Babcock IV (undermining the GM and depth issues?)

[diceman934]

Not by himself.....I was with him on that pick.

As was I. Not many on here wanted him. It was Hanifin or Strome for most. Some wanted anther D man. Most wanted a center.

 

[MyBudJT]

There's a pretty big difference between calling out your players' efforts (something the players themselves have total control over) and suggesting that the depth you have available to you isn't good enough (something the players themselves have 0 control over).

I don't see the big difference. First of all, it's notnlike Babcock's statement was wrong... Secondly, both could be used to motivate the team to prove the coach wrong.

 

[IBeL34f]

I don't see the big difference. First of all, it's notnlike Babcock's statement was wrong... Secondly, both could be used to motivate the team to prove the coach wrong.

You don't see the big difference between "You're not giving me your best" and "Your best isn't good enough"?

If Babcock is using "You're not good enough" as his motivational approach for this team, I've been wrong about him from the start.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Our GM is a ****ing balloon, Babcock stays before him.

 

[Bomber0104]

As was I. Not many on here wanted him. It was Hanifin or Strome for most. Some wanted anther D man. Most wanted a center.

Ahhh the good 'ol days...

I liked Marner and Hanifin.

Feel like I hit the ball out of the park on this one (from March 2015):

If Marner is drafted by Toronto and is a better winger at the pro level than Strome is at the centre position then Toronto wins.

#1 LW/RW > #2C

This is ultimately what I feel is in the cards here.

Dylan Strome or Mitch Marner

 

[MyBudJT]

You don't see the big difference between "You're not giving me your best" and "Your best isn't good enough"?

If Babcock is using "You're not good enough" as his motivational approach for this team, I've been wrong about him from the start.

How is any different than questioning a players compete or will to win?

They're all confrontational....

 

[IBeL34f]

How is any different than questioning a players compete or will to win?

They're all confrontational....

I already explained how it was different - One is something that the players themselves can adjust and control, while the other is not.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Muzzin it isn't perfect but..... (who says that after your GM trades for a very good d-man?)
If our GM can help us at the deadline....... (again, really?)
We don't have the depth others do...... (lots of depth, and even if were true, you don't say that publicly)
Other teams don't have to overplay guys..... (I don't even know what he meant by this - the only guys he overplays are guys he shouldn't)
I didn't think I gave our team with that lineup as good an opportunity as I might have wanted ( Awwww did Dubas ask you to play someone you didn't want to? Again, who says that publicly?)

 

[56 Years No Cup]

If you think that's all I said on the subject then you're not paying attention.

I don't know why you're bothering with him. He's playing the denial game and you're falling right in.

 

[MyBudJT]

I already explained how it was different - One is something that the players themselves can adjust and control, while the other is not.

I don't see it that way... Just because you say or think you don't have adequate depth doesn't mean your depth guys can't get better...

 

[IPS]

Babcock reportedly was pushing for the Leafs would have taken Hanifin in the 2015 draft over Marner.

Folks should let that sink in before they start to advocate allowing Babs to make GM level decisions for this roster

Prime reason why he needs to stay in his own lane.

 

[egd27]

Because I don't see a single other ****ing coach in the entire league calling out his roster make-up like that. Not a single one. It's not normal to say stuff like this.

Tocchet says stuff to the reporter in Arizona all the time. Same with the guy in Florida and his reporter

 

[A1LeafNation]

Tocchet says stuff to the reporter in Arizona all the time. Same with the guy in Florida and his reporter

Share some examples please.

 

[MyBudJT]

Prime reason why he needs to stay in his own lane.

Although I agree with this sentiment, I think it's fine for a coach to have a preference....

Additionally, I dont think CAR handled Hanifin's development the best they could have. Hed probably be a better player if given the opportunity to develop properly.

 

[IBeL34f]

I don't see it that way... Just because you say or think you don't have adequate depth doesn't mean your depth guys can't get better...

“But the thing about a team is you have 23 spots and your minor-league team, and you’re supposed to build the best program you can and have as much depth so you don’t miss people.
“If you have enough, you don’t miss a beat … There’s other teams that have done a better job, with players out, than we have in moving forward.”

That doesn't sound to me like a guy who's got a lot of faith in his depth guys simply getting better. That sounds more to me like a guy who doesn't think his team's system/program is where it should/needs to be.

I've made it no secret that I've liked Babcock so far in his tenure here, nor have I made it a secret that I believe there's still plenty of development left to be done for us to be as good a team as we can be - Having said all of that, the highest-paid coach in the League complaining about the depth available to him on this roster is a load of bullshit, regardless of who it's directed at.

 

[egd27]

This is awefully specific. Calling out your players is also questioning your roster composition. Both coaches indicated some players on the roster were a problem.

I think Babcock said it on a Monday, so anything you find must also have been said on a Monday (or Tuesday if before noon)

 

[egd27]

Share some examples please.

 

[MarnerElite]

Babcock reportedly was pushing for the Leafs would have taken Hanifin in the 2015 draft over Marner.

Folks should let that sink in before they start to advocate allowing Babs to make GM level decisions for this roster

I don't have to advocate for shit. I know that all coaches have some input into the type of players they want to coach. This isn't some surprise or anything. Muzzin is pretty much all Babcock..He told Dubas to get him that kind of player and Dubas did. Now i haven't decided whether i like him or not(Muzzin) but he has done ok so far...Does some things quite well(along the wall, hits, doesn't get nervous very often) and other things not so much(poor skating might be his biggest weakness, sometimes out of position but that might be due to the fact we play much faster than LA).

 

[Peiskos]

Babcock needs to go, this will become even more apparent when we get bounced in the 1st round for the 3rd straight season this April...but he won’t be and we’ll go round and round getting bounced in round 1, it’ll be a new form of misery Leafs fans will have to put up with, first it was years and years of no playoffs and now it will progress to years and years of 1st round exits.

Babcock is stale, he still coaches like it’s 2009.

 

[MyBudJT]

That doesn't sound to me like a guy who's got a lot of faith in his depth guys simply getting better. That sounds more to me like a guy who doesn't think his team's system/program is where it should/needs to be.

I've made it no secret that I've liked Babcock so far in his tenure here, nor have I made it a secret that I believe there's still plenty of development left to be done for us to be as good a team as we can be - Having said all of that, the highest-paid coach in the League complaining about the depth available to him on this roster is a load of bull****, regardless of who it's directed at.

I think you're looking into this too much. I think we all say things that can be misinterpreted and not represent our actual thoughts and beliefs. I don't see Babcock complaining, but moreso just speaking his thoughts.

If you actually watch the interview and not read the quote, what he said was a lot more innocent than what is being made of it. There was no malice, he wasn't putting blame on anyone ... he waswtalking more about 'in an ideal world' kind of way.

I'm starting to wonder if people watched the whole interview or not, and understand the quote in it's context.



I encourage people to watch the I interview in full.... Not sure if you can then say with a straight face that Babcock was taking shots at the GM...

 

[ACC1224]

As was I. Not many on here wanted him. It was Hanifin or Strome for most. Some wanted anther D man. Most wanted a center.

Yeah I recall putting out the thought that he could be more impactful than Eichel.
Many minds were lost on that one,

 

[IBeL34f]

I think you're looking into this too much. I think we all say things that can be misinterpreted and not represent our actual thoughts and beliefs. I don't see Babcock complaining, but moreso just speaking his thoughts.

If you actually watch the interview and not read the quote, what he said was a lot more innocent than what is being made of it. There was no malice, he wasn't putting blame on anyone ... he waswtalking more about 'in an ideal world' kind of way.

I'm starting to wonder if people watched the whole interview or not, and understand the quote in it's context.



I encourage people to watch the I interview in full.... Not sure if you can then say with a straight face that Babcock was taking shots at the GM...

I hadn't seen the full interview, no. Having watched it now, it doesn't really seem like anything was taken out of context in the tweets, though none of the tweets mentioned his line about having good players, which is certainly nice to hear.
He's still saying that what he has available to him right now isn't where it should be, which I'm not a fan of, but he also isn't freaking out about the state of things the way some folks around here have been during this stretch.

Again, I like Babs, and I think he's a real smart guy - Our program, and our ability to bring in cheap NHL depth, however, has been pretty solid (at least in my opinion) and I don't think it's right to call that out in this situation in any capacity, whether he's taking shots at anyone or not. We've got really good players, and he's a really good coach - Let's focus on making the 23 guys we have better, not wishing we had better players. It seemed like he started doing more of that towards the end of the scrum, so I appreciate you posting the video.

 

[Joey Hoser]

As was I. Not many on here wanted him. It was Hanifin or Strome for most. Some wanted anther D man. Most wanted a center.

IIRC, I didn't have a personal preference between the 3. If you held a gun to my head, I would have said Strome > Hanafin > Marner though

 

[ACC1224]

That doesn't sound to me like a guy who's got a lot of faith in his depth guys simply getting better. That sounds more to me like a guy who doesn't think his team's system/program is where it should/needs to be.

I've made it no secret that I've liked Babcock so far in his tenure here, nor have I made it a secret that I believe there's still plenty of development left to be done for us to be as good a team as we can be - Having said all of that, the highest-paid coach in the League complaining about the depth available to him on this roster is a load of bull****, regardless of who it's directed at.

Yeah, the re-build isn't there yet. Lack of quality depth is now the 'pain'.

 

[IBeL34f]

Yeah, the re-build isn't there yet. Lack of quality depth is now the 'pain'.

The pain for me is the lack of effort throughout a 20-man roster night-in/night-out.

It's something that I believe will get better with experience, so I'm not worrying about it too much (yet) - But it's a little painful to know how much better we could be if we brought our best effort more consistently.