Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Artem Anisimov to PTO

[Northern Avs Fan]

I know Kuemper is the better goalie, but if we could've used those assets to get a guy like Reinhart while keeping Grubs.. I'd be happier with our forward group. The top line is amazing but our depth is severely lacking.

There’s not even close to enough cap space to do this.

 

[Foppberg]

There’s not even close to enough cap space to do this.

I forgot to mention the part where I twist Landy's arm to sign a 8x1M contract.

 

[S E P H]

Avs had amazing centre depth at one point in time when we played against the Wild consisting of Duchene, Stastny, and O'Reilly with MacKinnon being on the wing for his first year. We had some unfortunate circumstances where all three left, asked for a trade, or was pretty much forced out and the pieces we got back has fixed the defence (which was pretty bad against the Wild). Avs pretty much sacrificed their centres for the defensive core we now have in one way or another.

 

[Pokecheque]

Avs were #1 in faceoffs in 16-17. We know how that season went.

Clearly, the causation = correlation argument is something the Avs decided they'd pin on faceoffs. Win faceoffs? Suck ass. Nobody is allowed to be good at it.

I'm only half-joking on that, but it is rather frustrating when the Avs waste time on a power play or give up the occasional goal off the draw simply because they didn't have anyone who could win a goddamned faceoff. I'm not asking for Paul Gaustad here, just someone who can win the puck back. Even Kadri seemed to take a big step back from that this last season.

 

[Foppa2118]

Avs had amazing centre depth at one point in time when we played against the Wild consisting of Duchene, Stastny, and O'Reilly with MacKinnon being on the wing for his first year. We had some unfortunate circumstances where all three left, asked for a trade, or was pretty much forced out and the pieces we got back has fixed the defence (which was pretty bad against the Wild). Avs pretty much sacrificed their centres for the defensive core we now have in one way or another.

Almost like defense is more important than center depth.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Almost like defense is more important than center depth.

I don't agree with this. Every team that's won the cup recently has been crazy strong down the middle except for Hawks, but Kane is special so they could get away without a true top 6 C. But even then their bottom 6 C's were unreal as well.

Mack is as good as any of these guys but the depth at C is severely lacking compared to these teams. Same with the Islanders, Canes, Lightning, and Panthers who will be who we have to beat if we're going to win a cup. The defense is as good as it gets but the C depth is this teams achilles heel at this point.

Lightning: Point, Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson
Caps: Backstrom, Kuzy, Eller,
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Bonino
Kings: Kopitar, Carter, Richards
Bruins: Bergeron, Krejci, Savard
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Talbot
Red Wings: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula,
Ducks: Getzlaf, MacDonald, Pahlsson
Canes: Staal, Brind'amour, Cullen, Weight
Lightning: Richards, Lecavalier

 

[Foppberg]

Lightning: Point, Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson
Caps: Backstrom, Kuzy, Eller,
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Bonino
Kings: Kopitar, Carter, Richards
Bruins: Bergeron, Krejci, Savard
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Talbot
Red Wings: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula,
Ducks: Getzlaf, MacDonald, Pahlsson
Canes: Staal, Brind'amour, Cullen, Weight
Lightning: Richards, Lecavalier

Jesus Christ. Also the Wings having prime Zetterberg + Datsyuk as their 1-2 combo? Ridiculous.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Jesus Christ. Also the Wings having prime Zetterberg + Datsyuk as their 1-2 combo? Ridiculous.

Yeah making that list was pretty telling. Kadri isn't really close to any 2C on that list while Mack is about average for what the 1C's have been for the most part. Than you get to Tyson Jost and he's just not even in the same league as any of those 3C's.

Also very underrated 1-2 punch is the Lecavalier/Richards combo. Their peaks weren't very long but holy moly were they good.

 

[Foppberg]

Yeah making that list was pretty telling. Kadri isn't really close to any 2C on that list while Mack is about average for what the 1C's have been for the most part. Than you get to Tyson Jost and he's just not even in the same league as any of those 3C's.

Also very underrated 1-2 punch is the Lecavalier/Richards combo. Their peaks weren't very long but holy moly were they good.

Also the Ducks with Getzlaf-McDonald-Pahlsson. Great 1-2 punch complemented by the runner up to the Selke in Pahlsson. Who actually got quite a few more 1st place votes than the winner (Brind'amour) that year.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I know Kuemper is the better goalie, but if we could've used those assets to get a guy like Reinhart while keeping Grubs.. I'd be happier with our forward group. The top line is amazing but our depth is severely lacking.

Glad we didn't keep Grubauer. This generations Nabokov. Cant get it done when it matters. Kuemper has a history of injuries that is concerning but hes the better goalie no doubt. I agree it sucks losing the assets we did to obtain Kuemper but it had to be done. The Avs needed a goalie asap so Joe was caught on the shitter after a breakfast burrito with the Yotes GM holding the only roll of toilet paper in the next stall.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Also the Ducks with Getzlaf-McDonald-Pahlsson. Great 1-2 punch complemented by the runner up to the Selke in Pahlsson.

This team could use a Pahlsson in the worst kind of way.

 

[Foppberg]

This team could use a Pahlsson in the worst kind of way.

AKA Radek Faksa lol

 

[McMetal]

I don't agree with this. Every team that's won the cup recently has been crazy strong down the middle except for Hawks, but Kane is special so they could get away without a true top 6 C. But even then their bottom 6 C's were unreal as well.

Mack is as good as any of these guys but the depth at C is severely lacking compared to these teams. Same with the Islanders, Canes, Lightning, and Panthers who will be who we have to beat if we're going to win a cup. The defense is as good as it gets but the C depth is this teams achilles heel at this point.

Lightning: Point, Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson
Caps: Backstrom, Kuzy, Eller,
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Bonino
Kings: Kopitar, Carter, Richards
Bruins: Bergeron, Krejci, Savard
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Talbot
Red Wings: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula,
Ducks: Getzlaf, MacDonald, Pahlsson
Canes: Staal, Brind'amour, Cullen, Weight
Lightning: Richards, Lecavalier

If center depth is so key, why couldn't the Avs get anywhere with Duchene, ROR, Stastny, and MacKinnon that year? They couldn't even beat the Wild that year. And even the year after, Stastny was essentially replaced by MacKinnon, and we didn't even make the playoffs.

At the time, we all said it was because our defense sucked. I don't think we were wrong about that, the defense DID suck, and it held us back a ton. As Seph was saying, we basically traded our center depth for defensive depth, and we're a much better team for it.

I definitely buy that center depth is important, but it's not everything, because if it was the Avs would have been contenders in 2014 and 2015.

 

[The Abusement Park]

If center depth is so key, why couldn't the Avs get anywhere with Duchene, ROR, Stastny, and MacKinnon that year? They couldn't even beat the Wild that year. And even the year after, Stastny was essentially replaced by MacKinnon, and we didn't even make the playoffs.

At the time, we all said it was because our defense sucked. I don't think we were wrong about that, the defense DID suck, and it held us back a ton. As Seph was saying, we basically traded our center depth for defensive depth, and we're a much better team for it.

I definitely buy that center depth is important, but it's not everything, because if it was the Avs would have been contenders in 2014 and 2015.

I mean you have to have both, but if I had to chose one over the other I'm going C depth personally as it's much more effective at masking team weaknesses. This teams defense is as talented as any out there but the biggest issue the team has currently is that they get outmatched at C every year.

 

[McMetal]

I mean you have to have both, but if I had to chose one over the other I'm going C depth personally as it's much more effective at masking team weaknesses. This teams defense is as talented as any out there but the biggest issue the team has currently is that they get outmatched at C every year.

In the cap era, it's next to impossible to have an elite defense and and elite center core. You have to choose. And while I'm not saying you're wrong to choose center depth, I think there's some recency bias creeping in there. Like I said, we DID have great center depth once upon a time, and the team still sucked. I'd rather have the prime D we have now, because you can't go anywhere at all if your defense is a shambles, no matter how good your centers are.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't agree with this. Every team that's won the cup recently has been crazy strong down the middle except for Hawks, but Kane is special so they could get away without a true top 6 C. But even then their bottom 6 C's were unreal as well.

Mack is as good as any of these guys but the depth at C is severely lacking compared to these teams. Same with the Islanders, Canes, Lightning, and Panthers who will be who we have to beat if we're going to win a cup. The defense is as good as it gets but the C depth is this teams achilles heel at this point.

Lightning: Point, Cirelli, Gourde, Johnson
Caps: Backstrom, Kuzy, Eller,
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Bonino
Kings: Kopitar, Carter, Richards
Bruins: Bergeron, Krejci, Savard
Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Talbot
Red Wings: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula,
Ducks: Getzlaf, MacDonald, Pahlsson
Canes: Staal, Brind'amour, Cullen, Weight
Lightning: Richards, Lecavalier

Well you left out some teams as well. Below is a list of all the Cup winners in the last 30 years.

Nearly all the teams have stacked defenses, while there are a few outliers like Carolina who was a fluke in general that year, or some of the Pens teams where they can get away with average defenses when they have arguably the two best players in the world in their prime with Crosby and Malkin.

Lightning - Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak
Lightning - Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Shattenkirk
Blues - Pietrangelo, Parayko, Bouwmeester, Edmundson, Dunn
Capitals - Carlson, Orlov, Orpik, Niskanen
Penguins - Letang, Hainsey, Schultz, Dailey, Cole, Dumoulin, Maata
Penguins - Letang, Dailey, Maata, Dumoulin, Lovejoy, Cole, Scuderi
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya
Kings - Dougthy, Voynov, Mitchell, Muzzin, Regehr, Greene, Martinez
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya, Leddy
Kings - Dougthy, Mitchell, Voynov, Scuderi, Johnson, Greene, Martinez
Bruins - Chara, Seidenberg, Kaberle, Boychuk, Ferrence
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Cambell, Byfuglien
Penguins - Gonchar, Letang, Whitney, Orpik, Scuderi, Goligoski, Boucher
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Chelios, Lebda
Ducks - Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, O'Donnell, Jackman
Carolina - Hedican, Kaberle, Ward, Commodore, Wallin
Lightning - Boyle, Sydor, Kubina, Cullimore, Lukowich, Sarich
Devils - Niedermayer, Rafalski, Stevens, Zyuzin, White, Daneyko
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Chelios, Fischer, Slegr, Krupp, Olausson
Avalanche - Bourque, Blake, Foote, Miller, De Vries, Skoula, Klemm, Gusarov
Devils - Niedermayer, Rafalski, Stevens, Malakov, Daneyko, Sutton, Souray, Odelein, Mitchell
Stars - Hatcher, Zubov, Matvichuk, Sydor, Lukowich, Ludwig
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Murphy, Mironov, Fetisov, Eriksson
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Murphy, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Ward, Pusher, Ericsson
Avalanche - Ozolinsh, Foote, Gusarov, Leschyshyn, Lefebvre, Klemm, Krupp
Devils - Niedermayer, Stevens, Daneyko, Albelin, Chambers
Rangers - Leetch, Zubov, Lowe, Karpovtsev, Beukeboom, Lidster
Montreal - Desjardins, Schneider, Daigneault, Odelein, Brisebois
Penguins - Murphy, Coffey, Samuelsson, Stanton, Paek
Penguins -Murphy, Coffey, Zalapski, Stanton, Samuelsson


Having a stacked center depth didn't help the Avs when they had a crap defense, and mistakes from defenseman were what lost the Avs the series against Vegas. Not their center depth.

Defense was, is, and always will be what wins you championships.

 

[henchman21]

If center depth is so key, why couldn't the Avs get anywhere with Duchene, ROR, Stastny, and MacKinnon that year? They couldn't even beat the Wild that year. And even the year after, Stastny was essentially replaced by MacKinnon, and we didn't even make the playoffs.

At the time, we all said it was because our defense sucked. I don't think we were wrong about that, the defense DID suck, and it held us back a ton. As Seph was saying, we basically traded our center depth for defensive depth, and we're a much better team for it.

I definitely buy that center depth is important, but it's not everything, because if it was the Avs would have been contenders in 2014 and 2015.

Duchene was injured, but as much as that, the Avs best defensemen got taken out of the series. And you still need a good defense, not a bunch of crap with a couple good even if overplayed guys.

 

[Foppa2118]

Jesus Christ. Also the Wings having prime Zetterberg + Datsyuk as their 1-2 combo? Ridiculous.

This same Red Wings team had Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Chelios, and Lebda on defense.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Well you left out some teams as well. Below is a list of all the Cup winners in the last 30 years.

Nearly all the teams have stacked defenses, while there are a few outliers like Carolina who was a fluke in general that year, or some of the Pens teams where they can get away with average defenses when they have arguably the two best players in the world in their prime with Crosby and Malkin.

Lightning - Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak
Lightning - Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Shattenkirk
Blues - Pietrangelo, Parayko, Bouwmeester, Edmundson, Dunn
Capitals - Carlson, Orlov, Orpik, Niskanen
Penguins - Letang, Hainsey, Schultz, Dailey, Cole, Dumoulin, Maata
Penguins - Letang, Dailey, Maata, Dumoulin, Lovejoy, Cole, Scuderi
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya
Kings - Dougthy, Voynov, Mitchell, Muzzin, Regehr, Greene, Martinez
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya, Leddy
Kings - Dougthy, Mitchell, Voynov, Scuderi, Johnson, Greene, Martinez
Bruins - Chara, Seidenberg, Kaberle, Boychuk, Ferrence
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Cambell, Byfuglien
Penguins - Gonchar, Letang, Whitney, Orpik, Scuderi, Goligoski, Boucher
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Chelios, Lebda
Ducks - Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, O'Donnell, Jackman
Carolina - Hedican, Kaberle, Ward, Commodore, Wallin
Lightning - Boyle, Sydor, Kubina, Cullimore, Lukowich, Sarich
Devils - Niedermayer, Rafalski, Stevens, Zyuzin, White, Daneyko
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Chelios, Fischer, Slegr, Krupp, Olausson
Avalanche - Bourque, Blake, Foote, Miller, De Vries, Skoula, Klemm, Gusarov
Devils - Niedermayer, Rafalski, Stevens, Malakov, Daneyko, Sutton, Souray, Odelein, Mitchell
Stars - Hatcher, Zubov, Matvichuk, Sydor, Lukowich, Ludwig
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Murphy, Mironov, Fetisov, Eriksson
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Murphy, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Ward, Pusher, Ericsson
Avalanche - Ozolinsh, Foote, Gusarov, Leschyshyn, Lefebvre, Klemm, Krupp
Devils - Niedermayer, Stevens, Daneyko, Albelin, Chambers
Rangers - Leetch, Zubov, Lowe, Karpovtsev, Beukeboom, Lidster
Montreal - Desjardins, Schneider, Daigneault, Odelein, Brisebois
Penguins - Murphy, Coffey, Samuelsson, Stanton, Paek
Penguins -Murphy, Coffey, Zalapski, Stanton, Samuelsson


Having a stacked center depth didn't help the Avs when they had a crap defense, and mistakes from defenseman were what lost the Avs the series against Vegas. Not their center depth.

Defense was, is, and always will be what wins you championships.

Yeah no wonder the previous deep C core the Avs had didn't go anywhere with that defense. You have to have a bit of both to win. But it's not a surprise the Avs are struggling to make an impact when their C core is this far behind all the other contenders. That's the point here. The defense is incredible and yet.... we're still not getting it done because our C's get their teeth kicked in every year.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah no wonder the previous deep C core the Avs had didn't go anywhere with that defense. You have to have a bit of both to win. But it's not a surprise the Avs are struggling to make an impact when their C core is this far behind all the other contenders. That's the point here. The defense is incredible and yet.... we're still not getting it done because our C's get their teeth kicked in every year.

Defensemen raise the floor, centers win titles.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah no wonder the previous deep C core the Avs had didn't go anywhere with that defense. You have to have a bit of both to win. But it's not a surprise the Avs are struggling to make an impact when their C core is this far behind all the other contenders. That's the point here. The defense is incredible and yet.... we're still not getting it done because our C's get their teeth kicked in every year.

I just think this whole center depth narrative started before the playoffs, and was reinforced when people look at how the Avs played without Kadri in the playoffs.

I've said this before, but a MacKinnon-Kadri 1-2 combo is still among the best in the league. And I think there's a good chance Kadri has a career year next season.

If he does, I think a lot of people will change their tune on both Kadri and the perceived weakness of the Avs center depth.

 

[Foppa2118]

Defensemen raise the floor, centers win titles.

False. "Defense wins championships" has been known and said for my entire lifetime for a reason. Because it's proven to be true over and over again in multiple sports. I've never heard "centers win you championships" until this recent narrative took off.

Having good centers is important, and having a really good 1C is important, but none of it means anything without a good defense.

A hell of a lot more teams with good defenses and average offenses have won Cups in the last 30 years, than teams with average defenses and good offenses.

 

[Avsboy]

Well you left out some teams as well. Below is a list of all the Cup winners in the last 30 years.

Nearly all the teams have stacked defenses, while there are a few outliers like Carolina who was a fluke in general that year, or some of the Pens teams where they can get away with average defenses when they have arguably the two best players in the world in their prime with Crosby and Malkin.

Lightning - Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak
Lightning - Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Shattenkirk
Blues - Pietrangelo, Parayko, Bouwmeester, Edmundson, Dunn
Capitals - Carlson, Orlov, Orpik, Niskanen
Penguins - Letang, Hainsey, Schultz, Dailey, Cole, Dumoulin, Maata
Penguins - Letang, Dailey, Maata, Dumoulin, Lovejoy, Cole, Scuderi
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya
Kings - Dougthy, Voynov, Mitchell, Muzzin, Regehr, Greene, Martinez
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya, Leddy
Kings - Dougthy, Mitchell, Voynov, Scuderi, Johnson, Greene, Martinez
Bruins - Chara, Seidenberg, Kaberle, Boychuk, Ferrence
Blackhawks - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Cambell, Byfuglien
Penguins - Gonchar, Letang, Whitney, Orpik, Scuderi, Goligoski, Boucher
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Chelios, Lebda
Ducks - Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, O'Donnell, Jackman
Carolina - Hedican, Kaberle, Ward, Commodore, Wallin
Lightning - Boyle, Sydor, Kubina, Cullimore, Lukowich, Sarich
Devils - Niedermayer, Rafalski, Stevens, Zyuzin, White, Daneyko
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Chelios, Fischer, Slegr, Krupp, Olausson
Avalanche - Bourque, Blake, Foote, Miller, De Vries, Skoula, Klemm, Gusarov
Devils - Niedermayer, Rafalski, Stevens, Malakov, Daneyko, Sutton, Souray, Odelein, Mitchell
Stars - Hatcher, Zubov, Matvichuk, Sydor, Lukowich, Ludwig
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Murphy, Mironov, Fetisov, Eriksson
Red Wings - Lidstrom, Murphy, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Ward, Pusher, Ericsson
Avalanche - Ozolinsh, Foote, Gusarov, Leschyshyn, Lefebvre, Klemm, Krupp
Devils - Niedermayer, Stevens, Daneyko, Albelin, Chambers
Rangers - Leetch, Zubov, Lowe, Karpovtsev, Beukeboom, Lidster
Montreal - Desjardins, Schneider, Daigneault, Odelein, Brisebois
Penguins - Murphy, Coffey, Samuelsson, Stanton, Paek
Penguins -Murphy, Coffey, Zalapski, Stanton, Samuelsson


Having a stacked center depth didn't help the Avs when they had a crap defense, and mistakes from defenseman were what lost the Avs the series against Vegas. Not their center depth.

Defense was, is, and always will be what wins you championships.

Post of the year. Has a lot of research, it's clearly true, and it includes the main reason Avs lost to Vegas - defensive gaffes.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I just think this whole center depth narrative started before the playoffs, and was reinforced when people look at how the Avs played without Kadri in the playoffs.

I've said this before, but a MacKinnon-Kadri 1-2 combo is still among the best in the league. And I think there's a good chance Kadri has a career year next season.

If he does, I think a lot of people will change their tune on both Kadri and the perceived weakness of the Avs center depth.

I've been pushing C depth since before Kadri was here. I mean Kadri is fine, assuming his play last year isn't a the new norm. The issue at the moment is Jost and Belly. They just can't compete against the likes of Faksa, Cirelli, Gourde, JGP, Danault, Johnson, Cizikas, Trochek, Staal, etc. Kadri was a step in the right direction but they continue to try and patchwork it year after year after year.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I don’t think there’s a set formula. The big thing is, you don’t want all your talent on the wing.

Not missing key players due to injury/suspension would be big help come playoff time.