sure if it's minor, maybe he feels he can play thru it, but the fact is as we get older it takes us longer to recover and heal. If he's hurt I would rather see him sitting out and getting back to 100% so he's 100% for the playoffs.

Who plays a hurt star player in games 1-10 at full prime ice time levels when they are pretty awful? It's nonsense. There isn't an argument that holds up. He's just been bad. Nobody plays a hurt player 20 mins a night.

 

[Trinity]

Let's analyze your 'Top 5 Scoring RWs in the NHL' comment. Let's look at those above and around him and their 5v5 contribution compared to their total contribution to the team in terms of points production:

Patrick Kane: 23 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 52% of his points production is 5v5
Mitch Marner: 23 Points total. 14 Points 5v5 61% of his points production is 5v5
Brock Boeser: 21 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 57% of his points production is 5v5
Mark Stone: 16 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 63% of his points production is 5v5
Blake Wheeler: 14 Points total. 3 Points 5v5 21% of his points production is 5v5
Conner Garland: 14 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 71% of his points production is 5v5
Andrei Svechnikov: 14 Points total. 7 Points 5v5 50% of his points production is 5v5

And if you look at actual points per game all situations, he is not top 5 RW in the league and actually drops out of the top 10. But that's a separate discussion all together.

The concern is his contribution 5v5. It is a straight up verifiable fact that Wheeler's points are padded in easy ice situations like pplay, OT and EN situations.'

If you look at Right Wingers at 5v5 with at least 100 minutes TOI at 5v5:
- Wheeler is 65th out of 71 Right Wingers for CF%
And that is with a 66.22% OZone start percentage.

And if you look at his High Danger Chances For % at 5v5,
- Wheeler is 67th out of 71 right wingers.
Even with those favorable OZone starts

And if you look at his 5v5 points production:
- Wheeler is 51st out of 71 with a total of 3 points at 5v5
- that's 3 points 5v5 16 games in

Bottom line: He is killing us and is a liability on the ice the way he has been used by Maurice 5v5. It's not really Blake's fault, it is Maurice's fault. Blake Wheeler is just not a 1st line winger any more. He's just not good enough to play against other team's best players. What some of us are advocating for is to help the guy be successful, which will help the team be successful. Move him down to a third or 4th line role 5v5, where he can still compete. For those who took Blake Wheeler in their fantasy league who want to see Blake gets lots of easy points, fine, leave him on the powerplay. But you aren't going to convince me that our powerplay couldn't continue to be middle tier with someone in place of Wheeler.

Thank you for putting in the work on this! I've know what my eyes have been seeing on the ice with Wheeler for a while now, but I was too lazy to do this type of analysis. This will hopefully put to bed the Wheeler supporters who think he's still a top line player.

 

[DRW204]

Let's analyze your 'Top 5 Scoring RWs in the NHL' comment. Let's look at those above and around him and their 5v5 contribution compared to their total contribution to the team in terms of points production:

Patrick Kane: 23 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 52% of his points production is 5v5
Mitch Marner: 23 Points total. 14 Points 5v5 61% of his points production is 5v5
Brock Boeser: 21 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 57% of his points production is 5v5
Mark Stone: 16 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 63% of his points production is 5v5
Blake Wheeler: 14 Points total. 3 Points 5v5 21% of his points production is 5v5
Conner Garland: 14 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 71% of his points production is 5v5
Andrei Svechnikov: 14 Points total. 7 Points 5v5 50% of his points production is 5v5

And if you look at actual points per game all situations, he is not top 5 RW in the league and actually drops out of the top 10. But that's a separate discussion all together.

The concern is his contribution 5v5. It is a straight up verifiable fact that Wheeler's points are padded in easy ice situations like pplay, OT and EN situations.'

If you look at Right Wingers at 5v5 with at least 100 minutes TOI at 5v5:
- Wheeler is 65th out of 71 Right Wingers for CF%
And that is with a 66.22% OZone start percentage.

And if you look at his High Danger Chances For % at 5v5,
- Wheeler is 67th out of 71 right wingers.
Even with those favorable OZone starts

And if you look at his 5v5 points production:
- Wheeler is 51st out of 71 with a total of 3 points at 5v5
- that's 3 points 5v5 16 games in

Bottom line: He is killing us and is a liability on the ice the way he has been used by Maurice 5v5. It's not really Blake's fault, it is Maurice's fault. Blake Wheeler is just not a 1st line winger any more. He's just not good enough to play against other team's best players. What some of us are advocating for is to help the guy be successful, which will help the team be successful. Move him down to a third or 4th line role 5v5, where he can still compete. For those who took Blake Wheeler in their fantasy league who want to see Blake gets lots of easy points, fine, leave him on the powerplay. But you aren't going to convince me that our powerplay couldn't continue to be middle tier with someone in place of Wheeler.

nice post.

just want to put my 2 cents

dont think anyone is suggesting wheeler be scratched or anything. he's still dynamite on the pp as the set up guy (his set up to scheifele the other night was $$$).

but at 5v5, he's been terrible. pts/60, defensively, whatever on-ice measure you'd like use he's been inefficient given his TOI. and i think the eye-test matches that (evidently since he has a whopping 3 pts at 5v5 and gets scored on nightly)

needs to play lower down the line up and less mins

 

[Bob E]

Bob Irving and Garret having a Twitter conversation about Wheeler this morning.





I’m with Garret on this conversation.

 

[DRW204]

Bob Irving and Garret having a Twitter conversation about Wheeler this morning.





I’m with Garret on this conversation.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

I mean the way Garret is wording that makes it sound worse than it is. He is including the small sample of this season as one of the seasons.

If you use the last 4 completed seasons Wheeler is positive or even in 3 out of the 4 and the one season he wasn’t even or positive was the 18-19 season and was only a -1 on what many people here describe as a disastrous season

 

[SM]

Lol came here to comment on Garret’s posts. Man, the old men of hockey love to bitch about “analytics” not telling the TRUE story about hockey. Was good for a laugh, especially Garret sharing the NHL asked for his input on the stats on NHL.com.

I don’t know if all media members think they’re somehow better tuned into what makes players tick, or if there’s something to being incredibly biased by having a human connection with these players, but Jesus, why do all Winnipeg media (except Murat) think their observations are better than sophisticated models that have evolved through collaboration?

 

[JetsUK]

Let's analyze your 'Top 5 Scoring RWs in the NHL' comment. Let's look at those above and around him and their 5v5 contribution compared to their total contribution to the team in terms of points production:

Patrick Kane: 23 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 52% of his points production is 5v5
Mitch Marner: 23 Points total. 14 Points 5v5 61% of his points production is 5v5
Brock Boeser: 21 Points total. 12 Points 5v5 57% of his points production is 5v5
Mark Stone: 16 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 63% of his points production is 5v5
Blake Wheeler: 14 Points total. 3 Points 5v5 21% of his points production is 5v5
Conner Garland: 14 Points total. 10 Points 5v5 71% of his points production is 5v5
Andrei Svechnikov: 14 Points total. 7 Points 5v5 50% of his points production is 5v5

And if you look at actual points per game all situations, he is not top 5 RW in the league and actually drops out of the top 10. But that's a separate discussion all together.

The concern is his contribution 5v5. It is a straight up verifiable fact that Wheeler's points are padded in easy ice situations like pplay, OT and EN situations.'

If you look at Right Wingers at 5v5 with at least 100 minutes TOI at 5v5:
- Wheeler is 65th out of 71 Right Wingers for CF%
And that is with a 66.22% OZone start percentage.

And if you look at his High Danger Chances For % at 5v5,
- Wheeler is 67th out of 71 right wingers.
Even with those favorable OZone starts

And if you look at his 5v5 points production:
- Wheeler is 51st out of 71 with a total of 3 points at 5v5
- that's 3 points 5v5 16 games in

Bottom line: He is killing us and is a liability on the ice the way he has been used by Maurice 5v5. It's not really Blake's fault, it is Maurice's fault. Blake Wheeler is just not a 1st line winger any more. He's just not good enough to play against other team's best players. What some of us are advocating for is to help the guy be successful, which will help the team be successful. Move him down to a third or 4th line role 5v5, where he can still compete. For those who took Blake Wheeler in their fantasy league who want to see Blake gets lots of easy points, fine, leave him on the powerplay. But you aren't going to convince me that our powerplay couldn't continue to be middle tier with someone in place of Wheeler.

Thanks for this detailed analysis. Not sure that Wheeler would fight a Statsny-type reassignment to 3rd-line and PP time, but also suspect that Maurice is not going to push this, given his recent robust defence of Wheeler's "effing 11 points in 10 games" and their full-throated commitment to going through brick walls for one another.

If it's an injury then Wheels should be out recuperating, or at least playing less and playing to his strengths and his level, according to where he can most help the team. If it's straight-up decline then we're in for a few tough years with a severely declining player taking up a hefty % of the cap. Here's hoping it's the former.

 

[Trinity]

Lol came here to comment on Garret’s posts. Man, the old men of hockey love to bitch about “analytics” not telling the TRUE story about hockey. Was good for a laugh, especially Garret sharing the NHL asked for his input on the stats on NHL.com.

I don’t know if all media members think they’re somehow better tuned into what makes players tick, or if there’s something to being incredibly biased by having a human connection with these players, but Jesus, why do all Winnipeg media (except Murat) think their observations are better than sophisticated models that have evolved through collaboration?

Mike McIntyre is great for inside info once n a while, but his in-game comments are vomit-inducing. I wish there were a way where I could only see certain types of tweets from him.

 

[Heldig]

The Jets 5v5 on ice save percentage with Wheeler on the ice is a horrible 0.855.

Something to think about is how much of wheelers 5v5 +\- is due to bad luck on his part from having less than stellar goaltending while he is on the ice and how much is this horrible save percentage because of Wheelers less than stellar play.

I have a hard time solely blaming Wheeler for that bad save percentage when there are 4 other players on the ice with him.

I’m thinking the truth is somewhere in the middle and that part of his bad 5v5 +\- is just bad luck, but also he needs to be playing better.

Well, one obvious issue is wheeler routinely fails to pick up his man on the ice leading to high danger scoring chances. Save percentage is a reflection of that.

 

[DRW204]

The Jets 5v5 on ice save percentage with Wheeler on the ice is a horrible 0.855.

Something to think about is how much of wheelers 5v5 +\- is due to bad luck on his part from having less than stellar goaltending while he is on the ice and how much is this horrible save percentage because of Wheelers less than stellar play.

I have a hard time solely blaming Wheeler for that bad save percentage when there are 4 other players on the ice with him.

I’m thinking the truth is somewhere in the middle and that part of his bad 5v5 +\- is just bad luck, but also he needs to be playing better.

so helle is saying
"oh blake wheeler is on the ice so let's let in a bunch of goals"

look at his wheeler's stats defensively, it makes sense why he has such a poor on-ice sv%, it's been terrible when he's on the ice

now, of course, not ALL is on him like you mentioned, he played lots with KC who is terribad defensively, and the combo of CSW. But relative to the rest of the team he's been very poor.

 

[Romang67]

I trust that people blaming Wheeler for his on-ice sv% of .855 also think Beaulieu was mostly responsible for his top 10 league wide on-ice save percentage of .958 last season.

Which was a slight improvement from his 397th ranked placement the season before.

Any given player has minimal effect on his own on-ice save percentage. A winger, even less so.

 

[Hunter368]

Stay on subject please, this thread is about Wheeler, not some player who isn't even on the team anymore.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Wheeler's fighting the puck still, though his legs seem to have come around. Fighting the puck is common as you age. Reminds me of how it now takes me about 20 games to feel up to speed in a hockey game on Sunday morning. Good news for Blake is he's almost 20 games in; bad news for me is the season is only 20 games.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Wheeler has looked better the past 2 games, after the prior several dismal performances. He is finally playing with some pace to his game and pressuring better on the forecheck.

Regardless of your thoughts on Wheeler we can all agree that is a positive for the team.

Prior to the past 2 games I was fearful that Wheelers game had completely fallen Off the cliff with 3 years and 25mill left on his contract. He has regressed for sure but thankfully not to a disastrous level, that most likely he was playing injured.

 

[Evil Little]

Garret: "Don't appeal to authority"
Also Garret: