Friedman: Bergevin’s asks for Pacioretty

[Agalloch]

Fair enough, but when your house is worth $200K and you're asking for $300K, don't be surprised when nobody comes calling.

True but if you ask for 200,000 , you will sell for less than that. If you ask for 300,000, you will most likely have at least 200,000 at the end.

Pacioretty wants to stay... Listen to his interviews

I think it's obvious he wants out. In his interviews, he's speaking like he's gone already. aka '' Montreal will always be home to me''...

It depends the way you see it, but I think he wants out and Bergevin would trade him if he get a center back.

 

[Goodbahd]

Can’t win with them. If Bergevin would’ve asked for less, fans would’ve said the return was too low.

Honestly, I’d want my GM to get the highest return possible. Pacioretty still has one year left on his contract wether he got moved at deadline or draft is irrelevant. We need a good return, and should be patient.

 

[Colt55]

Can’t win with them. If Bergevin would’ve asked for less, fans would’ve said the return was too low.

Honestly, I’d want my GM to get the highest return possible. Pacioretty still has one year left on his contract wether he got moved at deadline or draft is irrelevant. We need a good return, and should be patient.

Patches will get first good wing prospect maybe small add. But longer bergie waits the more that price goes down unless a bidding war happens. Which with patches being lw and do many options out there I don't think it will happen

 

[Scintillating10]

Pacioretty is another Subban, the Habs have mis-managed him. Whomever gets him though will get a goldmine

 

[MSSLYNX]

True but if you ask for 200,000 , you will sell for less than that. If you ask for 300,000, you will most likely have at least 200,000 at the end.
.

Lets pretend an independant evaluator says your house is worth 200k while using comparables and recent sales. He doesnt care if you raised your kids there or if the neighbor is a cutie.

If you wish to sell it fast, you might want to list it at 210.
And you will be glad to accept a 190k offer IF you are ready to move.
Bad idea to list it at 300k in order to get 220. You will lose most of your possible buyers even before they consider making a visit.

So the main thing is: are the Habs and/or the player ready to leave? If so look at past trades and be réady to accept a little bit under 200.

If the Habs consider resigning him and if Max still feels like playing in Mtl, then of course ask for 300.

Not a real estate agent but did sell a few properties using that logic.

 

[Agalloch]

Lets pretend an independant evaluator says your house is worth 200k while using comparables and recent sales. He doesnt care if you raised your kids there or if the neighbor is a cutie.

If you wish to sell it fast, you might want to list it at 210.
And you will be glad to accept a 190k offer IF you are ready to move.
Bad idea to list it at 300k in order to get 220. You will lose most of your possible buyers even before they consider making a visit.

So the main thing is: are the Habs and/or the player ready to leave? If so look at past trades and be réady to accept a little bit under 200.

If the Habs consider resigning him and if Max still feels like playing in Mtl, then of course ask for 300.

Not a real estate agent but did sell a few properties using that logic.

Well it's obvious that Bergevin isn't in a worry to trade him (like Sakic was with Duchene), he's signed for another year and maybe teams will want to talk to him about extension before acquiring him.

 

[BlueDream]

Yeah good thing the Wild didn't do that, they surely couldn't use Pacioretty's goal-scoring ability right now.

Coyle is pretty average, if I was Minnesota I'd re-look at this in the summer. That team needs offensive help.

 

[Bazeek]

Yeah good thing the Wild didn't do that, they surely couldn't use Pacioretty's goal-scoring ability right now.

Coyle is pretty average, if I was Minnesota I'd re-look at this in the summer. That team needs offensive help.

It does, but it doesn't need more old, declining players. The last god**** thing we need to do is trade for Pacioretty and pay him for his production from 2011-2017 while getting his production from 2018-whenever.

 

[BlueDream]

It does, but it doesn't need more old, declining players. The last god**** thing we need to do is trade for Pacioretty and pay him for his production from 2011-2017 while getting his production from 2018-whenever.

He’s 29 and had a down year, much like everyone else on his sorry team. I think it’s a bit false to say he’s declining already.

 

[Bazeek]

He’s 29 and had a down year, much like everyone else on his sorry team. I think it’s a bit false to say he’s declining already.

It might be false. Some forwards do play pretty well in to their 30's. Parise had back surgery this year and has looked resurgent, and there's hope that he'll have a good year next year too.

But a hell of a lot of them just fall off the face of the earth after about 28 or so. Minnesota's already up to its neck in underperforming vets on poor contracts. Is Pacioretty the sure thing that you put your chips on?

 

[BlueDream]

It might be false. Some forwards do play pretty well in to their 30's. Parise had back surgery this year and has looked resurgent, and there's hope that he'll have a good year next year too.

But a hell of a lot of them just fall off the face of the earth after about 28 or so. Minnesota's already up to its neck in underperforming vets on poor contracts. Is Pacioretty the sure thing that you put your chips on?

Maybe not. But I was kinda just using him as an example. Minnesota needs to make a big move to acquire a goal scorer like that this summer. No more deals for guys like Ennis and Hanzal.

 

[Bazeek]

Maybe not. But I was kinda just using him as an example. Minnesota needs to make a big move to acquire a goal scorer like that this summer. No more deals for guys like Ennis and Hanzal.

I agree with you there, but like most real deals it's probably not one that'll see a lot of discussion on this forum beforehand. Considering who Fletcher's been rumored to be after in the last 12 months (Drouin, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty) he seems to agree with you too.

 

[72hockey guy]

He’s 29 and had a down year, much like everyone else on his sorry team. I think it’s a bit false to say he’s declining already.

no in actuality its false to say he isnt declining

last year 35 goals 67 points
this year 17 goals 37 points

any we you slice it that is a decline. so as such he IS DECLINING,

will the decline continue, who knows.

but as a point of FACT he is declining, that cant be argued whats in question is will it continue or will he rebound to what he was before? the only ones being false here are those that say he's not declining

words have meanings for a reason

 

[Bazeek]

no in actuality its false to say he isnt declining

last year 35 goals 67 points
this year 17 goals 37 points

any we you slice it that is a decline. so as such he IS DECLINING,

will the decline continue, who knows.

but as a point of FACT he is declining, that cant be argued whats in question is will it continue or will he rebound to what he was before? the only ones being false here are those that say he's not declining

words have meanings for a reason

I think if you put Pacioretty on a playoff team he rebounds. That part's easy. It's the contract negotiation after the "rebound" that's more difficult. Habs fans understandably want to trade him as a guy that'll do what he's been doing for another 4-6 years. Fans of teams trading for him see more like 1-3 years of reliable production before he turns into Jason Pominville.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

no in actuality its false to say he isnt declining

last year 35 goals 67 points
this year 17 goals 37 points

any we you slice it that is a decline. so as such he IS DECLINING,

will the decline continue, who knows.

but as a point of FACT he is declining, that cant be argued whats in question is will it continue or will he rebound to what he was before? the only ones being false here are those that say he's not declining

words have meanings for a reason

This works great if all things were equal between the 2 seasons, Habs sucked all around.

He had a shitty year, if he had Radulov and Markov this year and put up 37 points I'd agree with you

 

[BlueDream]

no in actuality its false to say he isnt declining

last year 35 goals 67 points
this year 17 goals 37 points

any we you slice it that is a decline. so as such he IS DECLINING,

will the decline continue, who knows.

but as a point of FACT he is declining, that cant be argued whats in question is will it continue or will he rebound to what he was before? the only ones being false here are those that say he's not declining

words have meanings for a reason

Yeah, you have no idea what the word declining means.

Next.

 

[72hockey guy]

This works great if all things were equal between the 2 seasons, Habs sucked all around.

He had a ****ty year, if he had Radulov and Markov this year and put up 37 points I'd agree with you

he did, but it still doesnt change the meaning of the word. he is declining, of that there is no question. what you need to do is convince others that it will not continue

 

[72hockey guy]

Yeah, you have no idea what the word declining means.

Next.

obviously YOU are the one with no idea what the word declining means

I will provide it for you since you quite obviously are either ignorant or dont know how to use a dictionary

present participle: declining
1.
(typically of something regarded as good) become smaller, fewer, or less; decrease.
"the birth rate continued to decline"

NEXT

 

[72hockey guy]

This works great if all things were equal between the 2 seasons, Habs sucked all around.

He had a ****ty year, if he had Radulov and Markov this year and put up 37 points I'd agree with you

that may indeed be a mitigating factor, I myself have speculated the Loss of Markov hurt Pacioretty greatly, but it still doesnt mean he isnt in decline, he is, thats factual. both seasons happened They are in the past. the question remains will the decline continue

Some hab fans refuse to accept whats happened has in fact happened

just because you dont like whats happened doesnt make it any less real

 

[Maitz]

LA would need him right now, they can’t buy a goal.

 

[smirob]

no in actuality its false to say he isnt declining

last year 35 goals 67 points
this year 17 goals 37 points

any we you slice it that is a decline. so as such he IS DECLINING,

will the decline continue, who knows.

but as a point of FACT he is declining, that cant be argued whats in question is will it continue or will he rebound to what he was before? the only ones being false here are those that say he's not declining

words have meanings for a reason

So you would agree that Austin Matthews falls into the category of players who are “declining” based on this logic?

And prior to this season, Gaudreau and Kopitar?

If all you boil it down to is points, while ignoring that there are down years, you will get eaten alive when explaining that a player having a sophomore slump is on the “decline”.

It’s intellectually dishonest to say a player who didn’t meet or beat their previous years stats is on the decline. There needs to be a few seasons of falling off the map before this is true imo.

 

[72hockey guy]

So you would agree that Austin Matthews falls into the category of players who are “declining” based on this logic?

And prior to this season, Gaudreau and Kopitar?

If all you boil it down to is points, while ignoring that there are down years, you will get eaten alive when explaining that a player having a sophomore slump is on the “decline”.

It’s intellectually dishonest to say a player who didn’t meet or beat their previous years stats is on the decline. There needs to be a few seasons of falling off the map before this is true imo.

theres nothing to dispute they did decline. i just happen to think that saying any player who has scored 30 goals 5 seasons in a row and failing to acknowledge that they declined significantly in the most recent year is patently dishonest. especially when the player in question is at an age where players do generally decline.

wayne gretzky for the decade leading up to his age 29 season averaged 184 points a season, after that he never came close to that figure. in fact he had only one season where he came within 50 yes fifty points of that. so who are you trying to kid?

if i can happen to the greatest of all time then yes it can happen to Pacioretty

and you know what the biggest factor in this is, none of the players you mentioned were traded coming off their declining season, each of them were kept because their teams believed they'd bounce back, but here we are and virtually every single hab fan wannts him gone, oh yes you all have your excuses, the team needs a center, your rebuilding, his contract is almost up, but the fact is if you really believed in Pacioretty like those players teams did, youd be keeping him. because every team needs guys who can score. but habs fans dont want him, and you got a million and one excuses. too bad for you nobody is buying them

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

theres nothing to dispute they did decline. i just happen to think that saying any player who has scored 30 goals 5 seasons in a row and failing to acknowledge that they declined significantly in the most recent year is patently dishonest. especially when the player in question is at an age where players do generally decline.

wayne gretzky for the decade leading up to his age 29 season averaged 184 points a season, after that he never came close to that figure. in fact he had only one season where he came within 50 yes fifty points of that. so who are you trying to kid?

if i can happen to the greatest of all time then yes it can happen to Pacioretty

And his career numbers are what? 500 now?

 

[Omar]

It does, but it doesn't need more old, declining players. The last god**** thing we need to do is trade for Pacioretty and pay him for his production from 2011-2017 while getting his production from 2018-whenever.

Said anyone who regrets undervaluing a player who’s had one bad year in their career and bounces back.

 

[72hockey guy]

Said anyone who regrets undervaluing a player who’s had one bad year in their career and bounces back.

or anyone who didn't get suckered into overpaying for a player who was declining. Which given the total lack of interest by Hab fans to keep him....is likely the case here.

to me that is the most damning evidence of all. I've been a hockey fan for almost 50 years and I've never seen a fan base want to trade a former star away after one poor year, this badly ever. You'd think he killed someone. Why would anyone want a player so unwanted by his own fans...?