Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Artem Anisimov to PTO

[henchman21]

My other issue with Kadri is he needs to use his linemates much better this season. IMO he was worst last season than usual with regard to having tunnel vision. It would open up a lot more ice for him if he would distribute the puck more instead of taking bad shots or toe dragging.

Kadri has never used his teammates and at his age, that won't really change. He is who he is.

 

[flyfysher]

To be fair though, it really only has been a few times.

I wouldn't rule it out for the rest of his career, but if we had to pick the least likely year he makes a bonehead hit to get suspended, I think it would be the season after he made a bonehead hit where he wants to prove he can be relied up, that also happens be his last chance to cash in on a big long term deal in a contract year.

Uh, once is way too much.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Kadri has never used his teammates and at his age, that won't really change. He is who he is.

Still blows my mind that no coach has ever put more than like two weeks effort into converting Naz to wing.

 

[henchman21]

Still blows my mind that no coach has ever put more than like two weeks effort into converting Naz to wing.

He's got the Duchene syndrome where he thinks he's a center and doesn't like moving to wing. That said, I'm not sure his game would play well there though, he'd touch the puck less and Kadri is really most useful with the puck on his stick.

 

[shadow1]

If center depth is so key, why couldn't the Avs get anywhere with Duchene, ROR, Stastny, and MacKinnon that year? They couldn't even beat the Wild that year. And even the year after, Stastny was essentially replaced by MacKinnon, and we didn't even make the playoffs.

At the time, we all said it was because our defense sucked. I don't think we were wrong about that, the defense DID suck, and it held us back a ton. As Seph was saying, we basically traded our center depth for defensive depth, and we're a much better team for it.

I definitely buy that center depth is important, but it's not everything, because if it was the Avs would have been contenders in 2014 and 2015.

That series specifically was lost by shaky goaltending and an already rough defense that was missing Tyson Barrie for four games. Matt Duchene also missed five games, and it shouldn't be forgotten that Roy was arguably one of the worst coaches in the NHL at that time.

The reason things totally fell apart in 2015 (missed playoffs) was because of a brutal off-season by Roy and Sakic. PA Parenteau and Paul Stastny out; Daniel Briere, Jarome Iginla, Brad Stuart in. Then, Jamie McGinn missed nearly the entire season. Add it all up and you get this line-up on a nightly basis:

Tanguay* - Duchene - Iginla
Landeskog - O'Reilly - MacKinnon
Talbot* - Mitchell - Everberg
McLeod - Cliche - Briere
*These two frequently flipped due to terrible depth

Stuart - Johnson(missed 35 games)
Hejda - Barrie
Holden - Guenin

Varlamov/Pickard/Berra

Follow that up with what has proven to be a debacle of a trade: Ryan O'Reilly and McGinn for JT Compher, Mikhail Grigorenko, Nikita Zadorov, and a 2nd (AJ Greer) + sign/trade for pending UFA Carl Soderberg.

In the post-mortem, it's pretty easy to see how a team with great center depth went from 112pts -> 90 pts -> 82 pts -> 48 pts. Several missteps were made, and I didn't even mention yet about the prospect pool being bone dry at that time (three first round misses in Hishon, Siemens, and Bleackley).

Long story short, we can't say good center depth isn't the key to winning based on a few disastrous years by the Avalanche organization. I'm obviously happy how things have worked out long term, but Colorado definitely got burned in the O'Reilly trade, and there was certainly a good amount of luck involved in the Duchene trade (Girard being as good as he is and Ottawa's 1st being as high as it was).

 

[Foppberg]

I miss Dennis Everberg.

 

[Avsboy]

I miss Dennis Everberg.

Everbeast

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Kadri has never used his teammates and at his age, that won't really change. He is who he is.

Although I agree with you that he is what he is and he won't become a playmaker the last 2/3 of last season was even worst than his usual self. All I'm asking is that he goes back to the level he was 2 season ago.

 

[AvsGuy]

I don't think the O'Reilly trade was a debacle at all

We got fair value for him, just most of the pieces didn't work out

Buffalo didn't even get close to fair value for him

 

[flyfysher]

I don't think the O'Reilly trade was a debacle at all

We got fair value for him, just most of the pieces didn't work out

Buffalo didn't even get close to fair value for him

I dislike ROR and would still trade him. But there's no denying he's a great player even if he's a jerk. Still don't want him back either.

 

[Foppberg]

I love ROR and wish we never traded him.

Him + MacK would be the best 1-2 tandem in the league.

 

[bohlmeister]

Hes a stupid hockey player you cant put these sort of expectations on him. Just dont let him handle the puck much, get open, shoot and get the f*** out everyone else way.

He is. And teams with players that need to "stay out of the way" aren't winning anything. Especially when it is your #2 center. It is hard to imagine what the scouting staff, coaching staff, and management sees in Kadri. But they are pissing away competition years here. He is such a selfish player on the ice. I can't believe Joe hasn't moved him yet.

 

[Foppberg]

He is. And teams with players that need to "stay out of the way" aren't winning anything. Especially when it is your #2 center. It is hard to imagine what the scouting staff, coaching staff, and management sees in Kadri. But they are pissing away competition years here. He is such a selfish player on the ice. I can't believe Joe hasn't moved him yet.

Yeah? And replace him with? By using what assets?

 

[Foppa2118]

I love ROR and wish we never traded him.

Him + MacK would be the best 1-2 tandem in the league.

The perfect tandem stylistically too.

You have the highly skilled explosive skating superstar 1C, with the hard working two way work house at 2C, who has also built himself up a lot physically since his draft year, and is now kind of that big center that I personally love to have playing behind the high skill 1C.

Also why I was hoping they'd bring in Horvat instead of Kadri, no offense to Naz. I just think having that bigger 2C when you have a high skill 1C helps you to have success a lot more, because the high skill 1C can rip through teams that don't know how to contain them.

But when a team finally comes around and contains them, which usually means playing them hard and physically, and taking away all the space on the ice, that big 2C can still thrive in those games because of their physical advantage.

It's too bad that Mikko will likely stay at wing, even though it's understandable with his outstanding chemistry with Nate, but he really would be the perfect big 2C himself, kinda in the mold of Eichel.

 

[shadow1]

I don't think the O'Reilly trade was a debacle at all

We got fair value for him, just most of the pieces didn't work out

Buffalo didn't even get close to fair value for him

Yeah I don’t think the trade value was necessarily bad at the time. But unfortunately not enough players developed for Colorado so when the dust settled the Avs traded a home grown star player for a bucket of balls.

One funny note, just to steer this PTO thread off track even further…

Colorado received the 31st overall pick from Buffalo in the trade. They traded that pick to San Jose for the 39th overall pick and Colorado’s own second round pick in 2016 (recouped from the Brad Stuart trade).

Colorado took AJ Greer at 39, and took Cameron Morrison in 2016 (40OA). Pick #35 in 2015 was Sebastian Aho…

 

[tigervixxxen]

Who didn’t spend a single day in the AHL. There’s drafting a guy and then there’s knowing what to do with him.

 

[Bonzai12]

I don’t know if ROR would have taken a back seat to MacKinnon though and played C2 at that point in time. Who knows. But Mac going to C1 and and having Duchene and ROR both gone really gave Mac opportunity that he’s 100% seized on.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I love ROR and wish we never traded him.

Him + MacK would be the best 1-2 tandem in the league.

I think RL and myself were very vocal about this. Said it then and believe it now that ROR was the better hockey player than Duchene. I took heat for that comment at the time but I was dead serious. You win with guys like ROR. If ROR was a third overall pick he would have been here and Duchene would have been traded before him.

 

[Foppberg]

I think RL and myself were very vocal about this. Said it then and believe it now that ROR was the better hockey player than Duchene. I took heat for that comment at the time but I was dead serious. You win with guys like ROR. If ROR was a third overall pick he would have been here and Duchene would have been traded before him.

Same. I was always a much bigger fan of even Casper than Duchene. From the get go I just never liked his energy.

 

[shadow1]

We can't forget that Ryan O'Reilly wanted out. There were rumors for years about him being upset about Gabe Landeskog getting the "C", and at age 22 held out after his rookie deal ended and signed that big offer sheet with Calgary ($5x2).

The Avs did come to terms with him once (after 2014, $6x2), but it was being reported after the 2015 season that O'Reilly would only sign long term in Colorado if the AAV was $8.5M. The only players in the NHL making that much money back then were Crosby, Lundqvist, Malkin, Ovechkin, Perry, and Subban. In was an insane ask, especially considering O'Reilly didn't top 65 points (77) until the 2019 season.

As much as I wish he was on the team now, there's a reason he was called Ryan O'Moneybags for years.

 

[RockLobster]

I think RL and myself were very vocal about this. Said it then and believe it now that ROR was the better hockey player than Duchene. I took heat for that comment at the time but I was dead serious. You win with guys like ROR. If ROR was a third overall pick he would have been here and Duchene would have been traded before him.

One of the few, and you're right.

I said it then, I said it after, and I'll say it now--O'Reilly was the better player. He didn't have the FLASHINESS that Duchene possessed, but he was the better player. The contract thing...even among people who wanted to keep him, I was still sorta on an island by myself. I personally believe the background stuff I was told around all of that, and as such, I lay pretty much the entire blame at Eric Lacroix's feet. That guy f***ed that negotiation up so horribly, that not even Joe could really fix it when he and Roy (who I believe was a HUGE fan of O'Reilly's) came into power.

It really is unfortunate because a 1-2 punch of MacKinnon and O'Reilly would have straight up been dominant. Add in Landeskog and Rantanen to that mix, and legitimately...I think we would have won a Cup by now.

 

[Islay1989]

We can't forget that Ryan O'Reilly wanted out. There were rumors for years about him being upset about Gabe Landeskog getting the "C", and at age 22 held out after his rookie deal ended and signed that big offer sheet with Calgary ($5x2).

The Avs did come to terms with him once (after 2014, $6x2), but it was being reported after the 2015 season that O'Reilly would only sign long term in Colorado if the AAV was $8.5M. The only players in the NHL making that much money back then were Crosby, Lundqvist, Malkin, Ovechkin, Perry, and Subban. In was an insane ask, especially considering O'Reilly didn't top 65 points (77) until the 2019 season.

As much as I wish he was on the team now, there's a reason he was called Ryan O'Moneybags for years.

Post the full picture. He got on bad terms because EL lowballed him.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

I love ROR and wish we never traded him.

Him + MacK would be the best 1-2 tandem in the league.

But ROR wanted to be a #1C. He wanted out of Colorado because he wasn't and wanted out of Buffalo as well. There is nothing to indicate that he would have been happy as a 2C behind Mackinnon, no matter how good that 1-2 punch would have been.

 

[shadow1]

Post the full picture. He got on bad terms because EL lowballed him.

The full picture is that Colorado reportedly - per Adrian Dater - offered him two deals:

• 2 years, $3.5M AAV
• 5 years, $3.4M AAV

As far as comparables at that time, the two closest I can come up with from around that time are:

1. Logan Couture - 2 years, $2.875M AAV (signed the off-season prior)
2. Matt Duchene - 2 years, $3.5M AAV

Both Courture and Duchene were also 22 when they signed, so I wouldn't consider $3.5M a lowball and no one did at the time.

 

[PAZ]

One of the few, and you're right.

I said it then, I said it after, and I'll say it now--O'Reilly was the better player. He didn't have the FLASHINESS that Duchene possessed, but he was the better player. The contract thing...even among people who wanted to keep him, I was still sorta on an island by myself. I personally believe the background stuff I was told around all of that, and as such, I lay pretty much the entire blame at Eric Lacroix's feet. That guy f***ed that negotiation up so horribly, that not even Joe could really fix it when he and Roy (who I believe was a HUGE fan of O'Reilly's) came into power.

It really is unfortunate because a 1-2 punch of MacKinnon and O'Reilly would have straight up been dominant. Add in Landeskog and Rantanen to that mix, and legitimately...I think we would have won a Cup by now.

It's so hard to say in retrospect, because so much has changed every year. Sakic has got better every year. Either way, having O'Reilly would've made our window was sooner, and does 2016-19 Sakic have enough experience to put together a cup contending team? It would be a vastly different team. Most likely means no Makar, Girard, and Byram. Barrie would probably still be on the team making $7.5 mil+, maybe have Chabot+? (if i'm remembering the Duchene rumours correctly?).