Bill Nylander Discussion

[ZEBROA]

"**** it with these wingers, drive the play and just do it?"

No one else can do that with those wingers, not even Matthews.

 

[DarkKnight]

No one else can do that with those wingers, not even Matthews.

When Matthews went beast mode end of this season, his linemates were completely invisible, go back and watch, it was a treat to see him "will" plays. Now to be fair, nobody claims Willie is close to Matthews as a player....at least not publicly

 

[Menzinger]

Lol is that supposed to be really good?

Playing the majority of his ice time with one of the best even strength goal scorers in the league I'd hope he could get some even strength points

Yes.

It's a fantastic stat. Especially given his young age.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Like I said, he played with the best even strength goal scorer. You'd think he would get some even strength points, no?

Basically every player you quoted ended up with ~20+ more points than him so he's not really in their company.

I love how you guys find random stats that show nylander is among some elite players. Its always a fun read.

Sure, I'm sure all it takes is playing with Matthews. Let's comparing Nylander to Matthews' most common 5v5 linemates this year.

Nylander 17/18: 2.35 p/60 (T31), 1.76 p1/60 (T40)
Hyman 17/18: 1.73 p/60 (T137), 1.47 p1/60 (T97)
Kapanen 18/19: 1.9 p/60 (T123), 1.34 p1/60 (T160)
Marleau 18/19: 1.06 p/60 (T389), 0.9 p1/60 (T334)

it's a bit weird how Nylander produces at a high end first line rate, and Kapanen produces at the rate of a mediocre 2nd liner. Marleau is totally garbage. I think there's a bit more to it than simply playing with Matthews and getting handed free points

As a side note, Matthews is unbelievable. Despite playing with two lesser talents at 5v5, he was one of the best producers in the league

 

[Menzinger]

Not true, and Pastrnak is not a good comparable at all...

Nonsense.

You think if Pasta had two high scoring seasons by the time his elc was over instead of one he only signs for only 6.7 mil? Theres no way he would have.

 

[Menzinger]

Like I said, he played with the best even strength goal scorer. You'd think he would get some even strength points, no?

Basically every player you quoted ended up with ~20+ more points than him so he's not really in their company.

I love how you guys find random stats that show nylander is among some elite players. Its always a fun read.

Since when is even strength scoring a "random stat"? Its pretty basic, and shows hes alongside some excellent company, though since it seemingly disproves your entire argument I can see why you'd prefer it didn't exist...

 

[Durrr]

Well we have seen him dominate twice at the worlds but has never been able to translate that to the nhl.

I think the indicator is that he needs the bigger ice for time and space.

Anyone who puts value into this tournament has very little knowledge when it comes to hockey.

Two 60 point seasons out of 3 full seasons before he even turned 23.......unable to translate to the NHL.

Seems legit.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Since when is even strength scoring a "random stat"? Its pretty basic, and shows hes alongside some excellent company, though since it seemingly disproves your entire argument I can see why you'd prefer it didn't exist...

Don't forget Nylander is a powerplay specialist and struggles at 5v5 because he doesn't have open ice to work with

 

[MyBudJT]

So because we ****** up two other contracts we should continue on with that "plan"

That would be a gigantic RFA contract for a winger, about the only other guy that would be close would be Kane and he was winning playoff rounds at this point in his career

Are you faulting Marner for not winning a playoff round?

If his contract demands are ridiculous you do, gutting the team to seriously overpay any player isn't good strategy

Especially a winger, even one as brilliant as Marner

Its only okay to overpay Matthews and Nylander... I get it now...

If Nylander deserved 7 mil x 6 years after career highest of 22G and 61P, shouldn't a 26G 94P Marner be worth at least 10.5???

yeah, that's obviously not true.

How is that statement not true? He has his WC play translated to the NHL?

William Nylander
World Championships: 1.69 P/GP (GREAT!)
NHL: 0.68 P/GP (Not all that great....)

He had 45 even strength points as a sophomore NHLer....

You of all people shouldn't try pull the "hockey knowledge" card lol

Why are we referring to Nylander's sophmore season still??

 

[MyBudJT]

Nonsense.

You think if Pasta had two high scoring seasons by the time his elc was over instead of one he only signs for only 6.7 mil? Theres no way he would have.

How is Pastrnak a good comparable?

Prior to signing ELC:
U21 season:
Pastrnak: 75GP 34G 70P

U22 season:
Nylander: 82GP 20G 61P

How in the world are these good comparables?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

If his contract demands are ridiculous you do, gutting the team to seriously overpay any player isn't good strategy

Especially a winger, even one as brilliant as Marner

Marner has 62 more points than Nylander, in only 2 more games played. In only 3 years.

He has more points, at equal games played, than Nylanders career high, in only 3 years..... think about that.

If you gave Nylander 7, and Matthews 11.6, then what do you give your leading scorer for 2/3 of those years?
While Matthews looked miles ahead of Mitch in the first 2 ELCs, in the final year, not so much.

Marner 3rd year = 1.15/ppg
Mathhews 3rd year = 1.07/ppg

Career high:
Marner 94 points
Matthews 73 points

I get that he got JT this year, I get that AM scores more goals, and is more valuable as a center....

But when you look at those numbers, does 1 player looks miles ahead of the other? Not at all. So I guess that is Marners argument. It doesn't help when you massively overpaid Matthews, especially for 5 years.

In a vacuum, Marner should get around 9, for 6-7 years...... due too over payments, I think more like 10x5.
We could have had Marner for 8 years for 9 mil...... man that sounds pretty good right now.

 

[Menzinger]

How is Pastrnak a good comparable?

Prior to signing ELC:
U21 season:
Pastrnak: 75GP 34G 70P

U22 season:
Nylander: 82GP 20G 61P

How in the world are these good comparables?

That's not how contracts are determined: what matters is real production over the ELC. WHere Nylander had superior numbers (higher pp60 and higher ppg).

 

[MyBudJT]

That's not how contracts are determined: what matters is real production over the ELC. WHere Nylander had superior numbers (higher pp60 and higher ppg).

Points are how comparables are determined. Pastrnak is a horrible comparable.

 

[Menzinger]

Why are we referring to Nylander's sophmore season still??

Read the thread?

 

[Dreakmur]

View attachment 227681

Assisted from neutral zone pokechecks, what does nylander bring that doesn’t result in points?

 

[Menzinger]

Points are how comparables are determined. Pastrnak is a horrible comparable.

And Nylander scored more points than Pasta prior to signing his post elc contract....

 

[MyBudJT]

Read the thread?

Of course! Have you?

The post you responded to was about how his elite production at the WHC have not been able to translate to the NHL level. He's not exactly wrong, and you're trying to cite his sophmore season as your rationale for some reason.

 

[Menzinger]

Of course! Have you?

The post you responded to was about how his elite production at the WHC have not been able to translate to the NHL level. He's not exactly wrong, and you're trying to cite his sophmore season as your rationale for some reason.

The poster literally said he hadn't dominated at the nhl level.

That even strength production says otherwise.

Again, please go back and reread it carefully and youll understand

 

[Kiwi]

Are you faulting Marner for not winning a playoff round?



Its only okay to overpay Matthews and Nylander... I get it now...

If Nylander deserved 7 mil x 6 years after career highest of 22G and 61P, shouldn't a 26G 94P Marner be worth at least 10.5???



How is that statement not true? He has his WC play translated to the NHL?

William Nylander
World Championships: 1.69 P/GP (GREAT!)
NHL: 0.68 P/GP (Not all that great....)



Why are we referring to Nylander's sophmore season still??

I object to paying him ridiculous money that usually goes to guys who won something, yes

No, those contracts suck and I've argued against them so I at least have a leg to stand on when I say don't do it again

If it's bad for the other two it's bad for Marner, I'm not someone that argued against those contracts and then acts like a hypocrite and argues we should do it for the good Torronna boy

Self awareness is our friend

Nylander was over paid (which I've said) and I'd like you to show me the last RFA winger straight off his ECL that made 10.5M that hadn't won anything? Hell I'll even take an RFA winger that had won something

Best of luck

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Can't believe how underrated Nylander is by some fans of this team. It's astonishing.

 

[Morgs]

Assisted from neutral zone pokechecks, what does nylander bring that doesn’t result in points?

Drives xG better than all but 11 forwards. Has positive defensive metrics.

Shot contributions/60 (shots/60 + shot assists/60) is in the 95th percentile of the league. Zone entries in the 98th percentile, zone exits in the 75th percentile.

Guy legit brings everything you could want in a star player except the elite offensive points (minus 2017-18 5v5 and 2016-17 PP)

 

[MyBudJT]

And Nylander scored more points than Pasta prior to signing his post elc contract....

The only season Nylander scored more points than Pastrnak was... NEVER.

U19:
Pastrnak: 46GP 10G 17P 27P
Nylander: Did not play

U20:
Pastrnak: 51GP 15G 26P
Nylander: 22GP 6G 13P

U21:
Pastrnak: 75GP 34G 70P
Nylander: 81GP 22G 61P

U22:
Pastrnak: 82GP 35G 80P
Nylander: 82GP 20G 61P

U23:
Pastrnak: 66GP 38G 81P
Nylanders: 54GP 7G 27P

The closest comprables in these numbers are Nylnaders U23 season and Pastrnak's U19 and U20 seasons....

It boggles my mind how people think that these are good comparables....

 

[MyBudJT]

The poster literally said he hadn't dominated at the nhl level.

That even strength production says otherwise.

Again, please go back and reread it carefully and youll understand

Cherry picking stats at its finest! Gotta love it!

 

[Morgs]

The only season Nylander scored more points than Pastrnak was... NEVER.

U19:
Pastrnak: 46GP 10G 17P 27P
Nylander: Did not play

U20:
Pastrnak: 51GP 15G 26P
Nylander: 22GP 6G 13P

U21:
Pastrnak: 75GP 34G 70P
Nylander: 81GP 22G 61P

U22:
Pastrnak: 82GP 35G 80P
Nylander: 82GP 20G 61P

U23:
Pastrnak: 66GP 38G 81P
Nylanders: 54GP 7G 27P

The closest comprables in these numbers are Nylnaders U23 season and Pastrnak's U19 and U20 seasons....

It boggles my mind how people think that these are good comparables....

Nylander PPG prior to signing contract: 0.73

Pasta PPG prior to signing contract: 0.72

Absolutely are comparables

 

[MyBudJT]

I object to paying him ridiculous money that usually goes to guys who won something, yes

No, those contracts suck and I've argued against them so I at least have a leg to stand on when I say don't do it again

If it's bad for the other two it's bad for Marner, I'm not someone that argued against those contracts and then acts like a hypocrite and argues we should do it for the good Torronna boy

Self awareness is our friend

Nylander was over paid (which I've said) and I'd like you to show me the last RFA winger straight off his ECL that made 10.5M that hadn't won anything? Hell I'll even take an RFA winger that had won something

Best of luck

There simply isn't a Marner comprable out there, especially Marner's who play on a team with a salary structure like ours where we seem to be okay to be generous with our RFAs.