TV: Big Brother US - Season 21

[GKJ]

I wouldn’t say Michie is ‘consensus best player’

 

[TheBeastCoast]

If they got more of a particular type then they're losing the experiment that it's supposed to represent. It's supposed to be different types of people including sensitive and bitter people.

I mean they aren't really getting a wide range of people anyways so that doesn't matter. My entire point is that people if people who play games like Tyler did last season can't win because of Jury management then the game is flawed as a whole. People will keep referring to season as "Man I really like Tyler last year but....someone else won". That is not a good thing and it is turning into a trend with Big Brother and the producers need to find a way to make the players they have less insecure children or just cast better(preferable). They are playing a game.

 

[GKJ]

I mean they aren't really getting a wide range of people anyways so that doesn't matter. My entire point is that people if people who play games like Tyler did last season can't win because of Jury management then the game is flawed as a whole. People will keep referring to season as "Man I really like Tyler last year but....someone else won". That is not a good thing and it is turning into a trend with Big Brother and the producers need to find a way to make the players they have less insecure children or just cast better(preferable). They are playing a game.

Producers are less interested in the best player winning and more interesting in creating the story around it. The evolution of the players. If there is a decidedly most popular player in the house on the final day, they've won.

Tyler's problem more than anything was casting. Two people who were total psychos and didn't belong in the game were casted and screwed him over just because they wanted to do thing like vote for a woman or something. That was also one of the all-time dumb juries when it came to gameplay.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I mean they aren't really getting a wide range of people anyways so that doesn't matter. My entire point is that people if people who play games like Tyler did last season can't win because of Jury management then the game is flawed as a whole. People will keep referring to season as "Man I really like Tyler last year but....someone else won". That is not a good thing and it is turning into a trend with Big Brother and the producers need to find a way to make the players they have less insecure children or just cast better(preferable). They are playing a game.

Well, Kaycee had a legitimate case for winning so I don't know why you just assume that Tyler is the only one with an argument during his season. But without jury management, you essentially kill the entire point of the social aspect of the game which kills the entire purpose of the game. You'll never be able to remove that sort of flaw. People don't watch Big Brother because of the competitions. They watch it for how the relationships form and play out which carries with it significantly less meaning if those interactions all of a sudden have little to no bearing on the end result.

 

[ORRFForever]

Cliff's bitterness with Michie is immature.

Tommy handled his eviction well and gave credit where credit is due.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Well, Kaycee had a legitimate case for winning so I don't know why you just assume that Tyler is the only one with an argument during his season. But without jury management, you essentially kill the entire point of the social aspect of the game which kills the entire purpose of the game. You'll never be able to remove that sort of flaw. People don't watch Big Brother because of the competitions. They watch it for how the relationships form and play out which carries with it significantly less meaning if those interactions all of a sudden have little to no bearing on the end result.

No....She did not have a legitimate case for winning. In one sentence you are saying that people shouldn't win by just winning competitions....and then in the next saying Kaycee had a legit case to win, when all she did was win competitions and not do anything at all so in turn she didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I never once mentioned the competitions as the reasons why Tyler and Michie should win. They played better games. Period. I can understand making an argument for Nicole over Michie, I don't agree with it but it can be made. Kaycee over Tyler is indefensible and was a case of a jury just egregiously screwing Tyler over. You are entitled to your opinion and I understand the game of Big Brother but I think people playing daring and manipulative games should be rewarded. If you enjoy the Ian's and Kaycee's winning that is all you.
It is a big part of the reason why I find Survivor so much more enjoyable at this point. People go on Survivor and just ruthlessly cut each other and back stab the entire time. That is entertaining. Not Kaycee sleeping for 2 months winning a handful of challenges in the last month and then not being Tyler in the final 2. Well earned!

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Producers are less interested in the best player winning and more interesting in creating the story around it. The evolution of the players. If there is a decidedly most popular player in the house on the final day, they've won.

Tyler's problem more than anything was casting. Two people who were total psychos and didn't belong in the game were casted and screwed him over just because they wanted to do thing like vote for a woman or something. That was also one of the all-time dumb juries when it came to gameplay.

Yeah I mean I definitely think Tyler was the worst case of getting screwed by a jury ever other then Dan in S14 at least in this season a case can be made for Nicole winning and she definitely wouldn't be one of the worst winners ever. People that spout "Jury management" with Tyler are so off though lol who did he actually piss off in the house other then Bayleigh? It was basically a handful of people that got their panties in a knot once they realized how good of a game Tyler played after the fact because they all just assumed he was an idiot.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

No....She did not have a legitimate case for winning. In one sentence you are saying that people shouldn't win by just winning competitions....and then in the next saying Kaycee had a legit case to win, when all she did was win competitions and not do anything at all so in turn she didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I never once mentioned the competitions as the reasons why Tyler and Michie should win. They played better games. Period. I can understand making an argument for Nicole over Michie, I don't agree with it but it can be made. Kaycee over Tyler is indefensible and was a case of a jury just egregiously screwing Tyler over. You are entitled to your opinion and I understand the game of Big Brother but I think people playing daring and manipulative games should be rewarded. If you enjoy the Ian's and Kaycee's winning that is all you.
It is a big part of the reason why I find Survivor so much more enjoyable at this point. People go on Survivor and just ruthlessly cut each other and back stab the entire time. That is entertaining. Not Kaycee sleeping for 2 months winning a handful of challenges in the last month and then not being Tyler in the final 2. Well earned!

Except Kaycee did have a legit case to win for that very reason. If you can win competitions like a beast and not be targeted, that can put you in a better position compared to someone who was also able to win competition but couldn't stay out of the spotlight for this sort of thing. Kaycee over Tyler is hardly indefensible. You just don't like to hear it and have your mind made up. Not everyone believes that daring and manipulative should be rewarded and that's part of the social game and that's part of playing the game. Kaycee earned her win and both of them had cases to be the winner. That's part of why it's tough to be a jury member and why it's tough to manage said jury.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Except Kaycee did have a legit case to win for that very reason. If you can win competitions like a beast and not be targeted, that can put you in a better position compared to someone who was also able to win competition but couldn't stay out of the spotlight for this sort of thing. Kaycee over Tyler is hardly indefensible. You just don't like to hear it and have your mind made up. Not everyone believes that daring and manipulative should be rewarded and that's part of the social game and that's part of playing the game. Kaycee earned her win and both of them had cases to be the winner. That's part of why it's tough to be a jury member and why it's tough to manage said jury.

You are absolutely wrong. If Kaycee earned her win then everyone that has ever won Big Brother earned their win and that is ridiculous lol. Kaycee won because she wasn't Tyler it is really as simple as that. Sam voted for her because she wanted to vote for a girl and Scottie was pissed off that Tyler was smarter then him....and is still bitter about it today. People felt duped by Tyler because they assumed he was stupid and when he wasn't they took it personally. What exactly is Tyler supposed to do about that? Like I get that Michie has played a dirty game, he was an idiot with how he handled Cliff last night. I can admit that. What did Tyler do that was "dirty"? Like I said if you find it enjoyable having winners that nap for 2 months and then win some challenges then all the power to you....that is straight up boring to me.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You are absolutely wrong. If Kaycee earned her win then everyone that has ever won Big Brother earned their win and that is ridiculous lol. Kaycee won because she wasn't Tyler it is really as simple as that. Sam voted for her because she wanted to vote for a girl and Scottie was pissed off that Tyler was smarter then him....and is still bitter about it today. People felt duped by Tyler because they assumed he was stupid and when he wasn't they took it personally. What exactly is Tyler supposed to do about that? Like I get that Michie has played a dirty game, he was an idiot with how he handled Cliff last night. I can admit that. What did Tyler do that was "dirty"? Like I said if you find it enjoyable having winners that nap for 2 months and then win some challenges then all the power to you....that is straight up boring to me.

How did Kaycee not earn her win? It was impossible to get her out the last five or six weeks of the show. She made solid deals and had solid alliances throughout the show and never did anything in the social realm to get a target on her back. Tyler did, like it or not. He made too many deals that forced his hand in certain situations and that gets you in trouble in this game. Kaycee didn't. She may not have been the master manipulator of the house's direction but being that doesn't mean you're going to win. And when it was pretty much heads up between the two of them to control their own fates, Kaycee was the better player. Sam didn't vote for Kaycee because of wanting to vote for a girl. Sam voted for Kaycee because Tyler had final two deals with just about everyone and she found out that theirs was BS. Tyler did what Cliff did and that can bite you in the ass in this game. You don't have to like it but it's the reality of the show.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

How did Kaycee not earn her win? It was impossible to get her out the last five or six weeks of the show. She made solid deals and had solid alliances throughout the show and never did anything in the social realm to get a target on her back. Tyler did, like it or not. He made too many deals that forced his hand in certain situations and that gets you in trouble in this game. Kaycee didn't. She may not have been the master manipulator of the house's direction but being that doesn't mean you're going to win. And when it was pretty much heads up between the two of them to control their own fates, Kaycee was the better player. Sam didn't vote for Kaycee because of wanting to vote for a girl. Sam voted for Kaycee because Tyler had final two deals with just about everyone and she found out that theirs was BS. Tyler did what Cliff did and that can bite you in the ass in this game. You don't have to like it but it's the reality of the show.

She never did anything in the social realm to get herself out....because she never did anything. That is why she didn't earn her win. She was a nice person that nobody hated and won comps in the last month of the show. You are right about one thing that I don't have to like it, I don't not even a little bit and it isn't the way the show has always been that the jury gets petty and cries if anyone lies to them like that isn't part of the game. If someone is napping through more then half the game I am sorry they are never going to be a deserving winner....period. You clearly have a different taste for what you enjoy in Big Brother then I do, I absolutely hate what Big Brother has evolved into the last 5ish years but I am glad to see that it seems to be right up your ally.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

I blame Season 14, where the most bitter jury I’ve ever seen cost Dan a repeat win. Now it’s a pretty common thing for the better player to lose.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I blame Season 14, where the most bitter jury I’ve ever seen cost Dan a repeat win. Now it’s a pretty common thing for the better player to lose.

Yup now even the fans see simply not upsetting people as a actual reason why someone should win lol.

 

[ORRFForever]

I blame Season 14, where the most bitter jury I’ve ever seen cost Dan a repeat win. Now it’s a pretty common thing for the better player to lose.

Sad but true.

That jury should have been condemned but, instead, it became the new reality.

 

[ORRFForever]

Yup now even the fans see simply not upsetting people as a actual reason why someone should win lol.

Yup.

***

I don't understand Cliff's reasoning...

"I do NOT keep my word with Michie but that's okay because we didn't shake on it. Michie doesn't keep his word after we shook on it, so I won't give him my vote."

Pathetic.

 

[GKJ]

The bottom line on Cliff is that he wasn’t as smart as they wanted you to think.

 

[MAHJ71]

Hilarious to me that Cliff thought Michie should still honor their "deal" even after Cliff went back on it .... and told him he would not take Michie to final 2.

 

[ORRFForever]

The bottom line on Cliff is that he wasn’t as smart as they wanted you to think.

Or as decent and honourable.

 

[GKJ]

Or as decent and honourable.

Ok, so this is the game. Cliff and Nicole, make this deal, thinking that someone else can knock them out, and then it doesn't happen. Holly and Jackson, stick with Cliff and Nicole because Nicole won the double eviction HOH. If Christie or Tommy win that, they are totally selling Nicole down the river. Cliff gets played in the end because he simply believed too much in one thing and nothing about anything else.

The game is always and forever about numbers, and and which side your numbers are on when power is shifting.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

She never did anything in the social realm to get herself out....because she never did anything. That is why she didn't earn her win. She was a nice person that nobody hated and won comps in the last month of the show. You are right about one thing that I don't have to like it, I don't not even a little bit and it isn't the way the show has always been that the jury gets petty and cries if anyone lies to them like that isn't part of the game. If someone is napping through more then half the game I am sorry they are never going to be a deserving winner....period. You clearly have a different taste for what you enjoy in Big Brother then I do, I absolutely hate what Big Brother has evolved into the last 5ish years but I am glad to see that it seems to be right up your ally.

From a social perspective, someone who did net zero is better than someone who is a net negative because they made deals with everyone and then negged on them. Kaycee didn't nap through more than half the game. She made a deal and let that person take the heat like a smart person should do in this game.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

From a social perspective, someone who did net zero is better than someone who is a net negative because they made deals with everyone and then negged on them. Kaycee didn't nap through more than half the game. She made a deal and let that person take the heat like a smart person should do in this game.

We clearly fundamentally disagree on what is good gameplay in Big Brother so there really is no point in going in circles with each other. No matter how many times we go around and around I am going to think you are wrong.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

We clearly fundamentally disagree on what is good gameplay in Big Brother so there really is no point in going in circles with each other. No matter how many times we go around and around I am going to think you are wrong.

That's all fine and dandy but it doesn't make something you disagree with indefensible and absolute. It's just your opinion.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

That's all fine and dandy but it doesn't make something you disagree with indefensible and absolute. It's just your opinion.

Kaycee didn't do anything to deserve her win. Period.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Kaycee didn't do anything to deserve her win. Period.

And yet you can't actually back that up with anything reasonable. You can say you believe Tyler did more to deserve it but you can't say she didn't do anything to deserve her win. You couldn't get her out of the house the last 6 weeks of the show and somehow to you that's not doing anything. That's an absurd opinion to have.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

And yet you can't actually back that up with anything reasonable. You can say you believe Tyler did more to deserve it but you can't say she didn't do anything to deserve her win. You couldn't get her out of the house the last 6 weeks of the show and somehow to you that's not doing anything. That's an absurd opinion to have.

She aligned herself to Tyler early in the game and rode that right to the end and then won because she wasn't Tyler not because of the game she actually played. You can not agree with what I am saying but don't act like I haven't explained why I think Kaycee was a garbage winner. She is one of the worst players to ever win Big Brother. I am actually shocked that there are people that seemingly enjoy and so vehemently defend the type of boring ass game Kaycee played. The good news for you is the current iteration of Big Brother is literally tailor made for you. Must be on cloud nine.