Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XVII| Are We Sellers?

[OwenNolan]

I could. But this conversation has been recycled so many times I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole. Plus the Barrie thing is your shtick, so.

Well I dont want him on this team. We have Girard and Makar. And they dont get embarrased in their own end.

 

[OwenNolan]

Barrie
Jost
Barberio
Dries
Andrighetto

All need to be off this team if we want to compete.

Calvert and Nieto need to get no more than 10 minutes a night on the 4th line.
We have so many holes on this team it's not funny.

1st- Mack line
2nd- None
3rd- Soderberg- Kerfoot- Compher
4th- Nieto- Calvert- Wilson

Zadorov - EJ
Cole - Girard

So we need a whole 2nd line and at least 2 more Dmen.

 

[CB Joe]

I just want a younger version of Cole.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Well I dont want him on this team. We have Girard and Makar. And they dont get embarrased in their own end.

Girard has definitely gotten embarrassed in his how end. By parayko and Draisaitl off the top of my head.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Sell!

Varlamov
Wilson
Nemeth

Can’t imagine anybody wants Andrighetto, Bourque, or Barberio(1 more year).

 

[cgf]

Defense is the problem. Specifically in a shutdown role, and mostly against the big forwards in the west like Wheeler, Scheifele, Johansen, Benn, Getzlaf, Thornton, Hertl, Pacioretty, Tkachuk, etc.

Zadorov and Cole can't replace EJ in that regard. I'm drawing a blank but who is DW?

But goals aren't only prevented by throwing guys around in the crease. Taking away space with their skating & stick control can do a lot to limit scoring chances against, force more turnovers, and sway the possession battle; even if we ignore what happens with the puck. You're going to get scored on eventually, so I don't see why giving up a goal because someone got outmuscled in front of goal is any more damaging than giving up a goal because our blueliners couldn't skate with the opposition in transition.

 

[cgf]

I just want a younger version of Cole.

Sounds like you could use some Meloche in your life.

 

[CobraAcesS]

But goals aren't only prevented by throwing guys around in the crease. Taking away space with their skating & stick control can do a lot to limit scoring chances against, force more turnovers, and sway the possession battle; even if we ignore what happens with the puck. You're going to get scored on eventually, so I don't see why giving up a goal because someone got outmuscled in front of goal is any more damaging than giving up a goal because our blueliners couldn't skate with the opposition in transition.

I'm a little angry at Barrie for not helping us defend him tonight. He'd been much better defensively lately.

 

[hooverdam]

If we traded every defenseman that had a bad game around here, we would have no defensemen.

Also as far as I'm concerned no one said this but I did get a good laugh out of "Girard and Makar don't get embarrassed". Watch Makar get pantsed in his NHL debut now.

 

[CobraAcesS]

If we traded every defenseman that had a bad game around here, we would have no defensemen.

Also as far as I'm concerned no one said this but I did get a good laugh out of "Girard and Makar don't get embarrassed". Watch Makar get pantsed in his NHL debut now.

I think it is kind of interesting that there is a few people trying to start the Girard hate train. I'm down for the critique and stuff, but the f***er is like barely not a teenager, and was probably our best D to start the year. I just don't see a lot of upside in complaining about his mistakes when hes been not horrible for half the year while playing in a role he should be well in over his head.

I guess his mistakes here and there don't really bother me. I'm getting more frustrated with his lack of shot mentality lately, but swings in play are normal for young D. I think Girard actually gives a shit if he plays well defensively. Which is something I don't believe when it comes to Barrie. Barrie has openly commented about taking risks and being a PMD. Which is fine, but I don't enjoy a nonchalant attitude from anyone about anything personally.

I think Girard has taken his foot off the gas lately in the offensive zone because any mistake seems to f*** the team.

 

[hooverdam]

I think it is kind of interesting that there is a few people trying to start the Girard hate train. I'm down for the critique and stuff, but the ****er is like barely not a teenager, and was probably our best D to start the year. I just don't see a lot of upside in complaining about his mistakes when hes been not horrible for half the year while playing in a role he should be well in over his head.

I guess his mistakes here and there don't really bother me. I'm getting more frustrated with his lack of shot mentality lately, but swings in play are normal for young D. I think Girard actually gives a **** if he plays well defensively. Which is something I don't believe when it comes to Barrie. Barrie has openly commented about taking risks and being a PMD. Which is fine, but I don't enjoy a nonchalant attitude from anyone about anything personally.

I think Girard has taken his foot off the gas lately in the offensive zone because any mistake seems to **** the team.

I try not to harp on Girard's mistakes, and if I do bring them up then it's always with "He's young and still learning, he'll likely get better than this." I will always give young players tons and tons of rope because I got into hockey by watching a development league before I ever gave a crap about the NHL. Hell, I still believe in Jost.

That being said, I bring up Girard's mistakes usually to point out that the notion that Girard and/or Makar are absolutely capable of replacing what Barrie brings is just incorrect. For all of Barrie's mistakes (and I'm not going to speak to his attitude beyond pointing out that forcing offensive defensemen to change their game so that they're better at defense at the expense of offense never ever works), he brings positives that Girard simply can't touch right now.

Girard is going to make mistakes. Makar is going to make mistakes. Barrie makes mistakes all the time. With offensive defensemen, what you hope is that the good outweighs the bad, and there's no question that's true for Barrie no matter what some other posters say. Right now for Girard, the good is more potential than anything else.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I try not to harp on Girard's mistakes, and if I do bring them up then it's always with "He's young and still learning, he'll likely get better than this." I will always give young players tons and tons of rope because I got into hockey by watching a development league before I ever gave a crap about the NHL. Hell, I still believe in Jost.

That being said, I bring up Girard's mistakes usually to point out that the notion that Girard and/or Makar are absolutely capable of replacing what Barrie brings is just incorrect. For all of Barrie's mistakes (and I'm not going to speak to his attitude beyond pointing out that forcing offensive defensemen to change their game so that they're better at defense at the expense of offense never ever works), he brings positives that Girard simply can't touch right now.

Girard is going to make mistakes. Makar is going to make mistakes. Barrie makes mistakes all the time. With offensive defensemen, what you hope is that the good outweighs the bad, and there's no question that's true for Barrie no matter what some other posters say. Right now for Girard, the good is more potential than anything else.

I'd say Girard has been more zeros than negative myself. Kind of like Jost at the start where he was creating nothing but not really allowing a lot either. In a much different way of course as G still is risk/reward, but G still keeps the puck moving out of our end and in the right direction a lot. He also has plenty of shifts where he skates it out because the team can't seem to break out either.

 

[hooverdam]

I'd say Girard has been more zeros than negative myself. Kind of like Jost at the start where he was creating nothing but not really allowing a lot either. In a much different way of course as G still is risk/reward, but G still keeps the puck moving out of our end and in the right direction a lot. He also has plenty of shifts where he skates it out because the team can't seem to break out either.

His decision-making under heavy pressure/forechecking has been an issue this year, and I think it's gotten him in trouble at times. That's largely a confidence thing, though; he was rolling at the beginning of the year and you could tell he was feeling it mentally and physically. A few rough patches and it's been hard to recover that mental game completely.

With more experience, Girard's going to be able to recover his mental game easier and play the game we know he's capable of. But he's not totally there yet, and it's fine to point that out. I'm confident in his progression, I'm just not ready call it a full certainty and bank the future of the defense on it.

 

[CobraAcesS]

His decision-making under heavy pressure/forechecking has been an issue this year, and I think it's gotten him in trouble at times. That's largely a confidence thing, though; he was rolling at the beginning of the year and you could tell he was feeling it mentally and physically. A few rough patches and it's been hard to recover that mental game completely.

With more experience, Girard's going to be able to recover his mental game easier and play the game we know he's capable of. But he's not totally there yet, and it's fine to point that out. I'm confident in his progression, I'm just not ready call it a full certainty and bank the future of the defense on it.

To be honest I'm kind of surprised the kid if still on the ice right now. Hes good at avoiding hits in general, but hes taken some nasty shit this year too. I just don't see a lot that pisses me off, and more things that I can easily relate to experience or lack of an outlet based on the way the team is playing. EJ has put him in some tough spots this year too.

 

[hooverdam]

To be honest I'm kind of surprised the kid if still on the ice right now. Hes good at avoiding hits in general, but hes taken some nasty **** this year too. I just don't see a lot that pisses me off, and more things that I can easily relate to experience or lack of an outlet based on the way the team is playing. EJ has put him in some tough spots this year too.

See, EJ is the one whose mistakes I have no patience for. I love him as a personality and a leader and when his game is on, he plays a huge role. His problem is that if he's not bringing good shutdown defense, he's not bringing much of anything else and is dragging down his partner. I want him to outrun Father Time and he's been better of late, but he's another huge question mark for the defense going forward and we should not be reliant on him playing up to his potential anymore.

 

[CobraAcesS]

See, EJ is the one whose mistakes I have no patience for. I love him as a personality and a leader and when his game is on, he plays a huge role. His problem is that if he's not bringing good shutdown defense, he's not bringing much of anything else and is dragging down his partner. I want him to outrun Father Time and he's been better of late, but he's another huge question mark for the defense going forward and we should not be reliant on him playing up to his potential anymore.

I personally think we now know the answer to if EJ is an OFD, or a DFD. For whatever reason when EJ has to be the reliable one on his pairing with an OFD it does not work for him mentally. Lately EJ has been back in an offensive mind set, and hes looked great. I was hoping that he'd adjust over time, but the adjustment was him taking a different mindset instead of him learning to play a steady game while not having the puck as much. Which does not really work well for the future because he'll have to transition as he moves into his thirties.

We all know the flaws with EJ as an OFD too, he just isn't great in the offensive zone. The guy has no idea what to do with the puck offensively and for someone with his strength kind of has a muffin for a wrister.

I love EJ, but as difficult as it is for me, I no longer think he should retire an Av. Which really is tough because hes the one time the Avs acquired my favorite player not playing for Colorado.

 

[hooverdam]

I personally think we now know the answer to if EJ is an OFD, or a DFD. For whatever reason when EJ has to be the reliable one on his pairing with an OFD it does not work for him mentally. Lately EJ has been back in an offensive mind set, and hes looked great. I was hoping that he'd adjust over time, but the adjustment was him taking a different mindset instead of him learning to play a steady game while not having the puck as much. Which does not really work well for the future because he'll have to transition as he moves into his thirties.

We all know the flaws with EJ as an OFD too, he just isn't great in the offensive zone. The guy has no idea what to do with the puck offensively and for someone with his strength kind of has a muffin for a wrister.

I love EJ, but as difficult as it is for me, I no longer think he should retire an Av. Which really is tough because hes the one time the Avs acquired my favorite player not playing for Colorado.

Right, if he needs to be an OFD to be successful he's kind of SOL because I don't think he has the legs for it anymore, either.

I really do love EJ too. He's such a good Av. My hope is that he can transition to a third pairing role over time and still contribute somewhat while sheltering some of his flaws, but for that to happen we'll need others to step up and replace his minutes. And we'll absolutely have to keep Barrie in that scenario.

 

[Avs44]

I think it is kind of interesting that there is a few people trying to start the Girard hate train. I'm down for the critique and stuff, but the ****er is like barely not a teenager, and was probably our best D to start the year. I just don't see a lot of upside in complaining about his mistakes when hes been not horrible for half the year while playing in a role he should be well in over his head.

Not speaking for anyone else, but when I do point out his flaws it isn't because I want to "hate" on him or dislike him -- I don't, and I fully agree with what you said about his age. I've pointed that out myself. When I do criticize Girard it's often in response to people around here who ridiculously overrate where he is at right now and make fantastical suggestions based on their overstatement of what he's currently capable of. In other words the sorts of people who think the defense could casually afford to lose Barrie and it'd be all good because the defense group is supposedly a source of strength, somehow, to some people, and Girard is apparently capable of filling right into Barrie's top four minutes and playing a key role in replacing him in their updated projected D groupings.

 

[Avs44]

Anyways, when is the last time Sakic had did a public interview? A press conference? I actually can't recall. He's gone into complete hiding again. Wonder if that's the big plan for the remainder of the year and to just let things play out once again so he can get to the draft. Or introduce Makar near the end of the season sort of like he did with Jost.

 

[hooverdam]

Anyways, when is the last time Sakic had did a public interview? A press conference? I actually can't recall. He's gone into complete hiding again. Wonder if that's the big plan for the remainder of the year and to just let things play out once again so he can get to the draft. Or introduce Makar near the end of the season sort of like he did with Jost.

I'll admit to being frustrated with him. It's not right to just let the team twist like this. That aspect of it reminds me way too much of 16-17.

I don't think this team is that bad. I'm pretty optimistic they make the playoffs, even. But we don't have to sacrifice too much of the future to make the present a bit easier to watch. It's just not fair to guys like MacKinnon and Rantanen to just punt and preach patience again. They have to both be sick of that by now.

 

[Foppberg]

 

[Balthazar]

Sakic doesn't have to give a press conference because there's no media out there to pressure him into giving one.

 

[Pokecheque]

Well I dont want him on this team. We have Girard and Makar. And they dont get embarrased in their own end.

Nice when you can completely ignore facts to hold up some whacked-out narrative.

 

[Pokecheque]

In hindsight, the Avs probably shouldn't have gotten a 2nd line center, but they absolutely should have gotten a 3rd line center to stabilize the lineup and boot Soda up to be 2nd line center the whole damned year. Again, I can see why they didn't, but they probably should have.

On the other hand, Columbus went out and got one of the most highly-regarded defensive pivots in Riley Nash this offseason and he's more or less been a disaster.

 

[Ivan13]

Stop with the comparison between Girard and Barrie , at the same age Barrie play in AHL. I 'm sure Girard had more talent and IQ.

Development is liner!