Rumor: Berger: Parayko to the Leafs?

[Drew311]

Hard to take this post serious when you're using Brown as evidence that the net result will be positive.

I did not see a 20 goal scorer last season. His shot declined. He doesn't have an elite shot like Nylander and Matthews probaby finishes with >= 15 points less with Brown as his winger instead of Nylander. You seem to forget Hyman-Matthews-Nylander was a top 5 line in the entire league. You honestly think Brown will maintain that? Matthews doesn't finish point per game playing the season with Brown. With Nylander + powerplay, he most likely does.

Also no indication Hainsey will be re-used as a top pairing dman. He was badly exposed in the playoffs and management saw every second of it.

I'm not sure if you grasp the concept of net result. If Matthews's production dips playing with Brown, there is a very good chance Brown's production goes up playing with a top 10 center in the NHL. Net result would be negligible. Plus we're not factoring in players getting better. I see Matthews taking a major step forward this season (health permitted). Tavares turned pretty much every linemate he had in NYI into a stud. There is no reason to believe Matthews won't do the same.

 

[kindalaidback]

But the point is Brown is already a 15 - 20 goal scorer without the help of Matthews or Tavares. What could he be with consistent top six playing time and maybe 2nd PP? If we're looking at net results, what about the 30 - 40 points we would be getting with Parayko? If he's a point man on the loaded Leafs PP I don't think we're giving much up offensively.

??? he played with matthews and kadri in his rookie season, and guess what-- he only scored 39 points, plus pp.

 

[Obliviate]

hi obliterate maybe u should read this one

statsny too

Stastny was traded at the deadline. What's your point?

And he's right, you should account for the differential. Let's do it now, shall we?

OUT
Berglund: 26pts (LY), 25pt 3YR AVG
Sobotka: 31pts (LY), 27pt 3YR AVG
Brodziak: 33pts (LY), 20pt 3YR AVG
Upshall: 19pts (LY), 17pt 3YR AVG

Points out by 3YR AVG: 89

IN
O'Reilly: 61pts (LY), 59pt 3YR AVG
Maroon: 43pts (LY), 42pt 3YR AVG
Bozak: 43pts (LY), 44pt 3YR AVG
Perron: 66pts (LY), 50pt 3YR AVG

Points in by 3YR AVG: 195

For those of you who will look to disparage these results by arguing this is not how points work,
it's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that the Blues have made significant offensive improvements. The players brought in have a much higher offensive pedigree than those who left.

If you want to add in Stastny then you can't ignore the return of Fabbri who was out all last year. The difference there will be fairly close to a wash.

 

[Drew311]

??? he played with matthews and kadri in his rookie season, and guess what-- he only scored 39 points, plus pp.

He had 36 points in 2016-17 and 6 were pp points. This was is rookie season...aren't players supposed to get better as their careers go along?

Last year with very little help from Matthews/Kadri he had 14 goals / 28 points.....2 points from the PP. Not a massive drop from his rookie year, with much less top six opportunities. If he's gets consistent top six time with Matthews he's a 25 - 25 player. For god sakes, Hyman was a 40 point player with Matthews and he doesn't have half the skill Brown has.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

lock this trash

 

[Havoc]

Making Matthews PPG is not the goal. The goal is to win 16 playoff games.

That's cute but you're quoting a comment that is talking about net result. Obviously everyone will agree with the winning the cup option

 

[Ratboy]

Rumour: Rick Nash to Toronto.

 

[Menzinger]

There is no way that Brown is a 30 point guy playing on Matthews wing. The kid can put up 15 - 20 goals playing bottom six minutes. Who knows what kind of player Nylander would be if he hadn't been playing the majority of his NHL career with Matthews? He still has a lot of flaws, primarily his compete level and willingness to get the puck in traffic. Matthews is an elite center and increases the production of his wingers, no matter who they are. Again, this is the benefit of having three fantasic centers. People don't get to watch Parayko enough. He's fantastic and exactly what the team needs.

Brown had a 14% sh% during his rookie season - he’s unlikely going to repeat that, meaning he’s unlikely to hit 20 goals again. I like the player, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be more than a depth guy, even if he’s glued to matthews (or Tavares) for a whole season.

I think you’re seriously underrating Nylander here too.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Making Matthews PPG is not the goal. The goal is to win 16 playoff games.

Yeah the best way to succeed is to make sure our individual players are put into situations to fail. Getting the most out of your players has never helped

 

[Pookie]

Stastny was traded at the deadline. What's your point?

And he's right, you should account for the differential. Let's do it now, shall we?

OUT
Berglund: 26pts (LY), 25pt 3YR AVG
Sobotka: 31pts (LY), 27pt 3YR AVG
Brodziak: 33pts (LY), 20pt 3YR AVG
Upshall: 19pts (LY), 17pt 3YR AVG

Points out by 3YR AVG: 89

IN
O'Reilly: 61pts (LY), 59pt 3YR AVG
Maroon: 43pts (LY), 42pt 3YR AVG
Bozak: 43pts (LY), 44pt 3YR AVG
Perron: 66pts (LY), 50pt 3YR AVG

Points in by 3YR AVG: 195

For those of you who will look to disparage these results by arguing this is not how points work,
it's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that the Blues have made significant offensive improvements. The players brought in have a much higher offensive pedigree than those who left.

If you want to add in Stastny then you can't ignore the return of Fabbri who was out all last year. The difference there will be fairly close to a wash.

100% agree they added offence but that’s not how points work.

 

[brokeu91]

I'm a Blues fan coming in peace. I really don't see the Blues trading Parayko. He's locked up for a while, he's a good player, and we don't really have a replacement for him. As a Blues fan, I'd be happy to trade you Gunnarson or JBouw for pretty much anything you want to give us, but I don't really see Parayko leaving. I think a trade was possible before we made the trades/signings we did in the off season because our depth at forward was pretty slim, but now we're pretty much set. Really we need a goaltender and to somehow keep our players we have now.

Anyway, good luck this season...maybe we'll meet in the finals.

 

[Pookie]

Yeah the best way to succeed is to make sure our individual players are put into situations to fail. Getting the most out of your players has never helped

Yeah, better that your favourite players amass individual point totals.

Who wants to watch playoff hockey late in the spring anyways?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

as you guys see the Skinner trade. yes that proves a lop sided trade can happen. I just dont see that being possible here. I dont even know why St. Louis would wanna trade Parayko with the trades they have made so far

 

[LeafFever]

as you guys see the Skinner trade. yes that proves a lop sided trade can happen. I just dont see that being possible here. I dont even know why St. Louis would wanna trade Parayko with the trades they have made so far

When you go incredibly cheap in paying your GM and hire Don Waddell, yes.
We are so blessed the Leafs had 2 great candidates for GM already in-house and Lou wanted to stay. That's without looking outside the organization.

 

[egd27]

That's cute but you're quoting a comment that is talking about net result. Obviously everyone will agree with the winning the cup option

It appeared to talking about the effect losing Nylander may have on Matthew's point production, which is a very specific result. A net result would need to include the effect Parayko's addition and Nylander's subtraction would have on the team.

Or perhaps I misinterpreted your meaning.

 

[Mess]

ok, I'll bite - one goalie plays at a time, maybe? whereas 12 forwards participate every game?

The assertion was that they lack scoring. I showed that they added quite a significant amount of forward production. This isn't rocket surgery.

It does demonstrate the point of how desperate the Blues are that they're trying to grab anyone and anything and toss it against the wall and see if anything sticks to increase their offense.

This is the 3rd time they're bringing in Perron after giving him away in the expansion draft to Vegas. Leafs fans couldn't be happier that 3rd liner Bozak is gone and Maroon is another cast off brought in for more depth all in their 30s and already in decline.

A young like Nylander is a much different long-term solution not short-term gap filler. Ask yourself if the shoe was on the other foot if you would prefer Nylander or if adding Perron, Bozak and Maroon is just as good to increase your offense?

On the other hand the Blues are certainly not shopping a young stud 6-6 RHD in Parayko, just like Leafs are certainly not shopping Nylander either, but to get you have to give also and that is why this is idea is being tossed around as potential fair principles in the trade with both teams trading from a position of strength and addressing a position of need.

 

[therealkoho]

Why is there a Howard Berger thread?

uhm What is people love to pontificate, Alex?

 

[Obliviate]

It does demonstrate the point of how desperate the Blues are that they're trying to grab anyone and anything and toss it against the wall and see if anything sticks to increase their offense.

This is the 3rd time they're bringing in Perron after giving him away in the expansion draft to Vegas. Leafs fans couldn't be happier that 3rd liner Bozak is gone and Maroon is another cast off brought in for more depth all in their 30s and already in decline.

A young like Nylander is a much different long-term solution not short-term gap filler. Ask yourself if the shoe was on the other foot if you would prefer Nylander or if adding Perron, Bozak and Maroon is just as good to increase your offense?

On the other hand the Blues are certainly not shopping a young stud 6-6 RHD in Parayko, just like Leafs are certainly not shopping Nylander either, but to get you have to give also and that is why this is idea is being tossed around as potential fair principles in the trade with both teams trading from a position of strength and addressing a position of need.

once again - supply and demand.

All teams throw shit against the wall to see what sticks. This isn't fantasy hockey. There is massive competition for limited resources, and more often than not you have to make concessions when things don't swing your way.

You made an assertion, it was proven not be true. Simple.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I'm a Blues fan coming in peace. I really don't see the Blues trading Parayko. He's locked up for a while, he's a good player, and we don't really have a replacement for him. As a Blues fan, I'd be happy to trade you Gunnarson or JBouw for pretty much anything you want to give us, but I don't really see Parayko leaving. I think a trade was possible before we made the trades/signings we did in the off season because our depth at forward was pretty slim, but now we're pretty much set. Really we need a goaltender and to somehow keep our players we have now.

Anyway, good luck this season...maybe we'll meet in the finals.

Nonody believes a has been ex mapleleafs beat reporter that was nothing hit a negative influence on the viewing public and media pressers consistently in the past.

Berger has Zero credibility in this market. You guys aren't trading him. He is as much your core player as Rielly is for us,

Cheers! Nobody believes it and I personally would not click on any Berger crap. Definitely wouldn't link it to a thread lol

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yeah, better that your favourite players amass individual point totals.

Who wants to watch playoff hockey late in the spring anyways?

do you think Matthews having 2 points in the playoffs helped or hurt the Leafs in the playoffs? do you think Andersen being the 2nd worst goalie in the first round helped or hurt? If you don't understand that players need to succeed in order for the team to do well, I'm not sure what to say

 

[Mess]

once again - supply and demand.

All teams throw **** against the wall to see what sticks. This isn't fantasy hockey. There is massive competition for limited resources, and more often than not you have to make concessions when things don't swing your way.

You made an assertion, it was proven not be true. Simple.

The assertion was proven true because STL was so desperate for offense that they turned to the inflationary process of overpaying via UFA supply and demand economics to attempt to patch a poor offense that was bottom 8 in the NHL last year.

Actions speak louder than words here and paying Tyler Bozak $5 mil a season for his 11 goals and 43 points (that resulted from playing with JVR and Marner and on a top PP unit) and getting a 3rd line C is pure desperation on their part, because without his former linemates Bozzie offensive #'s would be even lower. I'd be willing to bet that had the Leafs given Bozak a ridiculous $5 mil a season to resign him for his production you would be screaming bloody murder, but for STL its problem solved.

You see that as problem solved for STL and no need for a young stud like Nylander required now, while I see these UFA signings as a desperate attempt to try and solve a problem with the offense, with a bunch of short term overpaid aging UFA players to stem the bleeding until better long-term solution are available like a trade of Parayko for Nylander.

Perhaps STL has zero intention of dealing their young stud RHD man, so tossing foolish money at UFA is all they could/would do.

 

[Morbo]

I'm a Blues fan coming in peace. I really don't see the Blues trading Parayko. He's locked up for a while, he's a good player, and we don't really have a replacement for him. As a Blues fan, I'd be happy to trade you Gunnarson or JBouw for pretty much anything you want to give us, but I don't really see Parayko leaving. I think a trade was possible before we made the trades/signings we did in the off season because our depth at forward was pretty slim, but now we're pretty much set. Really we need a goaltender and to somehow keep our players we have now.

Anyway, good luck this season...maybe we'll meet in the finals.

It's all good, you have nothing to fear from Howard Berger.

 

[Bluelines]

Stastny was traded at the deadline. What's your point?

And he's right, you should account for the differential. Let's do it now, shall we?

OUT
Berglund: 26pts (LY), 25pt 3YR AVG
Sobotka: 31pts (LY), 27pt 3YR AVG
Brodziak: 33pts (LY), 20pt 3YR AVG
Upshall: 19pts (LY), 17pt 3YR AVG

Points out by 3YR AVG: 89

IN
O'Reilly: 61pts (LY), 59pt 3YR AVG
Maroon: 43pts (LY), 42pt 3YR AVG
Bozak: 43pts (LY), 44pt 3YR AVG
Perron: 66pts (LY), 50pt 3YR AVG

Points in by 3YR AVG: 195

For those of you who will look to disparage these results by arguing this is not how points work,
it's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that the Blues have made significant offensive improvements. The players brought in have a much higher offensive pedigree than those who left.

If you want to add in Stastny then you can't ignore the return of Fabbri who was out all last year. The difference there will be fairly close to a wash.

Why are you doing a 3yr average, you trying to establish a trend?

 

[Bluelines]

I'm a Blues fan coming in peace. I really don't see the Blues trading Parayko. He's locked up for a while, he's a good player, and we don't really have a replacement for him. As a Blues fan, I'd be happy to trade you Gunnarson or JBouw for pretty much anything you want to give us, but I don't really see Parayko leaving. I think a trade was possible before we made the trades/signings we did in the off season because our depth at forward was pretty slim, but now we're pretty much set. Really we need a goaltender and to somehow keep our players we have now.

Anyway, good luck this season...maybe we'll meet in the finals.

Cheers.

 

[Bluelines]

When you go incredibly cheap in paying your GM and hire Don Waddell, yes.
We are so blessed the Leafs had 2 great candidates for GM already in-house and Lou wanted to stay. That's without looking outside the organization.

Maybe he would consider trading Slavin. If I had my choice Parayko or Slavin, I'd take Slavin he is a better defender. May not be the better athlete but he plays D at a higher level than CP. That's not to say I wouldn't want CP, just Slavin skillset as a dman ranks higher on my list of qualities I like in Dmen.