Wow, lmao. I can assure you that a youngin like Nylander isn't sitting out and costing himself money because he's scared of Babcock.
Babcock
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Wow, lmao. I can assure you that a youngin like Nylander isn't sitting out and costing himself money because he's scared of Babcock.
White Shadow
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AuraSphere
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CantLoseWithMatthews
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Our roster last year was designed to at least win a round. And our roster this year is designed to contend for the cup. Let's see how he does
Boston was an overachieving pretender last year and Tampa exposed them for what they were. That should have been us getting out but kicked by Tampa in the 2nd round. Babcock had some awful blunders in those first 2 games.
BodaciousBeefBazooka
Go Leafs Go
2 losses back to back. I'll be back here after a win. I love the positive energy after 2 losses 
White Shadow
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If you want to use your misguided anger progressively direct it towards the NHL playoff format.
We played the #2 seed in the East in the first round last year. Pretty sure we weren't the #1 seed last year.
hector morrison
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White Shadow
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Dermott was soft as Nikki Minaj's ass last night. Lost three board battles that lead directly to Blues goals. He will learn from this and it's solid coaching.
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CantLoseWithMatthews
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White Shadow
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When he does something egregious I will call him on it. The Dermott move makes sense if you actually watched the game.
White Shadow
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DarkKnight
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Daisy Jane
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Okay I've read everything.
First of all - and I've had this debate with @CantLoseWithMatthews - (and a few others, like @weems), i personally believe that not a lot of blame is going for the people on the ice. People keep saying that It's the coaches job to get them ready for games. but isn't it the players job to make it applicable? (This isn't to say that Babcock shouldn't be fair game - I'm just saying, it shouldn't be. oh ho-hum, we're slow to start, this is Babcock's fault - because last year when we were the leagues best first period team, no one said. "Well this is a good sign for Babcock, getting the team ready." ) so it's either always applicable, or it's not. but it can't be "we had a bad start, so it's his fault, but we had a good start, yay babcock.)
To the people who are going "oh holy cats, bipolar fan base." I'll point out for the most part the people being upset/critiquing now are generally the ones who have been consistent, or always had an issue with Babcock, and have pointed issues when we were winning. So no. it's not.
People who are making this about losing two games - I personally think you're not seeing the forest for the trees. I don't think that is the issue. (I'll also not deny for some people it totally is, but we're focusing on most of the legitimate upset/anger, etc here). the issue is there are a lot of issues that have been present - even though we've done well every season - that is a cause for some serious concern. @Nithoniniel brought up the issues that he has had and CLWMatthews brings this up, and so does @Alerion ). Babcock is deploying some really seriously curious techniques that (in my opinion) can cost the Leafs the division. People can argue it's what cost them home ice last year, when the Leafs had that horrible horrible November/December. All teams have ugly periods. No one is ignoring/discounting that at all. But I think what frustrates people - or well me I don't like talking for others is that the issues that Babcock has (and he has them) shouldn't be issues at all. He adjusts awfully slow (almost way too late) and he doesn't use his lineup to the best of his abilities when the timing calls for it (mostly Powerplays, last minutes of play and Overtime).
If you're gonna load up the 1st unit - then, imo - run them for the two minutes, and figure out the next two shifts afterwards.
there are some people on this team who should not be an option during 3 on 3 overtime unless it's a quick breather or something.
you shouldn't be chasing matchups at all. we're the scary team. have everyone chase us, not the other way around.
Now if this has to do with trust - then he needs to talk to Dubas and get better players who can do what he wants. Because a lot of players he's depending on - isn't up to snuff for what he wants them to do. (or Dubas has to take his toys away). Now I will also stress - all coaches do this. So I have to say if people feel that if you remove Babcock, this will make the issue go away, it won't. Every coach has their pet, and their pet isn't the highest skilled person on the team. But i will say that for a lot of coaches - they also don't overplay their pet or cut down minutes from their star player and that's something I think Babcock does do.
The other issue is, is that despite what people wanted to think about last year - this team flat out has cup aspirations. and as we are in a top heavy division, you should not be throwing points away from teams you should smack around. I've always said this doesn't mean you can't lose to them - but that game should have at least ended in overtime/in a shoot out. it shouldn't have been a regulation loss, and it shouldn't have been nearly a shut out. A lot of the systems should already be known, and so this 'adjustment' (which always comes) shouldn't result in the Leafs looking flat and disinterested. adjustments should be made, and quickly. Thats on coaching. And if he doesn't adjust quick enough then whatever aspirations that the team has is not going to go far. again. And this year, I don't think it would be something that is easily passed over in a two weeks span.
But the issue is - who do you replace him with and more importantly - what message does that send to people. (which in this case does matter). Babcock basically said that when things get 'tough' will the organization have his back, and he was assured yes. (this doesn't mean he's above being fired) - but I do think it means there has a be a long road shown that babcock can't get it done, not just cite "they lost in the first round twice. - and the first time, even though they could have gone far, was 2 years removed from being dead last." - and arguing about the team was meant to lose or whatever isn't a real argument. Boudreau isn't getting fired anytime soon, I don't know if Quennville is and those would be the first two i'd pick to coach this team simply because both of them have coached and have had success with high-octane offensive teams, and can also help with them defensively, without eliminating the offense. and have the opportunity to win the cup. because quite frankly,if it takes us 13 years to win a cup - it's a waste of everyone's talents.
As i've said with regards to Burke, Torts, and others - the shelf life on Babcock's cup win is gone. He can't rest on that laurel anymore. he needs to adapt, and quickly, and (hot-takes aside) ignoring it because we're 6-3 isn't gonna help anyone. (being really obnoxious about it isn't gonna do that either). But also using denegrating nicknames (which is just silly), or saying he's only won with a stacked team - because - that's almost every team who wins.
but i don't think babcock should be handled with the "but the team is young/growing" gloves anymore. this is basically as good as it's gonna get (up front), and it's Dubas's job to find a stud at the back. It's Babcock's job to make it work on a top 5-6 team in the whole league level, and people criticising that fact is not a bad thing.
First of all - and I've had this debate with @CantLoseWithMatthews - (and a few others, like @weems), i personally believe that not a lot of blame is going for the people on the ice. People keep saying that It's the coaches job to get them ready for games. but isn't it the players job to make it applicable? (This isn't to say that Babcock shouldn't be fair game - I'm just saying, it shouldn't be. oh ho-hum, we're slow to start, this is Babcock's fault - because last year when we were the leagues best first period team, no one said. "Well this is a good sign for Babcock, getting the team ready." ) so it's either always applicable, or it's not. but it can't be "we had a bad start, so it's his fault, but we had a good start, yay babcock.)
To the people who are going "oh holy cats, bipolar fan base." I'll point out for the most part the people being upset/critiquing now are generally the ones who have been consistent, or always had an issue with Babcock, and have pointed issues when we were winning. So no. it's not.
People who are making this about losing two games - I personally think you're not seeing the forest for the trees. I don't think that is the issue. (I'll also not deny for some people it totally is, but we're focusing on most of the legitimate upset/anger, etc here). the issue is there are a lot of issues that have been present - even though we've done well every season - that is a cause for some serious concern. @Nithoniniel brought up the issues that he has had and CLWMatthews brings this up, and so does @Alerion ). Babcock is deploying some really seriously curious techniques that (in my opinion) can cost the Leafs the division. People can argue it's what cost them home ice last year, when the Leafs had that horrible horrible November/December. All teams have ugly periods. No one is ignoring/discounting that at all. But I think what frustrates people - or well me I don't like talking for others is that the issues that Babcock has (and he has them) shouldn't be issues at all. He adjusts awfully slow (almost way too late) and he doesn't use his lineup to the best of his abilities when the timing calls for it (mostly Powerplays, last minutes of play and Overtime).
If you're gonna load up the 1st unit - then, imo - run them for the two minutes, and figure out the next two shifts afterwards.
there are some people on this team who should not be an option during 3 on 3 overtime unless it's a quick breather or something.
you shouldn't be chasing matchups at all. we're the scary team. have everyone chase us, not the other way around.
Now if this has to do with trust - then he needs to talk to Dubas and get better players who can do what he wants. Because a lot of players he's depending on - isn't up to snuff for what he wants them to do. (or Dubas has to take his toys away). Now I will also stress - all coaches do this. So I have to say if people feel that if you remove Babcock, this will make the issue go away, it won't. Every coach has their pet, and their pet isn't the highest skilled person on the team. But i will say that for a lot of coaches - they also don't overplay their pet or cut down minutes from their star player and that's something I think Babcock does do.
The other issue is, is that despite what people wanted to think about last year - this team flat out has cup aspirations. and as we are in a top heavy division, you should not be throwing points away from teams you should smack around. I've always said this doesn't mean you can't lose to them - but that game should have at least ended in overtime/in a shoot out. it shouldn't have been a regulation loss, and it shouldn't have been nearly a shut out. A lot of the systems should already be known, and so this 'adjustment' (which always comes) shouldn't result in the Leafs looking flat and disinterested. adjustments should be made, and quickly. Thats on coaching. And if he doesn't adjust quick enough then whatever aspirations that the team has is not going to go far. again. And this year, I don't think it would be something that is easily passed over in a two weeks span.
But the issue is - who do you replace him with and more importantly - what message does that send to people. (which in this case does matter). Babcock basically said that when things get 'tough' will the organization have his back, and he was assured yes. (this doesn't mean he's above being fired) - but I do think it means there has a be a long road shown that babcock can't get it done, not just cite "they lost in the first round twice. - and the first time, even though they could have gone far, was 2 years removed from being dead last." - and arguing about the team was meant to lose or whatever isn't a real argument. Boudreau isn't getting fired anytime soon, I don't know if Quennville is and those would be the first two i'd pick to coach this team simply because both of them have coached and have had success with high-octane offensive teams, and can also help with them defensively, without eliminating the offense. and have the opportunity to win the cup. because quite frankly,if it takes us 13 years to win a cup - it's a waste of everyone's talents.
As i've said with regards to Burke, Torts, and others - the shelf life on Babcock's cup win is gone. He can't rest on that laurel anymore. he needs to adapt, and quickly, and (hot-takes aside) ignoring it because we're 6-3 isn't gonna help anyone. (being really obnoxious about it isn't gonna do that either). But also using denegrating nicknames (which is just silly), or saying he's only won with a stacked team - because - that's almost every team who wins.
but i don't think babcock should be handled with the "but the team is young/growing" gloves anymore. this is basically as good as it's gonna get (up front), and it's Dubas's job to find a stud at the back. It's Babcock's job to make it work on a top 5-6 team in the whole league level, and people criticising that fact is not a bad thing.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
I think Babcocks open to some fair criticism the season so far, saying needs to be fired is silly, but the team I think should be playing better than it is.
And particular he needs to stop pretending that Hainsey (and even Marleau for that matter) are the players they used to be....
And particular he needs to stop pretending that Hainsey (and even Marleau for that matter) are the players they used to be....
diceman934
Help is on the way.
What a joke. Leading in 3rd period of the 7 game of a series and you are blaming match ups. I blame the far to many cowards we have on the team.
Daisy Jane
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like i said a lot of people saying that now are people who have been saying ti last year so there is the consistency.
DarkKnight
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To be fair, he started using the "third" pair more, scaling back Hainsey 5 v 5. Last night Dermott's ice time was down, he had a rough night, but we have seen it where that third pair played more than Hainsey, so I see some evolution. I will say Hainsey has looked better than the beginning of the season. Marleau has been quite concerning, it's not an easy fix, were stuck with him.
No need to read rest of this thread folks, this pretty much captures everything that needs to be captured from all parties from both sides of the equation
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Well put.
As I said last night; my fear is, they are going down the exact same path again this year. This team as not been overly impressive this year and something has to change.
diceman934
Help is on the way.
I have coached for over 30 years and last year was my last. Parents/players and fans all think they can coach better. Think being the important word. Not everything is as it seems. We have played two very good games the last two. Limited scoring chances against but not creating enough good chances at the same time. Reason why... in my opinion Babs is not getting enough buy in to a very simply concept, play below the puck in our zone and be prepared to battle and sacrifice in all areas of the ice to win.
Johnsson who many on here thought should have been playing ahead of Hyman last year is afraid and it shows in his game far to much. The sad part is that Kappy has not been much better. Our best line the last 3 games has been Kadri line as they are all willing to take a hit to make a play.
I laugh when people attack Babs for playing players who play a team game and insist he is stupid. Rewarding players who are fearful with ice time is stupid.
Daisy Jane
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and that is the concern i think people are having but just not articulating well by a lot of ppl.
now people wanna poo poo on Marleau - i think he's been very honest in saying it's an adjustment playing with matthews. it's evident and we're seeing it. he needs to be moved down. same with Hainsey. We can't move him down until we get Nylander (or someone who can handle being up there). So he's getting a Mulligan from me. Hainsey shouldn't be there, and that's where i put on Dubas because that's Dubas job. And i don't think wants to put Dermott so high (yet), and nothing else works.
which is why Babcock is over-compensating. which is why the offense is suffering.
Again.
so deal with Nylander (trade or otherwise).
replace Nylander-forwardly
move Hainsey down.
then readjust. and see what we've got.
saffronleaf
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Daisy Jane
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Does Brown penalty kill?
because we had 3 penalties, thus he'd probably play more than matthews.
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