Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part VIII

[lonelybadger]

NHL 17 gm deadline day:

Barrie for drouin
Lando for hamonic
Duchene for hanifin

Complete tank and get Patrick/Hischier.

@tiger that's why I can see Carolina throwing him into the trade. He's a sodaberg replacement eventually and isn't a blue chipper.

 

[henchman21]

All this talk about Nicolas Roy, quite ironic given he was a 4th round pick.

In a draft where the could have selected him 4 times. #scouting

 

[Bender]

I think 2017 is the year Duchene does not survive the rumor mill and is actually traded. Hanifin for Duchene makes too much sense at this points. The team needs, the scouting patterns, the stages of rebuild.

I was talking to a friend this morning about this. Until a few weeks ago, my preference had always been to keep the core together and get rid of the deadweight first. But over the past little while I started thinking about the Oilers and how their 'once considered top-notch assets' (Eberle, RNH, Yakupov) all had their value plummet while the new guys (McDavid and Draisaitl) started taking over. The Oilers' window to move those guys out and get max value closed about 1.5 years ago (approximately) and now they are considered to be on 'not great/bad contracts' for what they bring.

Perhaps the Avs are leary of this and prefer to make a move when the going is good?? I don't know. I don't doubt that Duchene would perform extremely well elsewhere though...I think he'd be rejuvenated.

Those lockerroom rumors right now seem to entirely be about MacKinnon throwing hissy fits.

Don't think that is impossible. If the Canes trade for Duchene, they want to go for it right now.

Might as well make it a bigger deal.

Avs seem to like this when it comes to bigger deals. EJ for Shatty/Stewart involved plenty of moving pieces. So did the ROR deal.


Also if the Canes are really desperate for Duchene as RL seems to be indicating, there certainly is a good case to be made that they have to add to Hanifin to land him. We will see. I hope something around those two gets done. If the Avs can squeeze out a bit more than all the better.

I am not aware of the lockerroom issues? Could you point me to the information where I could read up on it?

I think it would HAVE to be a bigger deal regardless. I think both sides wants protection in case (Avs) Hanifin doesn't pan out as expected and (Canes) Duchene bolts for UFA in 2.5 years...if that is indeed the deal.

So something like :

Duchene + Bigras + Tyutin + 2nd Rd Pick

for

Hanifin + Lindholm + Gauthier OR 1st Rd Pick

Or something like that. This also fits into the 'Francis has asked his scouts to scout the Avs organizational prospects' narrative that we heard.

 

[tigervixxxen]

In a draft where the could have selected him 4 times. #scouting

Ours is scoring more anyway

 

[henchman21]

Ours is scoring more anyway

I like Roy more than Beaudin (Roy will transition better IMO), but neither are bad prospects to have.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Need to find a way to get Brendan Lemieux on the team...

 

[AvsGuy]

C Matt Duchene
C John Mitchell



D Noah Hanifin
C Elias Lindholm

 

[LakeLivin]

[MOD]

This wouldn't be as much of an issue if we had more MFing picks in each draft, where it's not Sophie's Choice constantly. Get us some more damn picks and assets is what I'm most concerned about. It's going to take more than one pick or one draft to fix this.
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________

If you're interested in optimizing your rebuild, I'd suggest your first trade should be Joe Sakic for Ron Francis. Just sayin' . . .

 

[Nalens Oga]

Barrie's value isn't high enough to get Drouin to whomever suggested that. Heck I'm not even sure if a team would trade Drouin for MacKinnon anymore.

Trouba is the dman they should be targeting though I'm not sure if they make for trading partners with Wpg. Iircs, the Trouba contract was a sign and trade and those two parties might still be looking to part ways especially if the team finishes badly like they're currently on pace for.

Also I'm not sold on Ron Francis as a GM. I guess the Terevainen move was a good proactive one, possibly the Staal one though it was more reactive, but I'm not sure if he's much better than Sakic in terms of actual trading for players or FA signing. His roster improvements have probably been more reliant on draft picks which come from the scouting department. He did hire Peters though right so that's a good move I guess.

 

[Bender]

[MOD]

This wouldn't be as much of an issue if we had more MFing picks in each draft, where it's not Sophie's Choice constantly. Get us some more damn picks and assets is what I'm most concerned about. It's going to take more than one pick or one draft to fix this.
___________________________________________________________

If you're interested in optimizing your rebuild, I'd suggest your first trade should be Joe Sakic for Ron Francis. Just sayin' . . .

Not sure where this constant Sakic bashing is coming from. The only REAL move he made was the ROR move and Zadorov (the main piece to that deal) has done well and most of the rest of that deal is still in the minors/junior.

As far as Iginla, (Roy was on record as wanting to bring over a guy like that as a UFA when he was hired), Beauchemin (it was reported that Roy negotiated his contract) and Stuart (who knows how that went), Joe Sakic wasn't necessarily the one endorsing these moves. Roy had a say and a big say in which players were going to be on this team.

Sakic was finally the one who said enough, signed a bunch of stop gaps for this season while we jettison all the deadweight, get a high draft pick and start fresh next year. Roy wanted to sign Radulov and keep going for it with this roster. The fact he resigned shows he wasn't on board with the new plan. If anything, it shows Sakic knew where this team was TRULY at instead of keep spinning our wheels and hope to make the playoffs.

 

[hockeyfish]

C Matt Duchene
C John Mitchell



D Noah Hanifin
C Elias Lindholm

Sign me up there.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Not sure where this constant Sakic bashing is coming from. The only REAL move he made was the ROR move and Zadorov (the main piece to that deal) has done well and most of the rest of that deal is still in the minors/junior.

You just answered your own question. If the only positive move a GM has made in 4 seasons of GMing is to bring in a prospect and only when his hand is forced in making that trade, then that GM is utterly incompetent. I look up and down the current line up and Zadorov is the only player on the team brought in by Sakic who's any good outside of the drafted Mac/Rantanen and that's just impressively bad. Oh and I guess maybe Nieto, nice job.

THe 'dead weight' was brought in by him, the poor coaches (at least Bednar) wre brought in by him, and everyone here is speculating when they say which moves were his and which were Roy's. I'm not absolving Roy of blame but he was the head GM, he signed off on those Roy moves or they were partly his as well.

We're last in the league while teams better than us in the standings actually have a notably better prospect pool and you're still gonna defend this clown? Sheesh.

 

[henchman21]

Not sure where this constant Sakic bashing is coming from. The only REAL move he made was the ROR move and Zadorov (the main piece to that deal) has done well and most of the rest of that deal is still in the minors/junior.

As far as Iginla, (Roy was on record as wanting to bring over a guy like that as a UFA when he was hired), Beauchemin (it was reported that Roy negotiated his contract) and Stuart (who knows how that went), Joe Sakic wasn't necessarily the one endorsing these moves. Roy had a say and a big say in which players were going to be on this team.

Sakic was finally the one who said enough, signed a bunch of stop gaps for this season while we jettison all the deadweight, get a high draft pick and start fresh next year. Roy wanted to sign Radulov and keep going for it with this roster. The fact he resigned shows he wasn't on board with the new plan. If anything, it shows Sakic knew where this team was TRULY at instead of keep spinning our wheels and hope to make the playoffs.

Sakic's lack of aggressiveness is a big issue. As you said, the only real big move he has made was the ROR deal which was a forced hand. Sakic has been afraid to make a real move to shore up the defense for years.

As for the other moves... things have been more Sakic than Roy. Absolving Sakic because Roy was here is weird to me. Roy had a lot of influence and he would have done things differently, but that doesn't mean better or worse necessarily. Things would be a lot different if Sakic pulled the trigger on a few Roy moves though.

 

[hockeyfish]

Not sure where this constant Sakic bashing is coming from. The only REAL move he made was the ROR move and Zadorov (the main piece to that deal) has done well and most of the rest of that deal is still in the minors/junior.

As far as Iginla, (Roy was on record as wanting to bring over a guy like that as a UFA when he was hired), Beauchemin (it was reported that Roy negotiated his contract) and Stuart (who knows how that went), Joe Sakic wasn't necessarily the one endorsing these moves. Roy had a say and a big say in which players were going to be on this team.

Sakic was finally the one who said enough, signed a bunch of stop gaps for this season while we jettison all the deadweight, get a high draft pick and start fresh next year. Roy wanted to sign Radulov and keep going for it with this roster. The fact he resigned shows he wasn't on board with the new plan. If anything, it shows Sakic knew where this team was TRULY at instead of keep spinning our wheels and hope to make the playoffs.

We can argue this forever, but bottom line is, Sakic was the GM. It was known he had the final say on all moves. It was his responsibility.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Lindholm is arguably having the best stretch of his career right now; he looks like the player Carolina was hoping for when they drafted him 5th overall in 2013. He had a rough October, but since, he’s put up points at a rate similar to Duchene himself, almost entirely EV/SH. This would be a strange time to deal him at a reduced price. Even if Carolina had to add, I don’t think he’d be the add.

 

[InjuredChoker]

one can be cautiously optimistic about sakic going forward without absolving him from the blame on moves made (regardless of who was pushing for them more, roy or sakic) since he became a GM.

that's where i'm at.

 

[the_fan]

Sakic is responsible for every move, regardless if some of the moves were someone else's idea. He's the GM, he needs to have the vision what kind of a team he wants to build. Coaches will always suggest certain moves, players to GM, but the final say is Sakic.

The fact is that Sakic hired a coach who said he wanted a fast team to play a fast pace game, yet Sakic signs some of the slowest players like Colborne, Tyutin etc..

There is just no defending Sakic, he has no idea what he's doing period

 

[EdAVSfan]

Sakic is responsible for every move, regardless if some of the moves were someone else's idea. He's the GM, he needs to have the vision what kind of a team he wants to build. Coaches will always suggest certain moves, players to GM, but the final say is Sakic.

The fact is that Sakic hired a coach who said he wanted a fast team to play a fast pace game, yet Sakic signs some of the slowest players like Colborne, Tyutin etc..

There is just no defending Sakic, he has no idea what he's doing period

So...
What you're saying is....

Sakic knew bednar was gonna be the coach of the avs on July 1st when tyutin and colborne were signed, even though Roy was the coach until august.

My head hurts.

 

[Ivan13]

Sakic is responsible for every move, regardless if some of the moves were someone else's idea. He's the GM, he needs to have the vision what kind of a team he wants to build. Coaches will always suggest certain moves, players to GM, but the final say is Sakic.

The fact is that Sakic hired a coach who said he wanted a fast team to play a fast pace game, yet Sakic signs some of the slowest players like Colborne, Tyutin etc..

There is just no defending Sakic, he has no idea what he's doing period

He signed them after he hired the coach?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Sakic pretty much has a second chance to put this on the right course, what happens in the next 6 months will basically tell it.

 

[the_fan]

He signed them after he hired the coach?

Does it matter? What matters is that they've been talking about building a young fast team for years, but they went from fast, young to old and slow very quickly and it's no one to blame but the GM

 

[Ivan13]

Does it matter? What matters is that they've been talking about building a young fast team for years, but they went from fast, young to old and slow very quickly and it's no one of blame but the GM

You're rambling on, but now that it is clear you're talking nonsense it doesn't matter?

 

[Nalens Oga]

If the entire world had people defending it and giving it third chances to the extent that Joe Sakic does then the world would be a very different place lol.

 

[LakeLivin]

[MOD]

Tigervixxen specifically addressed the AVs currently less than ideal picks and prospects situation. Francis has done a phenomenal job in positioning the Canes in both those areas, which could be viewed as one of the major reasons we're good potential trade partners. My post was meant as a light-hearted nod to how much better RF has done in that area than Sakic. I don't know Sakic's body of work well enough to seriously criticize him beyond that.

 

[JoemAvs]

Sakic pretty much has a second chance to put this on the right course, what happens in the next 6 months will basically tell it.

Yep. The next 6 months will tell us a lot.

Sakic has to get everything right from now till July 2nd.

If he screws up the Landy/Duchene situation, the deadline, the draft or July 1st, he should be fired asap and will go down as one of the bigger failures when it comes to star players turning GM.

If he gets a good return for atleast one of Duchene/Landeskog and backs up his recent talk about getting younger and wanting to rebuild, he still has a shot of correcting the narrative about him in the coming years. Will be hard to do because he has dug himself a pretty deep hole so far but not impossible.