I'm not a fan of the pure offensive types like Subban and Karlsson, but I don't discount their value. However in the playoffs I do think when games are tighter and they don't have as much room to move the puck. The fact that they can't play as well away from it gets exposed in my opinion.
And if you're consistently getting 30+ assists probably 27/28+ are going to be legit passes and not just pucks bouncing off of you. It's really the same argument that you can make for both
Sorry for the ugly formatting. All these are 5v5, this season. Taken from corsica.hockey.
[fieldset="Primary 5v5 Assists"]1 alex.tanguay 10
2 carl.soderberg 10
3 jarome.iginla 9
4 blake.comeau 9
5 mikhail.grigorenko 9
6 matt.duchene 8
7 gabriel.landeskog 6
8 jack.skille 6
9 nathan.mackinnon 5
10 erik.johnson 5
11 nick.holden 5
12 tyson.barrie 4
13 john.mitchell 3
14 andreas.martinsen 3
15 zach.redmond 3
16 andrew.bodnarchuk 2
17 nikita.zadorov 2
18 cody.mcleod 1
19 francois.beauchemin 1
[/fieldset]
[FIELDSET="5v5 Goals"]1 MATT.DUCHENE 19
2 NATHAN.MACKINNON 10
3 GABRIEL.LANDESKOG 9
4 TYSON.BARRIE 7
5 JOHN.MITCHELL 7
6 CODY.MCLEOD 7
7 JAROME.IGINLA 6
8 JACK.SKILLE 6
9 FRANCOIS.BEAUCHEMIN 5
10 ALEX.TANGUAY 4
11 BLAKE.COMEAU 4
12 ERIK.JOHNSON 4
13 CHRIS.WAGNER 4
14 CARL.SODERBERG 3
15 MIKHAIL.GRIGORENKO 3
16 NICK.HOLDEN 3
17 ANDREAS.MARTINSEN 2
18 ZACH.REDMOND 1
[/FIELDSET]
[FIELDSET="5v5 Primary Points (G+Primary Assists)"]1 MATT.DUCHENE 27
2 NATHAN.MACKINNON 15
3 GABRIEL.LANDESKOG 15
4 JAROME.IGINLA 15
5 ALEX.TANGUAY 14
6 BLAKE.COMEAU 13
7 CARL.SODERBERG 13
8 JACK.SKILLE 12
9 MIKHAIL.GRIGORENKO 12
10 TYSON.BARRIE 11
11 JOHN.MITCHELL 10
12 ERIK.JOHNSON 9
13 CODY.MCLEOD 8
14 NICK.HOLDEN 8
15 FRANCOIS.BEAUCHEMIN 6
16 ANDREAS.MARTINSEN 5
17 CHRIS.WAGNER 4
18 ZACH.REDMOND 4
19 ANDREW.BODNARCHUK 2
20 NIKITA.ZADOROV 2
[/FIELDSET]
[FIELDSET="Penalty Differential (Penalties Drawn - Penalties Taken)"] Player PENDIFF
1 NATHAN.MACKINNON 33
2 MATT.DUCHENE 24
3 GABRIEL.LANDESKOG 23
4 TYSON.BARRIE 12
5 JAROME.IGINLA 10
6 ALEX.TANGUAY 8
7 ERIK.JOHNSON 3
8 FRANCOIS.BEAUCHEMIN 3
9 MIKKO.RANTANEN 3
10 BEN.STREET -1
11 BRANDON.GORMLEY -1
12 DENNIS.EVERBERG -1
13 NICK.HOLDEN -1
14 ANDREW.BODNARCHUK -2
15 NATE.GUENIN -2
16 NIKITA.ZADOROV -2
17 BRAD.STUART -3
18 CHRIS.BIGRAS -5
19 CHRIS.WAGNER -5
20 JOHN.MITCHELL -5
21 MIKHAIL.GRIGORENKO -6
22 ZACH.REDMOND -6
23 ANDREAS.MARTINSEN -7
24 JACK.SKILLE -11
25 CARL.SODERBERG -14
26 BLAKE.COMEAU -15
27 CODY.MCLEOD -20
[/FIELDSET]
Thanks for digging this up kinda nice to see that I'm not crazy and Duchene is by far and away our most productive player.
Thanks for digging this up kinda nice to see that I'm not crazy and Duchene is by far and away our most productive player.
Makes sense though. He's the one who's actually expected to lead us in scoring and is already in his prime. Landy's right where he should be and once MacK gets a little more experience he'll be with Duchene, if not above him.
...We could really use Rads coming over and teaming up with Dutchy to be our Seguin-Benn...
We don't have to worry about this with this core of players. They are just like Edmonton, stuck in a losing culture and mentality. We find ways to lose instead of finding ways to win.
I'm not here to defend Roy or his system, or the lack of one. One thing is for sure and has been a constant throughout Roy and Sacco. And that is the core players, not getting it done.
I'm to the point with our core assembled as is, that I don't even think Mike Babcock or Barry Trotz comes in here and changes things drastically for us.
Edmonton is a perfect example of what is going on with our core guys. Edmonton brings in a fairly decent coach who has his systems and they have decent success at the NHL level. Edmonton also brings in the next Crosby. And where are they? Just as crappy as always. Because their core players are just so accustom to losing that it doesn't matter what system they run, they find ways to lose.
It's time to start blaming the players, we've blamed it on the coaching for far too long. Duchene has been with us for 7 years, Landy 5 years, EJ is 27 years old, Varly is 27 years old. These guys have all been around the organization for a long time. We can't just keep saying that they are young and will get bettter. Eventually they just have to get results. A playoff appearance every four years isn't getting it done.
landeskog definitely should be higher.
I'm wondering how many of those points came when he was paired up with MacK. Duchy has been good with Grigs and Iggy, but I think he was far and away more dynamic on the wing with MacK. They played great together.
In his totals, or in his ranking within the team? Agreed on the former, but not the later. He shouldn't be ahead of Dutchy or MacK, even 5on5.
more on totals. he should't be ahead one point and tied with the corpses of tangs and iggy, respectively.
ftr, i think he would be better if he weren't injured and it would be insanity to trade landeskog.
Sorry but no.
Why would we start blaming the players?
Look at their ages and what they have to work with.
Trading them is just foolish. Haven't we learned that you never win those kind of trades? Duchene is not gonna fetch us a bonafide #1. Aside from MacKinnon noone does.
Duchene is the longest tenured "core" player. This is only his 7th season. The only other pieces left from those dark times are McLeod and Barrie. Aside from that only EJ can be traced back to assets we had at that times.
Almost everyone else was brought in during those 7 years.
Since then we have retooled and seen very important players get traded/ walk.
In those 7 years we have had 2 coaches who have proven nothing on the NHL level.
This roster really is not all that good. We have 0 depth because our management group never really believed in rebuilding.
We made the playoffs twice during a "rebuild" and never really sold. In fact we bought a couple of times.
We certainly are not a well coached team. There are many other teams who are not as talented but who have a working system that helps them overachieve.
The Avs do not have anything to fall back on if they are not 100 % on their game.
I think it is ridiculous. To me this whole organisation (including fans and management) have huge issues when it comes to self-evaluation.
Maybe I even agree with TV to some degree that we are stuck in the past and think of ourselves as that mighty franchise we were 15 years ago.
This is a very young team (atleast if you look at the core) who is not very well coached or managed and has not close to enough depth to make some real noise because they always though that they should be or are better than they really are and never bothered to admit that they were simply not a good organisation/team.
If they stupidly decide to blow it up in the offseason than odds are that the next 10 years won't be any better because the next management would need years to fix the mess that Roy/Sakic would leave behind (aka start another proper rebuild).
Thanks for doing that, I don't get where they come up with the penalty differential. Grigo has 4 PIM this year, how is he a -6?
That's kinda scary Tangs was our highest primary assist producer even this year. I do agree Landy should be higher, he is off of where he's been. I knew Grigo had a lot of primary assists, he definitely earns his points.
Thanks for doing that, I don't get where they come up with the penalty differential. Grigo has 4 PIM this year, how is he a -6?
I'm starting to wonder if it might be the system that needs changing rather than the players. Seems like we have a pretty solid group on paper. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see that any time soon.