Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XIII| Trade Everyone!

[Avs71]

There is 0 reason to trade Barrie. It is as simple as that. He is a fantastic offensive defenceman, and has another whole year on his contract after this one.

Why this is being beaten to death everyday is just mind blowing. There is no need to choose between him and EJ, or Makar and Barrie. The Avs can have them all for the foreseeable future.

Just keep the damn good players for once.

 

[MarkT]

There is 0 reason to trade Barrie.

Except possibly:
- His contract demands might be too high for a player of his overall value to the team.
- There's this thing called the salary cap, which means if you have a good team you eventually have to let good players go, and it's often best to trade them before they walk in free agency.
- There may come a point in the not-too distant future where other players deserve his minutes more than he does, at which point his value to the team will go way down, but his salary cap hit will not.
- He may actually hurt the team (with his poor defensive play) more than he helps the team (with his offensive ability).
- He doesn't help the team consistently enough to be a key player in the playoffs.
- We may need a player (or players) we get in a trade for Barrie more than we need Barrie.
- Probably a few other potential reasons I'm missing.

I'm not actually making all those arguments but there's certainly not zero. It's fine to not want him traded (especially right now - I don't want him traded right now either), but don't pretend like there's no argument to be had.

 

[Foppberg]

Except possibly:
- His contract demands might be too high for a player of his overall value to the team.
- There's this thing called the salary cap, which means if you have a good team you eventually have to let good players go, and it's often best to trade them before they walk in free agency.
- There may come a point in the not-too distant future where other players deserve his minutes more than he does, at which point his value to the team will go way down, but his salary cap hit will not.
- He may actually hurt the team (with his poor defensive play) more than he helps the team (with his offensive ability).
- He doesn't help the team consistently enough to be a key player in the playoffs.
- We may need a player (or players) we get in a trade for Barrie more than we need Barrie.
- Probably a few other potential reasons I'm missing.

I'm not actually making all those arguments but there's certainly not zero. It's fine to not want him traded (especially right now - I don't want him traded right now either), but don't pretend like there's no argument to be had.

I get what you're saying, but until those mays or eventuallys turn into more immediate problems, then we keep him.

 

[MarkT]

I get what you're saying, but until those mays or eventuallys turn into more immediate problems, then we keep him.

Yep, I agree. If we're going to trade him, the time to do it is:
a) when some of those reasons become real and immediate and;
b) next offseason when we have so many new contracts to hand out, Barrie is eligible for an extension with whoever acquires him, and there are basically no good free agent defensemen available beyond potentially Karlsson, which will help make Barrie's value as high as it will ever be in a trade.

Edit: I've just had a thought, and maybe this is sacrilegious as an Avs fan, but hear me out: maybe the best thing for all concerned is for Barrie to have a bad season this year. Have him drop down to the 3rd pairing at even strength and lose his powerplay time to Girard (and/or Timmins!). Then you sign him to an extension in the offseason at a much lower price than anyone expected, he remains an Avalanche for many years to come, his play goes back to normal, and everyone is happy!

 

[Joe Sakic]

Simply cannot get rid of Barrie. He is crucial to the success of this team.

I have a feeling we would only see how critical he truly is to our offense once gone.

 

[ABasin]

- He may actually hurt the team (with his poor defensive play) more than he helps the team (with his offensive ability).

I also am not terribly enamored with Barrie's defensive play. However, I think one thing that a lot of people are missing in this Barrie discussion, is that a successful hockey team needs a defensive corps that is good offensive and good defensively. However, that does not necessarily mean that every member of that defensive corps is good at both. Hence, pairings matter, personnel with different skill sets matter, etc. Pair Barrie with a solid defender, and the overall product on the ice is solid in both ways. A kind of strange analogy comes to mind: a well-balanced diet does not need to consist of 100% well balanced meals - how it all adds up at the end of the day is what matters.

But good hockey teams can't simply trade players who are very productive in one facet of the game, just because they lack production in another. Vlasic has averaged just 20something points per season over the course of his career, and is never going to be an elite offensive defenseman. I don't see the Sharks actively trying to dump his ass though. Pair him up with a partner who can put up points, and the team will do well.

I mean, if the Avs are going to trade every good offensive defenseman who isn't so great defensively, eventually the team isn't going to have any good offensive defensemen at all. Because if we had a player with Barrie's offensive skill - who is also very good defensively - we are describing a Drew Doughty-type player. And if there are a dozen hidden Doughty's out there, by all means, please let us all know who and where they are. Please let Joe Sakic know also.

Barrie is a very productive offensive player, and the Avs are fortunate to have a player like him on the ice.

 

[EdAVSfan]

One thing I can’t stand is being repeatedly told what I think or don’t think. Stop it!

Keep your points to yourselves and stop projecting what YOU think other people think.

It’s ridiculously annoying

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

There is 0 reason to trade Barrie. It is as simple as that. He is a fantastic offensive defenceman, and has another whole year on his contract after this one.

Why this is being beaten to death everyday is just mind blowing. There is no need to choose between him and EJ, or Makar and Barrie. The Avs can have them all for the foreseeable future.

Just keep the damn good players for once.

Probably because this is a hockey discussion board and this thread is primarily to discuss trade ideas? I dunno, maybe I'm in the wrong place.

I think people just need to accept some of us aren't enamored with Barrie so much that we'd keep him at all costs. But I still haven't seen anyone actively trying to sell him off for scraps either. It's just if we're trading someone with value, Barrie is probably that guy.

We had these discussions years ago with Duchy and ROR's contracts. We moved ROR for wanting too much money. Let's see what Barrie wants.

 

[Pokecheque]

You act like EJ is this old man , he's only 30 and 3 years older than Barrie. If you've played attention when EJ is out of the lineup the team struggles far more than when Barrie is .

There's still a pretty big difference between 30 and 27. One guy is generally regarded as a man in his prime, the other is likely in a decline. Not every player ages as well as Joe Sakic and Ray Bourque. Also, EJ has dealt with multiple injuries, and that's only going to get worse. You don't need to resort to exaggeration--I never said EJ was this "old man," I'm merely weighing the pros and cons of retaining these two players long-term. EJ brings significantly more risk than Barrie at this point.

FTR I never said they should sign Barrie without question either, there's quite a bit of risk there too, just that the discussion regarding his future can wait a year.

 

[agentblack]

Probably because this is a hockey discussion board and this thread is primarily to discuss trade ideas? I dunno, maybe I'm in the wrong place.

I think people just need to accept some of us aren't enamored with Barrie so much that we'd keep him at all costs. But I still haven't seen anyone actively trying to sell him off for scraps either. It's just if we're trading someone with value, Barrie is probably that guy.

We had these discussions years ago with Duchy and ROR's contracts. We moved ROR for wanting too much money. Let's see what Barrie wants.

Yeah I have to stop myself from getting all preachy about black hole conversations like Barrie , I mean that’s what this board is for , discussion. Even if I feel like people are volunteering to get stuck in a debating time loop, that’s their choice

 

[Avs71]

Then people should move to that official Barrie thread that was started in the summer. This rumours thread is pointless to look into if you have to go through 6 pages of people saying the same thing in 10,000 different words.

 

[UncleRisto]

I think they could trade Duchene and re-sign O'Reilly instead. Remember, Sakic signed an offersheet too. Plus, for Duchene we could maybe get someone like Derrick Pouliot to shore up the left side with Bigras and Siemens.

Hishon - O'Reilly - MacKinnon
Landeskog - Stastny - PAP

 

[Eltuna]

I’m not even a huge Nylander fan but there’s no doubt he would solve a lot of the secondary scoring issues. I wonder if Dubas would be interested in a package around Timmins (obviously with a decent add) if the Nylander situation worsens. He might have an exploitable bias due to his Greyhounds history and Timmins projects as the kind of dman the Leafs could really use. I’m sure the Leafs would rather a package around a much better dman but teams just aren’t going to trade already proven young top 4 guys, especially when the team they’re trading with is coming from a position of weakness like a contract holdout.

 

[Avs44]

I’m not even a huge Nylander fan but there’s no doubt he would solve a lot of the secondary scoring issues. I wonder if Dubas would be interested in a package around Timmins (obviously with a decent add) if the Nylander situation worsens. He might have an exploitable bias due to his Greyhounds history and Timmins projects as the kind of dman the Leafs could really use. I’m sure the Leafs would rather a package around a much better dman but teams just aren’t going to trade already proven young top 4 guys, especially when the team they’re trading with is coming from a position of weakness like a contract holdout.

Nope nope nope. Nylander would solve a lot scoring issues. But for the sake of Rantanen the Avs can't be the team to pay Nylander what he apparently wants. Dreger said it's still north of 8 million, and I haven't been able to find it myself but apparently Bob McKenzie said something similiar on the Leafs Lunch either yesterday or the day before. The only way the Leafs trade the guy is if he doesn't come down from that ask to something more reasonable, so if the Avs trade for the guy would you be willing to pay him ~8 million after two ~60 point seasons? If the Avs did that, and Rantanen is near PPG this season again, then I don't even want to imagine what his starting ask would be with the Nylander precedent hypothetically on the Avs. We'd probably be looking at Jack Eichel money at that point.

For the sake of the Avs and Rantanen I think the best hope is that the Leafs actually break Nylander's camp and get him signed to something reasonable around 6.5 million.

 

[Eltuna]

Nope nope nope. Nylander would solve a lot scoring issues. But for the sake of Rantanen the Avs can't be the team to pay Nylander what he apparently wants. Dreger said it's still north of 8 million, and I haven't been able to find it myself but apparently Bob McKenzie said something similiar on the Leafs Lunch either yesterday or the day before. The only way the Leafs trade the guy is if he doesn't come down from that ask to something more reasonable, so if the Avs trade for the guy would you be willing to pay him ~8 million after two ~60 point seasons? If the Avs did that, and Rantanen is near PPG this season again, then I don't even want to imagine what his starting ask would be with the Nylander precedent hypothetically on the Avs. We'd probably be looking at Jack Eichel money at that point.

For the sake of the Avs and Rantanen I think the best hope is that the Leafs actually break Nylander's camp and get him signed to something reasonable around 6.5 million.

I really can’t see him getting 8 million, the comparables just aren’t there. If you offered Nylander 7 I would have to imagine he takes it, and with the way contracts are going 7 would be a good number for what Nylander can bring. The likely scenario is that the Leafs just sign him as he really doesn’t have much of a case to expect more than 6.5-7 (whether he’s worth more or not is irrelevant as his bargaining power is pretty limited right now). If the situation worsens and becomes personal is probably the only way he gets dealt. If you’re correct and 8 is the hill he’s willing to die on then yea probably best to avoid him all together, but I personally doubt that’s the case.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

There is 0 reason to trade Barrie. It is as simple as that. He is a fantastic offensive defenceman, and has another whole year on his contract after this one.

Why this is being beaten to death everyday is just mind blowing. There is no need to choose between him and EJ, or Makar and Barrie. The Avs can have them all for the foreseeable future.

Just keep the damn good players for once.

It's hard to replace his offense. Actually, almost no one can. He is unbelievable offensive defenseman in his prime. You don't trade these guys unless you have to(Karlsson).. He is just so valuable. We would be lacking offense from defense if we would trade him. We need to remember that defenseman start the offense from the back end, not forwards (most of the time).

 

[agentblack]

I’m not even a huge Nylander fan but there’s no doubt he would solve a lot of the secondary scoring issues. I wonder if Dubas would be interested in a package around Timmins (obviously with a decent add) if the Nylander situation worsens. He might have an exploitable bias due to his Greyhounds history and Timmins projects as the kind of dman the Leafs could really use. I’m sure the Leafs would rather a package around a much better dman but teams just aren’t going to trade already proven young top 4 guys, especially when the team they’re trading with is coming from a position of weakness like a contract holdout.

Timmins doesnt really have any value right now...well thats not entirely true ...his value is kinda in holding pattern and even then that add would have to be one of the Avs firsts which is a no go from me and i like Nylander alot.

 

[Balthazar]

Sakic wouldn't want to pay Nylander that kind of money.

Toronto need EJ. Not happening but that's who they need the most.

 

[Byzantium]

Definitive ranking of NHL’s top 20 defencemen over three seasons - Sportsnet.ca

Barrie #19

 

[Balthazar]

Definitive ranking of NHL’s top 20 defencemen over three seasons - Sportsnet.ca

Barrie #19

They have Jeff Petry at #13 and Victor Hedman at #12.

Edit: and Giordano at #4 (!!!)....Fowler at #6...

Yeah...sure.

 

[CaleMakaw]

Definitive ranking of NHL’s top 20 defencemen over three seasons - Sportsnet.ca

Barrie #19

"Definitive"

 

[Makar to MacK]

I think that Barrie's lack of defence is way over blown. I think he is at the very least serviceable for the most part and is not nearly as bad as everyone makes him out to be. I am of the opinion that he is top tier offensive D-Man and middle of the pack D D-Man. Just my lowly opinion on the matter.

 

[Sea Eagles]

I was laughed at for claiming Barrie was an elite D-man. I bet if anyone asked an opposition player, they'd agree with me.

Barrie is an ideal quarterback. Having Girard then come in in the next shift. It's just ruthless.

Still say the only thing we need, is to get that 2nd line improved. Do that through the draft/free agency.

 

[MarkT]

I also am not terribly enamored with Barrie's defensive play. However, I think one thing that a lot of people are missing in this Barrie discussion, is that a successful hockey team needs a defensive corps that is good offensive and good defensively. However, that does not necessarily mean that every member of that defensive corps is good at both. Hence, pairings matter, personnel with different skill sets matter, etc. Pair Barrie with a solid defender, and the overall product on the ice is solid in both ways. A kind of strange analogy comes to mind: a well-balanced diet does not need to consist of 100% well balanced meals - how it all adds up at the end of the day is what matters.

But good hockey teams can't simply trade players who are very productive in one facet of the game, just because they lack production in another. Vlasic has averaged just 20something points per season over the course of his career, and is never going to be an elite offensive defenseman. I don't see the Sharks actively trying to dump his ass though. Pair him up with a partner who can put up points, and the team will do well.

I mean, if the Avs are going to trade every good offensive defenseman who isn't so great defensively, eventually the team isn't going to have any good offensive defensemen at all. Because if we had a player with Barrie's offensive skill - who is also very good defensively - we are describing a Drew Doughty-type player. And if there are a dozen hidden Doughty's out there, by all means, please let us all know who and where they are. Please let Joe Sakic know also.

Barrie is a very productive offensive player, and the Avs are fortunate to have a player like him on the ice.

Edit: Moved to the Tyson Barrie thread: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/all-encompassing-tyson-barrie-thread.2437753/page-11

 

[Joe Sakic]

I think that Barrie's lack of defence is way over blown. I think he is at the very least serviceable for the most part and is not nearly as bad as everyone makes him out to be. I am of the opinion that he is top tier offensive D-Man and middle of the pack D D-Man. Just my lowly opinion on the matter.

Agreed.

Barrie is elite offensively, and average defensively.