Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)

[henchman21]

Peter holland was put on waivers today. Wouldn't mind him as a depth/4th line forward.

Toronto is waiving him to build up their arbitration case.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

If Stuart would have gone willingly to LTIR, he wouldn't have been bought out.

I guess he still had some "pride" he wanted to display. Too bad for him he gambled and lost, there won't be a NHL team that needs his services for even one year. Best case scenario he gets a PTO and earns a contract somewhere if he can be healthy enough, which I highly doubt.

Wondering what happens with Skille, he was a solid 4th liner for us and I'd be fine with him returning for another year.

 

[tigervixxxen]

And ideally teams want about $2 million in space when they start the season.

I wonder now if it was wise to buy out Stuart. They now don't have the option to LTIR him in the event they have to go over the cap.

They can LTIR someone when they get injured. Has to be more than a 2 week thing but that's how these other teams to it. I think as long as they leave enough room to comfortably call up one person they'll be ok. Elson is dirt cheap, like 575k, if they really are scraping the top he'd be a good callup option.

 

[Pokecheque]

So long as the Avs don't roll out the Worst Fourth Line in The League again, I'm fine with whatever they do. The fact they had a reasonably solid 4th line in McLeod-Mitchell-Skille that could actually be trusted to take a defensive zone start was a huge factor in any success the Avs enjoyed last season. When it was McLeod-Cliche-Talbot...y'know I'm just not even gonna go there again.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I guess he still had some "pride" he wanted to display. Too bad for him he gambled and lost, there won't be a NHL team that needs his services for even one year. Best case scenario he gets a PTO and earns a contract somewhere if he can be healthy enough, which I highly doubt.

Wondering what happens with Skille, he was a solid 4th liner for us and I'd be fine with him returning for another year.

Skilles future with the Avs likely hinges on how much Barrie ends up getting. I imagine if they get Barrie for 6 or less they'll extend him an offer

 

[Joe Sakic]

Hoping Barrie at 5.5

Pirri at whatever left (~2Mish?)

 

[Pokecheque]

Hoping Barrie at 5.5

Pirri at whatever left (~2Mish?)

I think if that happens they absolutely MUST move either McLeod or Mitchell then. They can't afford to be right up against the cap.

 

[henchman21]

I think if that happens they absolutely MUST move either McLeod or Mitchell then. They can't afford to be right up against the cap.

It isn't a must. They can send down a defensemen (likely Bigras), still have a 7th D on the roster, and start banking cap space. Every day they are under gives a few more dollars where they can be over. Would it be better to have some breathing room from the beginning? Absolutely, but a number of teams manage this every year.

 

[Pokecheque]

It isn't a must. They can send down a defensemen (likely Bigras), still have a 7th D on the roster, and start banking cap space. Every day they are under gives a few more dollars where they can be over. Would it be better to have some breathing room from the beginning? Absolutely, but a number of teams manage this every year.

I feel like they got into a real jam the other year when they had Briere and absolutely no cap room to speak of. You're right of course, it isn't a "must" but yikes...they're playing with fire if they decide to go that close to the cap to start the year.

 

[henchman21]

I feel like they got into a real jam the other year when they had Briere and absolutely no cap room to speak of. You're right of course, it isn't a "must" but yikes...they're playing with fire if they decide to go that close to the cap to start the year.

I don't remember that being a jam as much as Roy being stubborn and not calling anyone up. They will be able to call players up pretty easily if there is a 2 week + injury. If there is one shorter, they will have banked up room as long as they are not right up against it (I don't think they will be).

 

[McMetal]

Using every penny of cap space is all well and good for armchair GMs, but in the real world, nobody wants to be that close up against the cap unless they are making a push for the cup, and even then not every time. I doubt Sakic signs anybody else without dumping another contract to make some cap space, unless by some miracle Barrie gets 5m or less in arbitration.

 

[henchman21]

9 teams ended last year within 200k of the cap. 2 more were within 500k. 4 more were within a million (so half the league was within a million of the cap). That is with banking and LTIR. More teams approach the cap than people realize.

 

[Pokecheque]

Using every penny of cap space is all well and good for armchair GMs and Philadelphia, but in the real world, nobody wants to be that close up against the cap unless they are making a push for the cup, and even then not every time. I doubt Sakic signs anybody else without dumping another contract to make some cap space, unless by some miracle Barrie gets 5m or less in arbitration.

Fixed

 

[tigervixxxen]

Using every penny of cap space is all well and good for armchair GMs, but in the real world, nobody wants to be that close up against the cap unless they are making a push for the cup, and even then not every time. I doubt Sakic signs anybody else without dumping another contract to make some cap space, unless by some miracle Barrie gets 5m or less in arbitration.

There's a lot of teams that live and die by it, I don't think it's just the contenders. Any team that has a couple expensive contracts on the books has to start playing the game. That's why they want their AHL affiliates so close because they do the callup shuffle and count it out on a daily basis. I remember a couple years ago LA was $150 short the cap space to call someone up so they didn't even dress a full roster for a game and waited the 2 days until the guy was cheap enough to call up. That's how these teams manage the cap. I'm not saying it's the best idea to live in the edge but it's what teams have to do to use every dollar and CBA provided morsel they have. Two year ago the Avs got within 450k or so of the cap when they had several callups and even had to LTIR Wilson to get space. If it's the difference between bringing another forward in or not then they'll probably do it.

A lot of those AHL guys signed for cheap nhl money but have high AHL guarantees. Much easier to call guys up when they only cost 600k vs 925k

 

[Balthazar]

9 teams ended last year within 200k of the cap.

How many of these missed the playoffs?

 

[henchman21]

How many of these missed the playoffs?

I think only a couple that were that close, the list is up on capfriendly. The vast majority of those 15 teams close to the cap are not teams that people would consider contenders.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I think only a couple that were that close, the list is up on capfriendly. The vast majority of those 15 teams close to the cap are not teams that people would consider contenders.

I think it is much easier for borderline teams to be right up against it rather than true contenders in that the borderline teams are often trying to squeeze more out of its depth players -- either out of necessity or experimentation -- Contending teams typically have a much better idea of what their organizational depth chart is and have a clearer picture of what their cap will look like over a 4-5 year window.

Take the Avs for example. They won't be signing any big name free agents or making splashy trades for the bottom half of the roster....however each of the last few years they have made smaller moves to try and find the right mojo at the back half of the roster. This has resulted in having a hodgepodge of talent at the NHL and AHL level of rookies and vets as they have tried and failed to find the right mix several years in a row...along with collecting a few too many players that cost just a tad too much.

Thus, some of those failed pieces -- or pieces that have overstayed their effectiveness/chemistry/need on the roster -- namely McLeod and Mitchell, make things all the tighter as they are marginalized by newer signings... Comeau, Soda, Colburne, ext.

So you end up with bubble teams still trying to form an identity playing the cap shimmy all year for a season or two while their depth sorts out.

True contenders on the other hand really only come up against it if/when they go all in on a more expensive option at the trade deadline. They intentionally try to save money early in the year so they have some cap cushion to use for a big push.

 

[tigervixxxen]

For me, what they do with the cap space in 17-18 will be telling. Are they going to spend to the cap then? Go after a big FA (I know the market won't be fantastic, like always), get some higher end depth pieces and use up most of the cap? I know they can't go insane because signing Zadorov, Rantanen, Bigras would be on the horizon but it's not as critical to save money with nearly all the core locked up.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

For me, what they do with the cap space in 17-18 will be telling. Are they going to spend to the cap then? Go after a big FA (I know the market won't be fantastic, like always), get some higher end depth pieces and use up most of the cap? I know they can't go insane because signing Zadorov, Rantanen, Bigras would be on the horizon but it's not as critical to save money with nearly all the core locked up.

It all depends on how the D prospects develop. If one of Zadorov or Bigras proves to be a legit top 2 defender and the other a good 4-5-6 guy, then they invest in depth spending down the roster....with maybe a 2nd line winger in the pipe.

If neither hits, then they will need to make a desperation move or perhaps enter another mini rebuild.

 

[agentblack]

It all depends on how the D prospects develop. If one of Zadorov or Bigras proves to be a legit top 2 defender and the other a good 4-5-6 guy, then they invest in depth spending down the roster....with maybe a 2nd line winger in the pipe.

If neither hits, then they will need to make a desperation move or perhaps enter another mini rebuild.

I doubt we will learn as early as next year as to whether either of them will be considered top 4 material. Its gonna be a couple years, maybe 3 till we know what we have. Until then just stabilize , stabilize, stabilize. Surround them with good support D and system.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I doubt we will learn as early as next year as to whether either of them will be considered top 4 material. Its gonna be a couple years, maybe 3 till we know what we have. Until then just stabilize , stabilize, stabilize. Surround them with good support D and system.

Not saying they will be 100% ready for the roll. Just that we will have a good idea of what their upside is.

 

[Balthazar]

For me, what they do with the cap space in 17-18 will be telling. Are they going to spend to the cap then? Go after a big FA (I know the market won't be fantastic, like always), get some higher end depth pieces and use up most of the cap? I know they can't go insane because signing Zadorov, Rantanen, Bigras would be on the horizon but it's not as critical to save money with nearly all the core locked up.

Even if both Rantanen and Grigs become reliable top 6 players (and that's a big IF) we'll still need one more top 6 winger. Ideally someone in his mid 20's of JVR/Okposo caliber (what they thought Boedker could have done). That's where the Iggy/Stuart money should go.

 

[Sea Eagles]

So what would everyone's idea of each line player & points be? For me:

Line One:
20-30 goals
45-65 points
Plus / Minus Even

Line Two
15-20 goals
30-45 points
Plus / Minus +5

Line Three:
10-15 goals
15-30 points
Plus / Minus + 10

Line Four:
5-10 goals
5-15 points
Plus / Minus + 15

Or is it more about chemistry, and you can put a player that adds synergy to the more offensive guy to excel?

 

[tucker3434]

Next offseason we start to become a pretty lean team again. I hope they generally stay away from the aging vets in UFA unless it's purely for depth. Short 1-2 year deals for less than $3m only.

 

[Avs44]

Even if both Rantanen and Grigs become reliable top 6 players (and that's a big IF) we'll still need one more top 6 winger. Ideally someone in his mid 20's of JVR/Okposo caliber (what they thought Boedker could have done). That's where the Iggy/Stuart money should go.

No, they don't. In today's NHL nobody gets six "real" top six forwards. If Rantanen becomes the high end top six forward he seemingly can become, then the Avs will have four in Duchene/MacK/Landy/Rantanen. Those other two slots should be filled by skilled tweeners, e.g. Grigorenko and someone similar. The best you can hope for with today's talent and the salary cap is generally two high end players on a line, with one tweener type. You can't stack three high end top six forwards on both or your top two lines, and hope to competitive anywhere else. Maybe Colborne will serve as that tweener type, maybe the Avs go elsewhere, but if Rantanen hits his potential and the Avs don't trade a guy like Duchene, the idea of dropping ~6 million on another forward is foolish.