Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part V

[henchman21]

Ahhh that new thread smell.

Click to read more...

 

[xbestboybandever]

Ahhh that new thread smell.

Time to get that brand new crap stench in here.

 

[Avs44]

I was at a restaurant earlier and saw TSN on a TV. Dreger was taking for at least 3-4 minutes, and they were showing highlights of Duchene and Landeskog and had their picture up. Did anyone from Canada catch that or hear about it? Was there anything new, or was it just crappy speculation?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I was at a restaurant earlier and saw TSN on a TV. Dreger was taking for at least 3-4 minutes, and they were showing highlights of Duchene and Landeskog and had their picture up. Did anyone from Canada catch that or hear about it? Was there anything new, or was it just crappy speculation?

Was it just highlights of the last leafs/Avs game. Watching that's hockey right now and they're showing highlights from that game as a prep for tonight.

 

[UncleRisto]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/do-the-avs-needs-to-trade-one-of-their-core-pieces~1022503

It's this. Geoblocked.

 

[Avs44]

Edit: Yeah, that's it. Nothing too interesting there at all, but thanks for posting it Risto.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/do-the-avs-needs-to-trade-one-of-their-core-pieces~1022503

It's this. Geoblocked.

Dreger says it may be time to make a move. There's been speculation for a year that Sakic may move a core player. Before the draft there were talks with at least one western conference team about Landeskog (Anaheim I assume since Dreger brought this up before)

Dreger says Sakic is the architect of this roster and needs to take some responsibility for the state this team is in right now.

 

[Foppa2118]

The reason no, but it embodies so many things that's wrong with this org it truly is a cherry on top of their futility. And trust me, I'd love to stop talking about it and forget it ever happened.

I think it somewhat embodies other moves but only in the sense that they're willing to move prospects or picks occasionally, and IMO that in and of itself is not really indicative of how they ended up where they are.

Them moving a few mid tier prospect or mid picks can be a problem but mostly when the player's they bring in don't help them. That's what really makes it a problem, and that's where the focus should be IMO. If more of the players that they brought in and kept helped them the way someone like Matthias for example did in his short time, they might have a decent team.

This to me is the root of the problem. Their inability to identify players that can help them. This includes their long line of crap defenseman, and poor depth players.

2013

UFA's - Benoit, Guenin, and Holden.
Waivers - Cliche
Trades - Berra
Extensions - Mitchell for 3 years

2014

UFA - Iginla, Redmond,
Trades - Brad Stuart, Jordan Caron
Extensions - Holden for three years. Stuart for 2 years before the season started.

2015

UFA - Comeau
Waivers - Wagner, Bodnarchuk
Trades - Gormley, Freddie Hamilton, Gelinas

2016

UFA - Wiercioch, Tyutin, Colborne


Add all this to prospects like Olver, Cumiskey, Heard, Hensick, Sgarbossa, Malone, Stollery, Elliott, Carey, and Hishon, that they tried to build with that just didn't work.

Plus trades to fill out their team for players that maybe weren't poor trade value, but included guys that just weren't that good like Talbot, Briere, Sarich, Tanguay, and now unfortunately Grigorenko.

Then we see how the problem just keeps compounding itself. Just bad all around, and rooted in an inability to identify good players.

You could probably add Beauchemin to that list of bad signings given how far his game has fallen off, even though I think he might have been the Avs best D last year.

If you go back to the previous regime you see similar moves. SOB, ROB, PAP, Palushaj, Mitchell, Zanon, Kobasew, Porter extensions to guys like Jones, Wilson, Arnason.

These are all players they thought they could build teams with, and they're all mediocre at best players. When you build a team with mediocre players and then just stop adding, thinking you can get by with them, you get a mediocre team.

They made the problem worse by drafting too may one dimensional players that didn't pan out instead of decent depth players. Plus trading away a couple 1st round picks in the last decade, and missing on a couple others, and that makes the problem even worse.

What you have with all those decisions combined, and all those guys on a team, is a perpetual group that needs some really high end players to carry the team.

Now we see why the core is in question. It's not that they're terrible players, or the root of the problem, they're just not quite good enough to carry all the dead weight. If you don't have good depth, you need really high end players at the top, and ones that can be relied upon consistently, game to game.

If you trade and sign for crap. Then you don't draft well enough to make up for it. Or vice versa. That's when you end up with a perpetually bad team going nowhere.

Just like how their core isn't quite good enough to carry all the dead weight, the organizations good decisions haven't been good enough to make up for all their bad ones.

 

[ABasin]

Ahhh that new thread smell.

Hench: the new thread is not a Sticky.


Bestboy: please don't disparage people. Disagree with their points all day long, debate hard, but don't insult them personally. If you can't manage that, then please put me on ignore right here and now so I don't have to deal with you. Thanks.


The whole Boedker/Wood thing: I was disgusted with the move at the time, and my disgust was on target. The reason it keeps getting brought up perhaps, is that the same guy(s) is/are running the show, and we as fans really don't know if they get it yet. I get that some people believe it's beating a dead horse, but how do we really know there's not another one right around the corner?

 

[UncleRisto]

Hench: the new thread is not a Sticky.

The old one has a Rumor prefix too, mods just sticky it then.

To Mystic MacK's list, wow, I know they don't have a lot of pull right now but boy have they done badly in a lot of player personnel decisions. Comeau's decent. Wiercioch I don't mind. Mitchell has always kinda frustrated folks but he's okay. Rest of the way it's just garbage for A LOT of years. No wonder they're still last place.

 

[ABasin]

The old one has a Rumor prefix too, mods just sticky it then.

Ah, OK.

To Mystic MacK's list, wow, I know it's not a great they don't have a lot of pull right now but boy have they done badly in a lot of player personnel decisions. Comeau's decent. Wiercioch I don't mind. Mitchell has always kinda frustrated folks but he's okay. Rest of the way it's just garbage for A LOT of years. No wonder they're still last place.

Yeah, we could put the European free agents onto MacK's list also - Everberg, Rendulic, etc. A revolving door of mediocrity.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Hench: the new thread is not a Sticky.


Bestboy: please don't disparage people. Disagree with their points all day long, debate hard, but don't insult them personally. If you can't manage that, then please put me on ignore right here and now so I don't have to deal with you. Thanks.


The whole Boedker/Wood thing: I was disgusted with the move at the time, and my disgust was on target. The reason it keeps getting brought up perhaps, is that the same guy(s) is/are running the show, and we as fans really don't know if they get it yet. I get that some people believe it's beating a dead horse, but how do we really know there's not another one right around the corner?

Guess what, the move happened and it's over. I applaud the office for trading away prospects for a chance to get in the playoffs last year. I disagree with your points, and I am over the beating of the dead horse. It's the same all the time. Stastny, O'Reilly, Barrie, Boedker...Blah blah blah. How would you fix the team?

 

[Drij]

Dreger says it may be time to make a move. There's been speculation for a year that Sakic may move a core player. Before the draft there were talks with at least one western conference team about Landeskog (Anaheim I assume since Dreger brought this up before)

Dreger says Sakic is the architect of this roster and needs to take some responsibility for the state this team is in right now.

yup blames Sakicrap.

 

[henchman21]

Hench: the new thread is not a Sticky.

You don't want me to have sticky power.

 

[xbestboybandever]

I think it somewhat embodies other moves but only in the sense that they're willing to move prospects or picks occasionally, and IMO that in and of itself is not really indicative of how they ended up where they are.

Them moving a few mid tier prospect or mid picks can be a problem but mostly when the player's they bring in don't help them. That's what really makes it a problem, and that's where the focus should be IMO. If more of the players that they brought in and kept helped them the way someone like Matthias for example did in his short time, they might have a decent team.

This to me is the root of the problem. Their inability to identify players that can help them. This includes their long line of crap defenseman, and poor depth players.

2013

UFA's - Benoit, Guenin, and Holden.
Waivers - Cliche
Trades - Berra
Extensions - Mitchell for 3 years

2014

UFA - Iginla, Redmond,
Trades - Brad Stuart, Jordan Caron
Extensions - Holden for three years. Stuart for 2 years before the season started.

2015

UFA - Comeau
Waivers - Wagner, Bodnarchuk
Trades - Gormley, Freddie Hamilton, Gelinas

2016

UFA - Wiercioch, Tyutin, Colborne


Add all this to prospects like Olver, Cumiskey, Heard, Hensick, Sgarbossa, Malone, Stollery, Elliott, Carey, and Hishon, that they tried to build with that just didn't work.

Plus trades to fill out their team for players that maybe weren't poor trade value, but included guys that just weren't that good like Talbot, Briere, Sarich, Tanguay, and now unfortunately Grigorenko.

Then we see how the problem just keeps compounding itself. Just bad all around, and rooted in an inability to identify good players.

You could probably add Beauchemin to that list of bad signings given how far his game has fallen off, even though I think he might have been the Avs best D last year.

If you go back to the previous regime you see similar moves. SOB, ROB, PAP, Palushaj, Mitchell, Zanon, Kobasew, Porter extensions to guys like Jones, Wilson, Arnason.

These are all players they thought they could build teams with, and they're all mediocre at best players. When you build a team with mediocre players and then just stop adding, thinking you can get by with them, you get a mediocre team.

They made the problem worse by drafting too may one dimensional players that didn't pan out instead of decent depth players. Plus trading away a couple 1st round picks in the last decade, and missing on a couple others, and that makes the problem even worse.

What you have with all those decisions combined, and all those guys on a team, is a perpetual group that needs some really high end players to carry the team.

Now we see why the core is in question. It's not that they're terrible players, or the root of the problem, they're just not quite good enough to carry all the dead weight. If you don't have good depth, you need really high end players at the top, and ones that can be relied upon consistently, game to game.

If you trade and sign for crap. Then you don't draft well enough to make up for it. Or vice versa. That's when you end up with a perpetually bad team going nowhere.

Just like how their core isn't quite good enough to carry all the dead weight, the organizations good decisions haven't been good enough to make up for all their bad ones.

And yet, in 2013 we won the division.

In 2014, we barely missed the playoffs.

In 2015, we barely missed the playoffs.

In 14 and 15, the wheels fell off at the end of the season.

This is the first year since Sakic took over that we have looked really bad. Like Sacco bad. So those depth players you mentioned, while not great, were not some huge hinderance either. I mean, look at Nick Holden in New York. Now look at Tyson Barrie.... Are we really sure that it was Holden that was holding Barrie back? And to say we can't identify "good" players, it's hypocritical. Everyone talks about Rantanen, Jost, Greer, Meloche, Bigras, Zadorov, Compher, ROR, Morrison, and yet we can't identify talent? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Avsblitzkrieg]

This team will make the playoffs when they have acquired the right pieces... If it's me. I'm trying to get as many pieces to the puzzle I can. I'm not selling my future. With rentals. Even if they had made the playoffs. The front office knew they didn't have the fire power. I think I read somewhere the frei thinks everything is wrong... By and large I aggree

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

AJ said on the BSN podcast that Montreal was in talks with the Avs about Beauchemin, and that we should expect a youth mouvement in mid to late January

 

[Avsblitzkrieg]

[NHL2][/NHL2]

AJ said on the BSN podcast that Montreal was in talks with the Avs about Beauchemin, and ppthat we should expect a youth mouvement in mid to late January

wouldn't that go against what salic said about patience and letting the kids stew in the minors. Honest question.

 

[AslanRH]

While I think the statement regarding TV was completely out of line and inaccurate, it would be nice if everyone was equally held accountable for being disparaging to others and their opinions. Perhaps then we'd have more posters willing to share and debate rather than just the same select group hashing through the same stuff.

I think the Avs will have acquired a new "core player" by game 40.

 

[Avs71]

AJ said on the BSN podcast that Montreal was in talks with the Avs about Beauchemin, and that we should expect a youth mouvement in mid to late January

Please get this done, Joe.

 

[tigervixxxen]

[NHL2][/NHL2]wouldn't that go against what salic said about patience and letting the kids stew in the minors. Honest question.

As long as they wait until after I return from San Antonio but seriously it's a happy medium between development and turning the page. NHL experience will be good for next year and if they do it as a group it's going to be pretty developmentally focused as it is.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Landy would be beastly on Anaheim.

 

[agentblack]

Dreger says it may be time to make a move. There's been speculation for a year that Sakic may move a core player. Before the draft there were talks with at least one western conference team about Landeskog (Anaheim I assume since Dreger brought this up before)

Dreger says Sakic is the architect of this roster and needs to take some responsibility for the state this team is in right now.

Pfft i hate when analysts say stuff like that. Like you just want them to do
something just because. Like even though we are ...Horrible..we arent doing
anything unless its a huge deal.

 

[Alex Jones]

Landy would be beastly on Anaheim.

He would fit them really well. Would be a sweet asset for the Dux.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

AJ said on the BSN podcast that Montreal was in talks with the Avs about Beauchemin, and that we should expect a youth mouvement in mid to late January

Please lord, I dont talk to you much but hear me out this one time, and make this happen.


I'm excited for late January now. If we could move Iginla, Bourque, Beauchemin, Tyutin, and Mitchell that would be fantastic. Get a 3rd(Iginla) 2nd(Bourque) 3rd(Beauch), 5th(Tyutin) and 7th(Mitchell) for next years draft. Call up Compher, Greer, Bigras, Siemens, and whoever.


Would finally be a point to watching this team play the last 1/3 of the season.