Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Igor Shvyrev

[UncleRisto]

I heard CGF is Shvyrov's biological father.

Ok, maybe I didn't "hear it" as much as "I made it up" but the point still stands.

We must have the same source for breaking reports.

 

[cgf]

I heard CGF is Shvyrov's biological father.

Ok, maybe I didn't "hear it" as much as "I made it up" but the point still stands.

Junior is loosely based on my life...

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Someone said that Shvy is outscoring Panarin at the same point in his career.

 

[cgf]

Someone said that Shvy is outscoring Panarin at the same point in his career.

He was when we drafted him, though I dunno if that's still the case atm. Panarin was a bit of late bloomer who did well in the MHL, but I don't think he ever even came close to the 70-in-40 that Shvyry had the year we drafted him...and IIRC Panarin also made the jump from the MHL quicker than Shvyryov has...as did the other great russian forwards that have hit the league lately, like Tarasenko, Kucherov & Buchnevich; who were all only part-time MHLers at most by their 19yo season; so it's tough to compare those insane numbers Igor put up in the MHL in his 19yo season.

 

[Byzantium]

U19 Production in the MHL

Player	GP	G	A	P	P/G	PIM
Igor Shvyrev	40	21	49	70	1.75	26
Nikita Kucherov	23	24	19	43	1.87	40
Pavel Buchnevich	24	8	15	23	0.96	55
Artemi Panarin	38	20	24	44	1.16	55

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

How does Igor Shvyrev’s junior career compare to other Russian NHLers

 

[CalderKing21]

Business is about to pick up.
I am extremely intrigued by his signing and I like his potential.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

In the case of Everberg and Rendulic there was more to it than just being sent down. They were mostly complaining about not being looked after by the coaching staff at the AHL level. They were left on their own to develop. The coaches were only looking after the guys that the Avs had in their plan. I don't have a link anymore but I remember something specific about this.

 

[McMetal]

In the case of Everberg and Rendulic there was more to it than just being sent down. They were mostly complaining about not being looked after by the coaching staff at the AHL level. They were left on their own to develop. The coaches were only looking after the guys that the Avs had in their plan. I don't have a link anymore but I remember something specific about this.

That lines up well with my recollection, too. They really did not have good things to say about the AHL coaching staff (I forget if it was EV yet at that point) and the Avs development staff didn't escape criticism either. The "dumping ground" idea really took off after that, that they just left players to rot down there until they could get rid of them somehow.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

That lines up well with my recollection, too. They really did not have good things to say about the AHL coaching staff (I forget if it was EV yet at that point) and the Avs development staff didn't escape criticism either. The "dumping ground" idea really took off after that, that they just left players to rot down there until they could get rid of them somehow.

Not EV. It was the year before I think. I can't spell his name. Haha

 

[McMetal]

Not EV. It was the year before I think. I can't spell his name. Haha

Neither can I. I just remember how much everyone hated him.

 

[Pokecheque]

Dean Chynoweth

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Here we go...Dean Chynoweth

 

[DanishAvsfan]

Neither can I. I just remember how much everyone hated him.

Chynoweth was his name.

Here are Rendulic’ comments. I think it is a very interesting interview. Great job by David from Eurolanche. Thanks to him we have a player’s view about some of the organisation’s issues with developing players. I don’t think Borna sounds bitter. I think he is quite honest about his own failings as well.

Trip to Croatia to meet Borna Rendulic - Eurolanche.com

 

[Foppa2118]

I just skimmed over the last few posts here and thought we bought back Chynoweth to replace Veilleux. Had a mini panic attack there for a second.

 

[MarkT]

Rendulic wasn't and isn't an NHL player. He was all shot and nothing else, like a Stefan Elliott of forwards who don't utilize their size. No one should give a **** about him and what he thought on the way out.

Ah, I get it, so if a player is bad then his opinions and experiences don't matter, or we should assume he's a liar if he says anything negative about the team. Let me ask, if you personally thought Rendulic was a legit NHL top 6 talent who deserved to be on the team, would you then take his complaints more seriously?

A lot of these guys who don't make it **** talk on their way out. Rendulic, Holos, Miro. If any of them were good enough they would be playing in the NHL somewhere. If Tanner Glass has a career in the NHL and can find work then anything is possible.

The bolded part is 100% irrelevant to my point. I'm not arguing they are good players or deserve a spot in the NHL. My point is if we keep hearing the same thing from these guys about how they were treated by the Avs, then maybe the problem lies with the Avs, not just with them.

It's more the former, especially with guys who were playing pro somewhere else and so were used to better treatment than the AHL or at least better travel (as non-KHL european teams basically never have to travel further than one mid-sized american state away). There's often a lot of frustration being vented; which certain KHL-friendly media sources jump on as part of there "see, it sucks over there to" campaign; which in turn makes it more acceptable for guys who didn't make it to vent their frustrations to the press even when not talking to those KHL-friendly sources.

But how the Avs treat players/prospects that they've given up on is a question/concern that some of us have...even if it isn't entirely unique to the Avs...which is why you'll see some of us talking about this organization's "prospect ADHD" and names like Kyle Wood will get brought up.

I totally get that European professional players might have unrealistic expectations about what life is like in the NHL/AHL, but your second paragraph is what I'm talking about. Frankly, my wonder is why exactly is life in the AHL so much worse than life in European pro leagues? If I ran the Avalanche, I would make it a priority to have every team in the organization run in an extremely classy, professional manner. I'm not suggesting the players need to be pampered, but players coming from European pro leagues shouldn't be experiencing such a huge shock at the treatment they receive.

 

[cgf]

I totally get that European professional players might have unrealistic expectations about what life is like in the NHL/AHL, but your second paragraph is what I'm talking about. Frankly, my wonder is why exactly is life in the AHL so much worse than life in European pro leagues? If I ran the Avalanche, I would make it a priority to have every team in the organization run in an extremely classy, professional manner. I'm not suggesting the players need to be pampered, but players coming from European pro leagues shouldn't be experiencing such a huge shock at the treatment they receive.

That and manifest destiny.

 

[MarkT]

That and manifest destiny.

Yeah I get that the AHL produces less profit, but if the team is connected to an NHL franchise, it makes logical sense to treat those players well because if they like playing for the franchise as a whole they'll be more willing to stay and develop, and maybe make it to the NHL team at some point. I have to believe that there are at least some franchises that treat them AHL players with a greater degree of class and respect than we seem to show ours.

 

[UncleRisto]

Let me ask, if you personally thought Rendulic was a legit NHL top 6 talent who deserved to be on the team, would you then take his complaints more seriously?

I will say I had forgotten about the whole Chynoweth stuff, so that's one thing. But yes, if he would've had a case for actually being in the NHL, what reason would he have had to gripe about his treatment on the way out the door?

Frankly, my wonder is why exactly is life in the AHL so much worse than life in European pro leagues?

Probably differences in accommodation, often a huge difference in money, definite differences in travel... Also, if you're European, it'll generally be easier for you to live within the European Union. Not to mention certain European countries and cities will have advantages over AHL cities on a societal level. As a European, you'll also be much closer to home, if not actually at home. You may be able to use your own language. The level of competition is also arguably better in many European pro leagues, especially if you're an AHL/ECHL tweener in NA.

How much value would you put on your treatment if it cost you $180k a year in any case?

 

[MarkT]

I will say I had forgotten about the whole Chynoweth stuff, so that's one thing. But yes, if he would've had a case for actually being in the NHL, what reason would he have had to gripe about his treatment on the way out the door?

What if he were actually mistreated? I don't think his talent level or odds of making it in the NHL should have any impact over his treatment. If the Avs treat players poorly because they don't think they'll make it in the NHL, then it honestly makes me lose some respect for the franchise - I'd want my favourite team to show respect and consideration for all the players they have under contract regardless of their talent level.

Probably differences in accommodation, often a huge difference in money, definite differences in travel... Also, if you're European, it'll generally be easier for you to live within the European Union. Not to mention certain European countries and cities will have advantages over AHL cities on a societal level. As a European, you'll also be much closer to home, if not actually at home. You may be able to use your own language. The level of competition is also arguably better in many European pro leagues, especially if you're an AHL/ECHL tweener in NA.

How much value would you put on your treatment if it cost you $180k a year in any case?

I'm not really interested in most of those issues. I'm interested in the things that are completely within a franchise's ability to provide. Things like training and development, good communication, injury treatment, and yes, accommodation, food, travel arrangements, and the like.

For example, would it not make sense for the Avs to rent out some apartments in Denver and (previously) San Antonio for the use of those players who are on short term deals and thus don't want to buy or commit to renting property? The Avs could even pay for maid services or food for these players. That would remove a lot of the stress and worry from their lives, and if there are other players also staying there, create a sense of camaraderie. I don't like hearing that Mironov, for example, was living alone in a hotel and had no friends on the team. In my mind that alone could be a reason he didn't succeed here.

 

[UncleRisto]

What if he were actually mistreated? I don't think his talent level or odds of making it in the NHL should have any impact over his treatment. If the Avs treat players poorly because they don't think they'll make it in the NHL, then it honestly makes me lose some respect for the franchise - I'd want my favourite team to show respect and consideration for all the players they have under contract regardless of their talent level.

Yes, that's true but that's not my argument. If there's something actually there that I don't know about, then I stand corrected.

I'm not really interested in most of those issues. I'm interested in the things that are completely within a franchise's ability to provide. Things like training and development, good communication, injury treatment, and yes, accommodation, food, travel arrangements, and the like.

For example, would it not make sense for the Avs to rent out some apartments in Denver and (previously) San Antonio for the use of those players who are on short term deals and thus don't want to buy or commit to renting property? The Avs could even pay for maid services or food for these players. That would remove a lot of the stress and worry from their lives, and if there are other players also staying there, create a sense of camaraderie. I don't like hearing that Mironov, for example, was living alone in a hotel and had no friends on the team. In my mind that alone could be a reason he didn't succeed here.

You may not be, but that doesn't mean the Croatian isn't.

I'll reiterate. If you as an American were offered a job from Canada that paid $100 000 more annually, would you stay in India instead because they have a free gym?

 

[Ivan13]

What if he were actually mistreated? I don't think his talent level or odds of making it in the NHL should have any impact over his treatment. If the Avs treat players poorly because they don't think they'll make it in the NHL, then it honestly makes me lose some respect for the franchise - I'd want my favourite team to show respect and consideration for all the players they have under contract regardless of their talent level.



I'm not really interested in most of those issues. I'm interested in the things that are completely within a franchise's ability to provide. Things like training and development, good communication, injury treatment, and yes, accommodation, food, travel arrangements, and the like.

For example, would it not make sense for the Avs to rent out some apartments in Denver and (previously) San Antonio for the use of those players who are on short term deals and thus don't want to buy or commit to renting property? The Avs could even pay for maid services or food for these players. That would remove a lot of the stress and worry from their lives, and if there are other players also staying there, create a sense of camaraderie. I don't like hearing that Mironov, for example, was living alone in a hotel and had no friends on the team. In my mind that alone could be a reason he didn't succeed here.

Well believe it or not the quality of life means something to most people. Why the hell would someone ride the bus in the AHL, spend a lot of time on the road, got paid less, live in cities that can't compare in any way, shape or form to the likes of say Zurich, Bern, Berlin, Stockholm etc if he can get a better paycheck and have a better life outside of hockey?

 

[Tommy Shelby]

As someone who has spent significant time in Europe, there are very, very few cities in NA that are remotely as nice as the ones in Europe. No rich history, no breathtaking architecture, and the lifestyle in most European countries is more laid back and in my opinion they have a much better overall quality of life and sense of community.

I can see why people don't want to ride busses through the recently impoverished and dying rust belt or through the vast emptiness of the Midwest and Pacific Division. For the record I love vast openness devoid of human life but for people who are used to walking round the corner to the shops then I totally understand why it would be unappealing.

 

[lonelybadger]

So does he step into the AVS right away or need some AHL seasoning?

 

[henchman21]

Playing in Europe >>> Playing in the AHL. The advantage to the AHL is that you hope to earn your way into the NHL and during the season, it is basically the only path for that. Beyond that... it just doesn't make sense to stick in the AHL for years and years, especially if you are not American or Canadian. I mean we are comparing places like Grand Rapids, Bakersfield, Loveland, Rochester, etc to the likes of the best cities in Europe while getting paid a chunk more. Now we are see some parity in pay starting to creep up for the AHL with a number of players getting 4-500k on their AHL deals or 1 way NHL deals in the 700k range... but still. Work in Cleveland or live in Bern or Stockholm... I'd take a couple hundred thousand less and live in Bern vs living in Cleveland.

 

[MarkT]

Yes, that's true but that's not my argument. If there's something actually there that I don't know about, then I stand corrected.

You realize you've been responding to my argument, right? It sounds like you agree with my point but still want to argue as if I am claiming something I'm not.

You may not be, but that doesn't mean the Croatian isn't.

I don't care about the things the Avs have no control over. I am concerned that the Avs are treating certain players in the organization poorly and/or not treating them as I (and they) think they should be treated.

I'll reiterate. If you as an American were offered a job from Canada that paid $100 000 more annually, would you stay in India instead because they have a free gym?

This question is completely irrelevant to my argument. I honestly don't even know what you think my argument is if you think that question is relevant.

Well believe it or not the quality of life means something to most people. Why the hell would someone ride the bus in the AHL, spend a lot of time on the road, got paid less, live in cities that can't compare in any way, shape or form to the likes of say Zurich, Bern, Berlin, Stockholm etc if he can get a better paycheck and have a better life outside of hockey?

Yes, I'm aware of that. It's not relevant to my argument at all though. My point is I'm worried that in the category of things that the Avs have control over, they're not doing a good enough job.

___________________________________

Frankly I'm flabbergasted at all this. I make a point that maybe the Avs aren't treating some of their European marginal talent well enough and everyone is acting like I claimed playing in the AHL is better than playing in Europe.