Friedman: Bergevin’s asks for Pacioretty

[Newsworthy]

Gallagher, Alex, and Drouin worth as much as Max
Youth and potential account for a lot
Max is also a free agent soon looking for a big payday and at 29 he isn't gonna get better.
I'm also not sold on his brand of hockey and would rather have any of the aforementioned players over him in my team.

 

[72hockey guy]

Well I'll argue you imagine incorrectly. 37 points at 29 years of age is what you define as an outlier. It may ultimately have a negative effect on his trade return, but that would be very minor to the team looking for the best available option to address the need of a goal-scoring winger.

That being said, I'm not really disputing the quality of return as mentioned in my previous posts. The Habs have replaced Pacioretty internally already. Their priorities this summer should be to add at least two quality centers, maximize whatever return they can get on Pacioretty and find a top four left shot defenseman.

except its not an outlier. the great Wayne Gretzky averaged 184 points a season the ten years including his age 29 season and he never hit that mark again. in fact he had only one season the rest of his storied career where he came within fifty (50) points of that number so it is hardly an outlier. most human beings have begun their athletic decline by then. Steroids may have tweaked that in baseball but even that has been corrected

 

[72hockey guy]

Gallagher, Alex, and Drouin worth as much as Max
Youth and potential account for a lot
Max is also a free agent soon looking for a big payday and at 29 he isn't gonna get better.
I'm also not sold on his brand of hockey and would rather have any of the aforementioned players over him in my team.

very well said,

its a reflection of the game today youth, speed, and contractual control. its why I think Bergevin has really hurt the canadiens

I really feel terrible for guys like Hope and Fault and Fracture because they dont fool themselves, they are just as logical as I am and they dont deserve this, but guys like Omar and Draft Day who stubbornly insist that everythng is fine will only learn the hard way

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Gallagher, Alex, and Drouin worth as much as Max
Youth and potential account for a lot
Max is also a free agent soon looking for a big payday and at 29 he isn't gonna get better.
I'm also not sold on his brand of hockey and would rather have any of the aforementioned players over him in my team.

Everything in your post is correct and it's why we would keep those 3 cause they fit both a rebuild and re-tool

 

[72hockey guy]

I

Everything in your post is correct and it's why we would keep those 3 cause they fit both a rebuild and re-tool

exactly so its why you value them more than Pacioretty its only common sense. at least you understand that

its the ones who blindly refuse to look at things that way who, cant understand that value isnt set in stone. its fluid and varies from team to team

 

[ismelofhockey]

I get that, but what would lead anyone to believe Drouin will be better? He’s never had good point totals and regressed this year stats wise.

That’s not factoring in his attitude issues.

Drouin is a serviceable NHLer who was vastly overvalued by Mtl because he’s a Franco boy from Quebec.

His value, in my opinion, is not overly high to other NHL clubs as was evidenced by nobody offering what Yzerman wanted when he was on the block.

Yeah let's not pretend like he wasn't a 22 year old 3rd overall pick coming off a breakout season in what was only his 2nd full year in the NHL. Yzerman hadn't traded him before because Drouin had requested a trade and Yzerman was smart enough not to sell low.
He had a rough year on a team where everyone had a rough year except Gallagher, adjusting to a new city, new coach, new team and a new position. So let's just calm down the whole "serviceable NHLer" bit. His value was definitely high around the league.

It's so easy for people to bash Montreal for wanting the team to reflect the aspirations of the fanbase, but the facts don't support it. Montreal's coaches have all had successful careers in the NHL after leaving the Habs, Montreal has not drafted Quebec-born players ahead of where they should have been picked, and Montreal has not given absurd contracts to free agents from Quebec. As for GMs, Gainey was a well respected hockey mind who wasn't just a legendary player in the Habs's organisation. He had also paid his dues in management at the NHL level. Bergevin was seen as a rising star in an organisation that had achieved a modern day dynasty. He was very far from being a choice based solely on the candidate's last name.

 

[belair]

except its not an outlier. the great Wayne Gretzky averaged 184 points a season the ten years including his age 29 season and he never hit that mark again. in fact he had only one season the rest of his storied career where he came within fifty (50) points of that number so it is hardly an outlier. most human beings have begun their athletic decline by then. Steroids may have tweaked that in baseball but even that has been corrected

Wayne Gretzky? What are you even talking about?

Max Pacioretty is 29 and for his entire career he's scored at a mid-60s rate for every year except this one. Four straight seasons of 30 goals then this one. If you think this is the beginning of a steep decline in his career, I just don't know what to say to you. You were probably convinced Eric Staal was done two years ago as well.

Regardless, my point was made--Pacioretty is the one they should trade because he's going to end up being the most expensive. The return isn't even a concern. They'll get what they get.

 

[72hockey guy]

Wayne Gretzky? What are you even talking about?

Max Pacioretty is 29 and for his entire career he's scored at a mid-60s rate for every year except this one. Four straight seasons of 30 goals then this one. If you think this is the beginning of a steep decline in his career, I just don't know what to say to you. You were probably convinced Eric Staal was done two years ago as well.

Regardless, my point was made--Pacioretty is the one they should trade because he's going to end up being the most expensive. The return isn't even a concern. They'll get what they get.

what Wayne Gretzky has to do with it is his decline started at the same age as Pacioretty

if it can happen to Gretzky it can happen to anyone

thats what it has to do with pacioretty

I get it you dont want to believe it but it does happen and neither one of us can prove it either way but teams have a right and a responsibility to be cautious

and there is nothing you CAN say, other than to keep him and hope he bounces back, but none of you are willing to do that, so all that says is that none of you really believe he will bounce back.....which is what I and so many others have said all along

thats why youre really so desparate to trade him

if you really thought hell yeah he's gonna be just as good as he ever was youd keep him and be happy to, but you dont really believe that

thats why nobody stepped up to trade for him, they are waiting to see if hes finished

and obviously the return does matter at least to Bergevin, or he would have accepted what ever he could get, unless you think nobody offered anything

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

what Wayne Gretzky has to do with it is his decline started at the same age as Pacioretty

if it can happen to Gretzky it can happen to anyone

thats what it has to do with pacioretty

I get it you dont want to believe it but it does happen and neither one of us can prove it either way but teams have a right and a responsibility to be cautious

and there is nothing you CAN say, other than to keep him and hope he bounces back, but none of you are willing to do that, so all that says is that none of you really believe he will bounce back.....which is what I and so many others have said all along

thats why youre really so desparate to trade him

if you really thought hell yeah he's gonna be just as good as he ever was youd keep him and be happy to, but you dont really believe that

thats why nobody stepped up to trade for him, they are waiting to see if hes finished

and obviously the return does matter at least to Bergevin, or he would have accepted what ever he could get, unless you think nobody offered anything

Christ Pacioretty wasn't even born when Gretzky was in his prime

Max had nobody to play with last year and we 100% sucked, the fact people ignore that when looking at his 'decline' is a joke

Most Habs fan don't believe he's done, most actually expect him to make us look like shit when he puts up 40 Gs next year playing with a legitimate #1C somewhere else

You will find most that don't want him back as Captain that's about it

We just know he's unlikely to resign here, doesn't fit our rebuilding window and he's our best bet to help us find a C

We have Chucky and Drouin who can play Top 6 LW