Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XVII| Are We Sellers?

[UncleRisto]

Question is would it be worth using our first on that

Answer is, no.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

This year's stats are bad... previous years are not bad. Not great either, but he's not a top end player either. Brind'amour decided he didn't want Rask early and Rask has been in the dog house all season... best to judge him on his previous seasons compared to this one.

The risk is all on Minnesota. Nino will put up a somewhat similar performance but the Wild are hoping and praying that Rask gets his act together. Not a fan of making risky moves when the potential gain is minimal at best.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Muzzin is supposedly being shopped for a first and a prospect, another year left at 4 mil and imo would be an amazing add for this team. Question is would it be worth using our first on that or targeting a forward of similar appeal, which may be smarter due to where our d prospects are trending. On the other other hand d-pairs of:

Zadorov-Barrie
Cole-Johnson
Girard-Muzzin

Look pretty solid to me

Wonder would they go for Jost + 1st + Grubauer for Quick + Muzzin.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm of the opinion that if we can see how bad Jost is, and how little upside there is, then other NHL GM's aren't going to want him as part of a larger package deal.

GM's don't define hockey players at 20 the way HF does. That's why they're working for NHL teams not posting on HF.

This was a good move for Jost though, he needs a mental reset. He didn't look like he was crawling his way out of it.

 

[S E P H]

This year's stats are bad... previous years are not bad. Not great either, but he's not a top end player either. Brind'amour decided he didn't want Rask early and Rask has been in the dog house all season... best to judge him on his previous seasons compared to this one.

Rask was also injured for like the first three weeks or so of the season as well. He's obviously doing bad because of the coaching change and not because he's a bad player. I would take both on the Avs, but I think I would prefer Nino if I were to choose between the two. That doesn't mean Rask is a bad player though, people are just stat whacking if they think this is pure domination by the Hurricanes.

 

[Perratrooper]

Gotta factor Makar In for next season. So someone would have to go.

Definitely, but I also think if Makar earns a job over that core we would definitely have the confidence to trade him, I honestly don't mind the idea of him playing in the A for a year if he's not quite ready.

 

[Foppa2118]

But goals aren't only prevented by throwing guys around in the crease. Taking away space with their skating & stick control can do a lot to limit scoring chances against, force more turnovers, and sway the possession battle; even if we ignore what happens with the puck. You're going to get scored on eventually, so I don't see why giving up a goal because someone got outmuscled in front of goal is any more damaging than giving up a goal because our blueliners couldn't skate with the opposition in transition.

You're oversimplifying what it takes to play the role EJ does though.

There's a reason why so few defenseman can play at the level required of that role every year. There's a reason why Zadorov has all the same physical attributes, but shouldn't be playing that role right now, or perhaps ever. There's a reason why Cole could only do it at a high level for a couple months.

It's nowhere near as easy as just throwing guys around in the crease. If that were the case, Chris McAllister would have been a HOFer. The role requires something that neither McAllister or someone like Barrie (for all his elite attributes with the puck) has.

It involves great defensive instincts, a great stick (helped by a long reach), a real competitive nature, years of experience playing that role in the NHL, the skill to not handle the puck like a grenade and make breakout passes, plus the physicality of boxing guys out around the net, and knocking them off the puck in the corners and the half wall.

 

[CobraAcesS]

So no Avs trade yet? Wtf?


Also f*** them for sending Graves down. That is voluntarily not playing the better player, and I don't care how little a defender plays it f***ing matters.

Holy shit they actually sent Jost down, BUT WHO THE f*** IS PLAYING IN THAT SPOT?

 

[UncleRisto]

So no Avs trade yet? Wtf?

Now that the Rask-Niederreitter trade is out of the way, for whatever reason, we'll acquire Micheal Ferland, I have to assume.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Now that the Rask-Niederreitter trade is out of the way, for whatever reason, we'll acquire Micheal Ferland, I have to assume.

I edited that, but I'm also kind of surprised they sent Jost down without someone incoming. We're already thin as f***.

Maybe this is them thinking the season is f***ed, so better to send Jost down lol. I just can't believe they actually did it.

 

[henchman21]

Also **** them for sending Graves down. That is voluntarily not playing the better player, and I don't care how little a defender plays it ****ing matters.

This avoids waivers.

I think the Avs will make a roster move tonight or tomorrow. Hoping it is calling up Frank...

 

[Pokecheque]

I edited that, but I'm also kind of surprised they sent Jost down without someone incoming. We're already thin as ****.

Maybe this is them thinking the season is ****ed, so better to send Jost down lol. I just can't believe they actually did it.

They play the next five games at home, and because the All-Star break is nestled in there they don't go on the road again until February 7th. So that's basically a three-week period where they technically don't need any extra forwards. There isn't a more ideal time to send him down than now I guess.

Still pretty irritated that they didn't make at least a minor trade to shore up depth up the middle and are basically hanging Sheldon Dries out to...um...anyway, I guess they're just gonna "stay the course" on this no matter what. Not happy at all with coaching and management right now. This is looking like indecision rather than patience.

 

[Avs44]

Happy Jost went down...probably happened too late (should have been straight to the AHL rather than the NHL in the first place), but it's by far the best thing for him. Hopefully they had a talk with him first about why he's being sent down and what they are specifically looking for from him. I hope he's down there the rest of the season, regardless of how he performs. The next time he has a shot at stepping on NHL ice should be next October, when at minimum one quality top six forward has been added so he wouldn't be expected to carry a line again.

Regarding the Muzzin suggestion...the Avs need a top pairing D, but I don't think that's the right fit. Muzzin doesn't play a mistake-free game, as good as he is. I think the Avs, if they add someone, need a prime version of Anton Stralman. That, and Muzzin will be 30 in February with just 1.5 seasons left on his contract before he needs a new one. If trading with the Kings just go after Quick.

 

[cgf]

You're oversimplifying what it takes to play the role EJ does though.

There's a reason why so few defenseman can play at the level required of that role every year. There's a reason why Zadorov has all the same physical attributes, but shouldn't be playing that role right now, or perhaps ever. There's a reason why Cole could only do it at a high level for a couple months.

It's nowhere near as easy as just throwing guys around in the crease. If that were the case, Chris McAllister would have been a HOFer. The role requires something that neither McAllister or someone like Barrie (for all his elite attributes with the puck) has.

It involves great defensive instincts, a great stick (helped by a long reach), a real competitive nature, years of experience playing that role in the NHL, the skill to not handle the puck like a grenade and make breakout passes, plus the physicality of boxing guys out around the net, and knocking them off the puck in the corners and the half wall.

I wasn't comparing them to EJ, I was addressing the gripes about their limitations.

 

[CobraAcesS]

This avoids waivers.

I think the Avs will make a roster move tonight or tomorrow. Hoping it is calling up Frank...

Don't tease me like that, f***

 

[CobraAcesS]

They play the next five games at home, and because the All-Star break is nestled in there they don't go on the road again until February 7th. So that's basically a three-week period where they technically don't need any extra forwards. There isn't a more ideal time to send him down than now I guess.

Still pretty irritated that they didn't make at least a minor trade to shore up depth up the middle and are basically hanging Sheldon Dries out to...um...anyway, I guess they're just gonna "stay the course" on this no matter what. Not happy at all with coaching and management right now. This is looking like indecision rather than patience.

Even as much sense as that makes, somehow Jost being sent down and nothing incoming from outside the organization or even a Greer call up just does not make any f***ing sense to me lol. Also again, f***ity f*** f***ers sent Graves down. f***

 

[dahrougem2]

GM's don't define hockey players at 20 the way HF does. That's why they're working for NHL teams not posting on HF.

This was a good move for Jost though, he needs a mental reset. He didn't look like he was crawling his way out of it.

Yeah, because every GM in the NHL knows what they're doing.

Just because they have NHL positions and posters on HF don't does not mean they're more credible in their player observations/evaluations.

 

[Avs_19]

If Nemeth is healthy then it makes sense for Graves to go. He's not playing over a healthy Nemeth and you already have Barberio as the 7th D. Playing Barberio over Graves is questionable based on recent play though.

 

[CobraAcesS]

If Nemeth is healthy then it makes sense for Graves to go. He's not playing over a healthy Nemeth and you already have Barberio as the 7th D. Playing Barberio over Graves is questionable based on recent play though.

Uh.. Graves was better than Nemeth while they were both playing. I mean it was blatantly obvious, especially considering you were seeing them side by side.

 

[Foppa2118]

I wasn't comparing them to EJ, I was addressing the gripes about their limitations.

I know, I think I was more the one comparing them to EJ in the sense that they don't have someone that can replace him.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So we have a 21 man roster? Eagles are playing at home tomorrow night. My guess is that one or maybe two players will be driving to Denver immediately following the game. I’d love for Meloche to be one of them.

 

[CobraAcesS]

So we have a 21 man roster? Eagles are playing at home tomorrow night. My guess is that one or maybe two players will be driving to Denver immediately following the game. I’d love for Meloche to be one of them.

How insane would it be if they called up Frank, Greer, and Meloche? I think we'd have to make a shrine to @Pokecheque for harassing Bednar on twitter.

I have a bold prediction...

The Avs send Jost down because reasons, and then they call up Kaut because no they haven't learned shit and want us all to know it with 100% certainty.

 

[Avs_19]

Uh.. Graves was better than Nemeth while they were both playing. I mean it was blatantly obvious, especially considering you were seeing them side by side.

Nemeth kills penalties and they clearly like him in that role based on him being behind only Cole and EJ in SH ice time. I'm not even arguing who was playing better when they were both in the lineup. We all know Graves isn't playing with the other two healthy.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Nemeth kills penalties and they clearly like him in that role based on him being behind only Cole and EJ in SH ice time. I'm not even arguing who was playing better when they were both in the lineup. We all know Graves isn't playing with the other two healthy.

Any post remotely justifying this action is not ok though. Just saying

 

[Bender]

He needs to be better I guess. But anybody who suggests anything other than Goaltending as the #1 issue right now is out of touch with what's happening in every game.

Hmm well the goaltending held up in the 1st period last night. The team chose to start playing once they were down by 3 goals. That's not on the goaltending. When Ian Cole inexplicably decides that he's going to take the man that Erik Johnson is ALREADY COVERING...leaving the senators with an easy tic-tac-toe play, that's not on goaltending. That's on Ian Cole and his atrocious game right now.

When in the last MONTH have we been UP by 3 goals and the goaltending lets in a bunch of bad goals in to allow the other team back in it?? Rarely.

This team isn't starting on time for whatever reason and sure the goalies could certainly stand to be better but making sure our guys are ready to start the game is on the coach.

GM's don't define hockey players at 20 the way HF does. That's why they're working for NHL teams not posting on HF.

This was a good move for Jost though, he needs a mental reset. He didn't look like he was crawling his way out of it.

Agreed. I'm a little perplexed at what people were expecting though for a 20 year old. I mean, it's certainly not like they ever put him on a line with MacKinnon and Rantanen to see how he's NOT producing. There wasn't an opportunity there and that's fine but it seems like with the majority of Avs fans, HE'S the major scapegoat even though it's well accepted that the Avs have a massive lack of secondary scoring.

For me, if you're going to evaluate a 20 year old kid but you're doing it expecting him to make Colin Wilson a better player...you're going to be disappointed. If Jost was playing on a line with Anze Kopitar and Mark Stone and he wasn't able to produce like an up-and-coming Top-6 forward THEN I'd say fine...we've probably got a major issue but he was never truly given great linemates that are vets to bring him along. The best he's had with the Avs were 2nd year, 23 year old players like Kerfoot and Compher and a good portion of Avs fans debate whether those guys are legit 2nd liners to begin with but somehow it's fair to dump on Jost at age 20 for not being one? I guess I just don't get it.

I hope he welcomes this AHL time and uses it to prove a lot of people wrong.