Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Igor Shvyrev

[Patagonia]

A very nice addition, his career stalled after being promoted to the KHL with limited minutes. Sakic giving him 3 years was a surprise. This allows him security and time to settle in the AHL. I suspect a year in the AHL and likely at some point reaches the AVs.

 

[henchman21]

Oh, I like his defensive game, kid's smart & his nasty hands work on both ends of the ice; I just would rather let him focus on what he can do with the puck than burden him with excess responsibility against it. We have enough other players that are good against the puck but can't do what he can with it, ya know?

I agree he needs to be the guy on his line who dominates the puck, but I guess I just don't understand the nuances of hockey tactics enough to see why Shvyryov couldn't do that while having the lighter defensive responsibilities of a wing...a la Duchene when he played with ROR, or MacKinnon a good chunk of the time this year. Now I realize both of those avs that filled the kind of role I'm describing where centers, either completely or nominally, but they're recent avs examples of players having that split between winger-duties defensively & center-duties offensively; around the league we've got similar dynamics at play with guys officially labelled wingers with the likes of Hall, Gaudreau, Kucherov out there weaving magic for their linemates.

As for Mikko, he dominated the puck for his line in NA with the Rampage & had the puck on his stick a lot as a rookie...things changed after MacK went super-saiyan, but before that we were all excited for having Mikko pulling the strings for his line the way Voracek does when not playing with Giroux.

I guess I'm not really opposed to letting Shvyry stay at center in the AHL, especially if it helps ease the transition for him; but I still think that he's a safer bet to become a difference maker in the NHL as a puck-dominant winger than a true center

I think his 2 way game is a big part of his upside, and there is no harm in developing that. He is more useful as a 2 way 60 point center than he would be as a 65 point wing.

With how structured the NHL is, there is no more of the give it to the best player on the ice and let them do their thing. The exceptions to that are all elite, or near elite players. Panarin is one of those. If a winger isn't elite... the center is going to consistently have the puck on his stick more. I'm as big of fan of the kid as anybody (I pumped his tires immediately on here), but it is an enormous expectation for him to become that level of player to be able to demand the puck as a wing. It just rarely happens. So, taking the rare cases out and in the NHL, IMO it is much better to have your puck needy players at center vs wing. The defensive role can be changed and swapped with wings and centers (we have seen it here, but it proliferates the NHL now), but that doesn't change the attacking structure and how the game is played at the NHL level.

 

[cgf]

Unexpected and exciting. I really hope that he's willing to stick it out in the AHL until he's ready for the big leagues and that he doesn't get pissy like Mironov did.

I guess it comes down to whether or not a 70 y/o male masseuse is a deal breaker.

Shvyry did say in his eurolanche interview that he'd be happy to go to the CHL if asked. So I'd imagine that he'd also be cool with playing in the AHL, just down the road from the senior team. Now maybe he'd be cool with how he imagines life in the AHL/CHL, but the reality will cause him to change his mind.

But I'm not too worried about that with Shvyryov because Magnitogorsk is not Moscow...it's a highly industrialized mountain town that's very isolated, not the megacity which has been one of the main capitals of the empire since the dutchy of Moscovi rose to prominence under the Golden Horde's domination of the land of the Rus...and an MHL-superstar who can't get a regular shift in the KHL is not a KHL-allstar from one of the traditional Moscow-powers (aka one of the teams my dad remembers being good), making KHL-allstar money. So Shvyry's used to a very different lifestyle than Mironov, and very different treatment from his team than Mironov. Hell compared Shvyry, Miro was an absolute Hockey Russia darling; so even at the youth international level, Shvyry is much more accustomed to getting mistreated than Miro was when we asked him to "suffer through life in the AHL".

That said, I do really hope that the Mironov-experience taught the club to be a lot more direct with Russians; as russians (especially ones who haven't been to NA before) are much more likely to feel maliciously-lied to if you just placate them with words of encouragement that don't actually mean anything. The culture is just a lot rougher & more direct.


Plus I can't help but I wonder if that American corporate-doublespeak...that Mironov seemed so upset by but people who came to the US as children (like myself) have grown accustomed to...isn't a little triggering for Russians who've grown up in Russia. Both due to the inherited psychological scars of life in the USSR, that we all got from our parents/aunts-n-uncles/grandparents regardless of when we came to America, and newer psychological scars caused by life in Putin's Russia. Where honesty & directness take on a more cherished & intimate role, as things you only get from your friends & family; in contrast to the world-out-there, that's constantly lying at you. So getting that BS-doublespeak from someone that you viewed as family, or as potential-family, hits Russian-raised-Russians as a heavy betrayal.

***Note to self; I need to remember to ask my older sister about this because most of her childhood was spent under communism & she's a shrink.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Awesome, really want him to have good ahl experience. Minimum 2 years there.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I am encouraged by the fact that the mironov screwup did not hurt our ability to sign khl players.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Dope

 

[McMetal]

I think the fact that he was willing to sign when Sakic almost certainly told him the expectation was AHL time to start says that he'll be fine in the AHL. Russians who come over early are much less of a flight risk. It's the ones who come over late who seem to be a little Goldilocks about the conditions under which they play.

I think Mironov was told, perhaps even in full honesty, that he was going to play in the NHL. Most of us here expected it, and Sakic probably did too. It didn't work out that way, and Miro felt betrayed. As long as the Avs didn't do something stupid like promise him NHL time when it's clear to everybody that isn't in the cards, I think he's going to feel like he's being treated fairly.

 

[Barklez]

Awesome, really want him to have good ahl experience. Minimum 2 years there.

Maybe we wait a couple (six) months before jumping to conclusions?

 

[PAZ]

A very nice addition, his career stalled after being promoted to the KHL with limited minutes. Sakic giving him 3 years was a surprise. This allows him security and time to settle in the AHL. I suspect a year in the AHL and likely at some point reaches the AVs.

All ELCs are three years, with the exception of older players.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I think the fact that he was willing to sign when Sakic almost certainly told him the expectation was AHL time to start says that he'll be fine in the AHL. Russians who come over early are much less of a flight risk. It's the ones who come over late who seem to be a little Goldilocks about the conditions under which they play.

I think Mironov was told, perhaps even in full honesty, that he was going to play in the NHL. Most of us here expected it, and Sakic probably did too. It didn't work out that way, and Miro felt betrayed. As long as the Avs didn't do something stupid like promise him NHL time when it's clear to everybody that isn't in the cards, I think he's going to feel like he's being treated fairly.

Looks like from the interview we still have his miro’s rights?

 

[McMetal]

Looks like from the interview we still have his miro’s rights?

Effectively, yes. Not sure how long, but he is going to wait until those expire before he ever attempts an NHL comeback. And after the way he played/left, I doubt an NHL comeback is ever going to materialize.

 

[cgf]

I think the fact that he was willing to sign when Sakic almost certainly told him the expectation was AHL time to start says that he'll be fine in the AHL. Russians who come over early are much less of a flight risk. It's the ones who come over late who seem to be a little Goldilocks about the conditions under which they play.

I think Mironov was told, perhaps even in full honesty, that he was going to play in the NHL. Most of us here expected it, and Sakic probably did too. It didn't work out that way, and Miro felt betrayed. As long as the Avs didn't do something stupid like promise him NHL time when it's clear to everybody that isn't in the cards, I think he's going to feel like he's being treated fairly.

I think that was ultimately why they had problems, but them trying to be encouraging with Miro instead of sitting him down to tell him that he was playing like crap, but that since the team still believed in his talented wanted him to work on getting used to the smaller ice & language in the A before taking another run at the NHL exacerbated the problem a lot more than if he didn't continually here about what a good job he was doing and how pleased the team was with the work he was putting in in SA.

 

[henchman21]

I really doubt it was all sunshine and kittens from the Avs... that isn’t how teams operate. Mironov wanted to be given a spot and didn’t want to have to earn it in the AHL. He was probably promised a NHL spot when he signed and felt scorned when they kept sending him down. Both parties had expectations of the others that couldn’t be met by that party. Mironov sucked and the Avs could justify keeping him up. Better that both move on.

 

[cgf]

I really doubt it was all sunshine and kittens from the Avs... that isn’t how teams operate. Mironov wanted to be given a spot and didn’t want to have to earn it in the AHL. He was probably promised a NHL spot when he signed and felt scorned when they kept sending him down. Both parties had expectations of the others that couldn’t be met by that party. Mironov sucked and the Avs could justify keeping him up. Better that both move on.

I'm not saying it was all sunshine & rainbows, but a lot of things can be taken differently than intended due to cultural difference. I mean, "not bad" is the highest praise you can hear from a russian parent about anything, while in this country that's more of a backhanded compliment

 

[The Kingslayer]

This signing doesnt mean anything until Joe hires several 22 yr old masseuses to take care of our Russians.

 

[henchman21]

I'm not saying it was all sunshine & rainbows, but a lot of things can be taken differently than intended due to cultural difference. I mean, "not bad" is the highest praise you can hear from a russian parent about anything, while in this country that's more of a backhanded compliment

I can be understand that things can be taken differently, but Mironov is a scorned lover right now. His words should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[MarkT]

I remember reading a Eurolanche interview with Rendulic after he left the team and he didn't have nice things to say about the organization just like Mironov. Does this happen this every other team too or this something we should be worried about with this organization? - that they sometimes treat players poorly in their organization when they don't see that player as a part of their long-term future (or maybe just European players...)

 

[UncleRisto]

I remember reading a Eurolanche interview with Rendulic after he left the team and he didn't have nice things to say about the organization just like Mironov. Does this happen this every other team too or this something we should be worried about with this organization? - that they sometimes treat players poorly in their organization when they don't see that player as a part of their long-term future (or maybe just European players...)

Rendulic wasn't and isn't an NHL player. He was all shot and nothing else, like a Stefan Elliott of forwards who don't utilize their size. No one should give a shit about him and what he thought on the way out.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

We got ourselves a future Dennis Parshin or whatever the name was?

 

[The Kingslayer]

I remember reading a Eurolanche interview with Rendulic after he left the team and he didn't have nice things to say about the organization just like Mironov. Does this happen this every other team too or this something we should be worried about with this organization? - that they sometimes treat players poorly in their organization when they don't see that player as a part of their long-term future (or maybe just European players...)

A lot of these guys who don't make it shit talk on their way out. Rendulic, Holos, Miro. If any of them were good enough they would be playing in the NHL somewhere. If Tanner Glass has a career in the NHL and can find work then anything is possible.

 

[cgf]

I can be understand that things can be taken differently, but Mironov is a scorned lover right now. His words should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also true.

I remember reading a Eurolanche interview with Rendulic after he left the team and he didn't have nice things to say about the organization just like Mironov. Does this happen this every other team too or this something we should be worried about with this organization? - that they sometimes treat players poorly in their organization when they don't see that player as a part of their long-term future (or maybe just European players...)

It's more the former, especially with guys who were playing pro somewhere else and so were used to better treatment than the AHL or at least better travel (as non-KHL european teams basically never have to travel further than one mid-sized american state away). There's often a lot of frustration being vented; which certain KHL-friendly media sources jump on as part of there "see, it sucks over there to" campaign; which in turn makes it more acceptable for guys who didn't make it to vent their frustrations to the press even when not talking to those KHL-friendly sources.

But how the Avs treat players/prospects that they've given up on is a question/concern that some of us have...even if it isn't entirely unique to the Avs...which is why you'll see some of us talking about this organization's "prospect ADHD" and names like Kyle Wood will get brought up.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Mironov situation is definitely one to keep an eye on with these European players coming over. He isn't the only one that seems to have been under an impression that they'd get more of an NHL chance, and then walked away disgruntled. Everberg and Redulic left under similar circumstances.

The Avs definitely don't owe it to anyone to play them in the NHL if they don't think they can. There seems to be more to it than that though. That alone wouldn't lead these guys to leaving upset the way they did. There seems to have been at best, a miscommunication when they signed.

 

[cgf]

You have to keep in mind that Miro & Rendo both thought they played well enough in the NHL to keep those jobs, when they clearly did not. So it's not just miscommunication.

 

[Foppa2118]

You have to keep in mind that Miro & Rendo both thought they played well enough in the NHL to keep those jobs, when they clearly did not. So it's not just miscommunication.

I also don't think that alone would cause them to leave so vocally disgruntled. Players fail to make the NHL all the time and don't leave that way. We heard word that Everberg wasn't too happy with the Avs either. Seems like an awfully big coincidence that all three were so upset, and that it was only because they thought they could play in the NHL. There's more to it than them thinking they were NHLers, and weren't given a shot. There's a Rashomon type of situation going on here, regarding what they thought they had to do to stay in the NHL.

 

[Bender]

Should we just call this thread "cgf's baby" or should we save that for the thread dedicated to french-Nic's NHL debut?

I heard CGF is Shvyrov's biological father.

Ok, maybe I didn't "hear it" as much as "I made it up" but the point still stands.