Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part V

[CobraAcesS]

If Rattie doesn't work out, all Avs have to do is not qualify him.

Only risk is that some of our AHL kids might feel side stepped if they give him a run in the NHL, but since Greer and Compher are rookies, it should be fine. Grimaldi seems to already be forgotten. He got one period and that was that.

He could also allow them to keep someone in the AHL they'd normally bring up in the event one of the veterans was traded. Seeing as we should have at least probably two rentals traded in Iginla, and Tyutin.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

After this year though, they could possibly have nothing to show for it. Stewart got traded for Miller and Ott, both of whom left via UFA, Shattenkirk will probably leave via UFA (won't trade him when in the playoff hunt, doubtful he re-signs), and now Rattie is on waivers.

That trade helped establish the blues as a playoff team every year for half a decade.

What did the Avs get out of it?

 

[5280]

That trade helped establish the blues as a playoff team every year for half a decade.

What did the Avs get out of it?

Not sure it helped them that much more than us, though, and we seemed to take a lot of **** for that trade.

Looking back it was really ended up being a "hockey trade", as they call it, Shatty for EJ. Everybody else sucks now. At least EJ will still be playing for us.

Not saying we "won" the trade but at least we took the chance.

 

[henchman21]

Not sure it helped them that much more than us, though, and we seemed to take a lot of **** for that trade.

I'd personally take 5 straight years of playoffs with a 2nd round and conference final exit over 1 1st round playoff exit.

If you look at a lot of trades 6 years later you find that teams don't get a ton out of them. The last 6 years of Shatty along with the other service and return of Stewart has value to it. Now St Louis wasn't able to get over the hump in their window (IMO because of a lack of a #1C and not being aggressive enough in that pursuit), but they were a good the vast majority of the time since the trade. The Avs have been bad.

I'd still make that trade every time... for both clubs. St Louis and Colorado did well.

 

[5280]

I'd personally take 5 straight years of playoffs with a 2nd round and conference final exit over 1 1st round playoff exit.

If you look at a lot of trades 6 years later you find that teams don't get a ton out of them. The last 6 years of Shatty along with the other service and return of Stewart has value to it. Now St Louis wasn't able to get over the hump in their window (IMO because of a lack of a #1C and not being aggressive enough in that pursuit), but they were a good the vast majority of the time since the trade. The Avs have been bad.

I'd still make that trade every time... for both clubs. St Louis and Colorado did well.

We suck, can't argue that, but how much did that trade actually help them though?

I'd agree with your last sentence. Nothing wrong with that trade from the Avs point imo. The worst case scenario for us is basically what we got, a mediocre #1. Upside would have been if EJ really did pan out as a true stud #1 and we cashed in on the draft pick. I don't have any problems with them trying this trade out, though. Like I said, we still have EJ.

 

[Sea Eagles]

For the same reasons I initially stated under Roy, I'm not sure yet Bednar is "the" problem right now. Can he be better? Well obviously (as Henchy has pointed out, he hasn't seemed to adjust to certain players to "kick start" them). But I said back then with Roy that at some point the players have to shoulder their fair share of the problems here. Can't keep cycling through coaches.

Roy's not off the hook for how the team played (he needed better gameplanning this year if he had stuck around), but we're still seeing some failures, and there's plenty of blame amongst the players to go around.

I'm with Henchy, they should have been more aggressive this past off season when there were some viable trades to be made, I do get a bit worried in wondering how those offers might change with this off season. We'll have to see what Sakic and MacFarland can do when the time comes.

I'm sorry for quoting you based on how you feel about me, but I'd love to say something about this. I completely agree with what you are saying. You'd have to be pretty hard on Bednar to pin these problems on him.

Apart from Goloubef & Pratt, what input has he had in the structure and make-up of this roster?

Bednar seems a thinking mans coach. What I have seen with this group over the past 7-8 years, is they have reacted (short term) to the "inspiring" type of off ice leader, and while that may get very short term results, it's not sustainable, especially with a roster that is still immature in its building process.

Out of all the coaches we have had recently (Quenneville, Granato, Sacco, Roy & Bednar), I feel Bednar is most like Quenneville in his approach to systems & culture - and that can't be a bad thing.

I like Bednar, but jeez, he put his hand up for a very tough gig. We have to give him 2-3 years at least to fully implement his systems, integrate some of his players of choice, tinker with the roster (cap considering - and the release of the shackles at the end of this season).

Otherwise, what's the alternative? Another coach? Quenneville was with us in 2008. That's 8-9 years ago. Fire Bednar, get a new coach in, that would be 6 coaches in 9-10 years. Like you said, based on that, the players have to bare the responsability here.

That, and this is where we may disagree a little - Joe Sakic. I understand why people say 13-14 was a fluke, especially off the back of Varly playing like a demon. BUT, whilst the key indicators were down (shots allowed, zone time, corsi - all that junk), our players all played to the death - they never gave up - they played with chemistry.

And it's that chemistry I fault Sakic for messing with (or lacked the ability to keep intact.)

In a successful team, there are many small pieces that make parts of the collective good. Some pieces go unnoticed or aren't recognised for their contributions. This is why guys like Mcginn, Downie, ROR added grit & aggression (not talking about fighting either). Jeez, we had two players that got 10 points, in 7 playoff games, and that line was broken up that off-season.

 

[henchman21]

We suck, can't argue that, but how much did that trade actually help them though?

I'd agree with your last sentence. Nothing wrong with that trade from the Avs point imo. The worst case scenario for us is basically what we got, a mediocre #1. Upside would have been if EJ really did pan out as a true stud #1 and we cashed in on the draft pick. I don't have any problems with them trying this trade out. Like I said, we still have EJ.

I'd say it helped quite a bit. Shatty gave them an element they desperately needed from the backend (offense and PP QB).

I have absolutely no issues with the trade. I'd prefer a front office be aggressive in trying to solve their issues over being passive. I think it is pretty clear I'd make one of these sorts of moves now if it was available.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I honestly feel like we should give Bednar and Sakic an actual off-season where they can try to add more players that would actually fit the system that Bednar wants to play before we blame him for all that's wrong and burn everything to the ground.

 

[Foppberg]

Bednar yes, I still have faith in him. Sakic I'm not sure.

 

[henchman21]

I honestly feel like we should give Bednar and Sakic an actual off-season where they can try to add more players that would actually fit the system that Bednar wants to play before we blame him for all that's wrong and burn everything to the ground.

Bednar will get a second season (and Sakic will stick around if he wants). I completely disagree with tailoring the roster to Bednar though. Yeah there will be some of that, but it shouldn't be to an extreme degree. NHL coaches have a short lifespan and if you want to tailor the roster to the coach every time it will be an endless cycle. Bednar has to learn to win with what he is given.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Such a bonehead move by Dater earlier to say Chicago has interest in Iginla. All he had to do was just a bit of research before throwing crazy crap at the wall. Instead he read Friedman's quote, tried to run off with it on his own and then quickly started back peddling as he got attacked for it.

I like Dater more than most. I respect the fact that he has sources in the Avs organization (among some others) but stupid speculation like this is why people don't respect him and why those sources he has will continue to diminish.

 

[BaconNater]

What was the reaction around here when the EJ trade went down? Freak out? Excitement? Sorry a bit random but I wasn't around!

 

[5280]

I'd say it helped quite a bit. Shatty gave them an element they desperately needed from the backend (offense and PP QB).

I have absolutely no issues with the trade. I'd prefer a front office be aggressive in trying to solve their issues over being passive. I think it is pretty clear I'd make one of these sorts of moves now if it was available.

Yeah, you're probably right, but the Avalanche fan in me says they (St. Louis) aren't going to win a cup anyway. So it's all good from my perspective, lol.

Yeah, I almost miss Lacroix's wheeling and dealing days. I'm not sure Sakic has it in him. (We'll see I guess)

 

[dahrougem2]

What was the reaction around here when the EJ trade went down? Freak out? Excitement? Sorry a bit random but I wasn't around!

I recall at the time of the trade I was angry, but I was also 17 years old lol. Though I don't recall being angry about EJ, it was more about the fact that we got Jay McClemment for Chris Stewart as, at the time, I analyzed the deal as "forward for forward, d-man for d-man"

 

[5280]

What was the reaction around here when the EJ trade went down? Freak out? Excitement? Sorry a bit random but I wasn't around!

More like Oh, ****! Now our season is really ****ed.

Edit: Woops, never mind, misread your question.

I just remember taking a lot of heat all across the main boards, especially from St Louis people. They were the absolute worst at the time.

I was all excited that we might have actually landed a true #1.

 

[henchman21]

Such a bonehead move by Dater earlier to say Chicago has interest in Iginla. All he had to do was just a bit of research before throwing crazy crap at the wall. Instead he read Friedman's quote, tried to run off with it on his own and then quickly started back peddling as he got attacked for it.

I like Dater more than most. I respect the fact that he has sources in the Avs organization (among some others) but stupid speculation like this is why people don't respect him and why those sources he has will continue to diminish.

Lazerus said he heard Iggy's name as well, but cap issues prevent it. The cap issues are actually pretty minor if we are looking at an early Feb-deadline sort of trade. Chicago can bank, Avs can retain (and will have taken a big part of the hit already), and send a player like Hartman down or trade back a ~800k contract.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Lazerus said he heard Iggy's name as well, but cap issues prevent it. The cap issues are actually pretty minor if we are looking at an early Feb-deadline sort of trade. Chicago can bank, Avs can retain (and will have taken a big part of the hit already), and send a player like Hartman down or trade back a ~800k contract.

Lots will of course change closer to the deadline. I'm talking specifically about Dater's painfully obvious attempt to try to run off with Friedman's quote about the Hawks being trigger happy on getting a Toews a winger. Trigger happy doesn't mean at the deadline. Especially when you consider that Hosea is almost ready to return.

 

[henchman21]

Lots will of course change closer to the deadline. I'm talking specifically about Dater's painfully obvious attempt to try to run off with Friedman's quote about the Hawks being trigger happy on getting a Toews a winger. Trigger happy doesn't mean at the deadline. Especially when you consider that Hosea is almost ready to return.

Yeah that is just classic Dater... I don't believe it is baseless though. Dater just ran with something at a prime opportunity to get attention. Any Iggy deal is going to be a Feb sort of deal, and the Hawks aren't going to add until close to the deadline. I do believe they will want to shore up their forward depth and Iggy would be an option. It makes sense for a number of reasons. Wouldn't cost a terrible amount (2nd or so), has a scoring reputation, no contract next season, etc.

Dater has been on the Iggy rumors before Iggy even got here. I think he has real legit sources there.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah, you're probably right, but the Avalanche fan in me says they (St. Louis) aren't going to win a cup anyway. So it's all good from my perspective, lol.

Yeah, I almost miss Lacroix's wheeling and dealing days. I'm not sure Sakic has it in him. (We'll see I guess)

Don't forget, Lacroix didn't have much Lacroix in him once the cap was in place. I'm really pressed to think of a GM who suffered more misfortune in the early days of the new CBA. Pierre was a fantastic trader, but a terrible draft/development guy, and paid little heed to the value of role players. You have no choice but to put stock in those things in today's NHL.

 

[5280]

Don't forget, Lacroix didn't have much Lacroix in him once the cap was in place. I'm really pressed to think of a GM who suffered more misfortune in the early days of the new CBA. Pierre was a fantastic trader, but a terrible draft/development guy, and paid little heed to the value of role players. You have no choice but to put stock in those things in today's NHL.

He definitely left us in a big hole, one we're still digging out of.

 

[AslanRH]

I honestly feel like we should give Bednar and Sakic an actual off-season where they can try to add more players that would actually fit the system that Bednar wants to play before we blame him for all that's wrong and burn everything to the ground.

This times 100.

I also think a full trade deadline and offseason where Sakic isn't working with Roy in his ear too.

As for Iginla to the Hawks, I would trade Iggy @ 50% out of respect but what I really hope is they try and get Kruger. Even at $3m I think he'd be the closest this team has come to replacing Yelle.

 

[Foppa]

This times 100.

I also think a full trade deadline and offseason where Sakic isn't working with Roy in his ear too.

As for Iginla to the Hawks, I would trade Iggy @ 50% out of respect but what I really hope is they try and get Kruger. Even at $3m I think he'd be the closest this team has come to replacing Yelle.

I'd definitely take Kruger back. Absolutely. He's a lot of what the Avs need and with Chicago pinching pennies to keep their core, I'd absolutely make a run at him. Even better if they'll take back Iggy.

 

[PAZ]

This times 100.

I also think a full trade deadline and offseason where Sakic isn't working with Roy in his ear too.

As for Iginla to the Hawks, I would trade Iggy @ 50% out of respect but what I really hope is they try and get Kruger. Even at $3m I think he'd be the closest this team has come to replacing Yelle.

I'm not very confident in Sakic, I think the Boedker trade had little to do with Roy's opinion. I didn't mind it at the time, but I was definitely wrong. Wood by himself is making the trade look bad, ignoring Tanguay + 2nd round pick.

With that being said, Sakic should be the person who knows the most about his prospects.

 

[hockeyfish]

What was the reaction around here when the EJ trade went down? Freak out? Excitement? Sorry a bit random but I wasn't around!

For me it was mostly confusion as to why a trade happened at midnight.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

For me it was mostly confusion as to why a trade happened at midnight.

I remember being a young high school kid when the Rob Blake trade was announced at 1 AM Eastern time after our game. Deader and Miller even played that night.