Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XIII| Trade Everyone!

[CB Joe]

If you asked non-biased fans I think most would rank Colorado's defense as average.

Personally I think the defense in probably in that 14-20 range.

 

[Piestany88]

Pittsburgh is iffy, but Winnipeg? Yeah they def are.

Not for me I think we are better 6 deep

 

[lonelybadger]

Counting the days until point becomes an RFA

 

[cgf]

So our young depth has failed us. Do they still have potential or do we need to buy a second line? It's not like we don't have the assets.

We just need a star to anchor that 2nd line. If Jost was on some stud’s wing I think the conversation would be very different, whether the third guy was Wilson, Kerfoot, Kaut or Kakko.

 

[shadow1]

This is the reason why I wanted the Avs to keep Comeau. He had a good two way game and had chemistry with Soderberg

Agreed. The Avs had something good going with that line last year, and Comeau is a ~35 point guy.

I like Calvert, but he’s an energy player, which is why he doesn’t look good net to Soderberg (imo), but has looked great next to Compher. There was room to keep Comeau and sign Calvert.

 

[cgf]

Remember when MacKinnon was a -14, 50 point center? Imagine if we had traded him because we had Jost coming in and he looked promising.

This post went in a very different direction than I was expecting after that first sentence, with respect to Jost.

 

[Foppa2118]

They have JT and the hope is that Kam, Kaut, & Jost can develop into those rolls. That along with 2 1st rounders this year in a strong draft up front. The Avs have plenty of middle/bottom 6 guys, the main issue is they don't have any true 2nd liners atm. If a guy isn't clearly a high end scorer/top 6 player then its just adding clutter without solving the real issue and taking away ice time from kids who could develop into those rolls, all for the benefit of being marginally better in the now.

Jost I still think has potential to be a good two way player. He's not right now though because he's not scoring. Hopefully that changes soon.

Compher though I'm not sure what to make of in the NHL. I'm looking forward to seeing how he looks when he gets back. I've always liked this high motor game, but he wasn't really that great defensively last year. He's 23 so he's had plenty of development years. I'd really like to see him up his ES defensive game this year and also really work on his PK game.

Kaut's still a bit raw and playing his first year pro in the minors, so we don't know exactly what we have there, and when he'll be fully ready. Kam I'm just being patient with since he's still working his way into the NHL.

So maybe Compher, Kaut, and Kam up their two way game to respectable levels next year, but right now that's just a hope, and the Avs Cup window is just starting to crack open. That could lead to deals for more proven guys, rather than waiting on some of the youngsters. I'm not pushing for it, but depending on the player, and the price, I can see the Avs starting to get a little more aggressive on this front.

 

[Meeqs]

Jost I still think has potential to be a good two way player. He's not right now though because he's not scoring. Hopefully that changes soon.

Compher though I'm not sure what to make of in the NHL. I'm looking forward to seeing how he looks when he gets back. I've always liked this high motor game, but he wasn't really that great defensively last year. He's 23 so he's had plenty of development years. I'd really like to see him up his ES defensive game this year and also really work on his PK game.

Kaut's still a bit raw and playing his first year pro in the minors, so we don't know exactly what we have there, and when he'll be fully ready. Kam I'm just being patient with since he's still working his way into the NHL.

So maybe Compher, Kaut, and Kam up their two way game to respectable levels next year, but right now that's just a hope, and the Avs Cup window is just starting to crack open. That could lead to deals for more proven guys, rather than waiting on some of the youngsters. I'm not pushing for it, but depending on the player, and the price, I can see the Avs starting to get a little more aggressive on this front.

Jost and JT should be pretty sure fire middle 6 guys. Kaut probably has the best chance of becoming a true 2nd liner. Kam could be a solid 3rd liner but we will still have to see.

I think the Avs biggest need is a legit 2c which they could get from the draft this year if they get lucky. Other than that just stock up on picks and prospects for another year or so and once the young core is locked up THEN you can look at adding some missing pieces. Avs really are in a weird development year. Kinda a shame they missed out on Stastny, woulda been such a solid transitional player from then till now.

But yeah the Avs have the depth guys in spades. Its really those high ceiling offensive players they are missing.

 

[Meeqs]

Agreed. The Avs had something good going with that line last year, and Comeau is a ~35 point guy.

I like Calvert, but he’s an energy player, which is why he doesn’t look good net to Soderberg (imo), but has looked great next to Compher. There was room to keep Comeau and sign Calvert.

What people are missing is that Calvert wasn't brought in to replace Comeau 5v5, it was supposed to be filled by an increased role to the kids, like a JT(who was great until he got hurt) and Calvert was just there to help with the loss to the PK.

The real reason it looks so bad is when Comeau left, Carl got an even worse winger in Gourque when he was already needing more help. If Compher or Kamanev was able to get some time with Carl I don't think it would be such an issue.

 

[Meeqs]

If you asked non-biased fans I think most would rank Colorado's defense as average.

Personally I think the defense in probably in that 14-20 range.

You can say non bias, however out of market fans are unlikely to be familiar with the younger players like Girard and his recent development and how Makar is doing which are the main reasons why the Avs defense is so solid, which is the youth and the depth.

Like how many Avs fans are aware of the seasons guys like Choloski or Lajoie are having so far? How many non market fans would even know what team each of those guys plays for.

 

[Foppa2118]

Jost and JT should be pretty sure fire middle 6 guys. Kaut probably has the best chance of becoming a true 2nd liner. Kam could be a solid 3rd liner but we will still have to see.

I think the Avs biggest need is a legit 2c which they could get from the draft this year if they get lucky. Other than that just stock up on picks and prospects for another year or so and once the young core is locked up THEN you can look at adding some missing pieces. Avs really are in a weird development year. Kinda a shame they missed out on Stastny, woulda been such a solid transitional player from then till now.

But yeah the Avs have the depth guys in spades. Its really those high ceiling offensive players they are missing.

I think we're talking about two slightly different things. I'm specifically talking about two way play from players not on the top line, and not named Soderberg. Not necessarily whether they can play in a middle pairing role.

One dimensional players can play in a middle pairing role, they just need to be surrounded by two way guys. Right now they don't have that, and it's a bit of a problem. They're either getting some one way offensive play, or one way defensive play. That needs to change somehow.

 

[Piestany88]

You can say non bias, however out of market fans are unlikely to be familiar with the younger players like Girard and his recent development and how Makar is doing which are the main reasons why the Avs defense is so solid, which is the youth and the depth.

Like how many Avs fans are aware of the seasons guys like Choloski or Lajoie are having so far? How many non market fans would even know what team each of those guys plays for.

I am , in my sportsnet fantasy pool I have had Cholowski for few weeks now lol . Lajoie obviously from our watching how Ottawa is fairing.

 

[Foppa2118]

If you asked non-biased fans I think most would rank Colorado's defense as average.

Personally I think the defense in probably in that 14-20 range.

I think it's still slightly below average, or average at best. It's basically reliant on the level of play from Girard and Z. Everyone else we know what level of play they're at.

EJ is pretty much a rock two way guy, though not an elite #1. Barrie's an elite PMD, but a liability defensively. Cole is a second pairing, mean, defensive D man that makes life tough for the opposition. Nemeth is a keep it simple bottom pairing guy that can play higher in a pinch. Barberio should be a healthy scratch on a good team IMO.

Z and Girard are the X factors though. Z's had a decent start to the year. Hopefully his confidence stays high and he finds maybe another level down the stretch, and into the playoffs.

Girard I'm a big fan of, but he's had a fair amount of moments where he's a little overmatched defensively in a top pairing role. Even with EJ helping him, he's still a little up and down in that role, because it's so tough to play, and he's still one of the youngest D men in the NHL.

 

[Meeqs]

I think we're talking about two slightly different things. I'm specifically talking about two way play from players not on the top line, and not named Soderberg. Not necessarily whether they can play in a middle pairing role.

One dimensional players can play in a middle pairing role, they just need to be surrounded by two way guys. Right now they don't have that, and it's a bit of a problem. They're either getting some one way offensive play, or one way defensive play. That needs to change somehow.

Yeah I just think its a bit more simplistic than that. Its just an overall lack of offensive ability, whether through guys who simply wont ever possess it, or kids who are still developing. Honestly its a weird time to evaluate it because for the most part the whole team has been struggle bus for a week+ now.

 

[Meeqs]

I am , in my sportsnet fantasy pool I have had Chowlowski for few weeks now lol . Lajoie obviously from our watching how Ottawa is fairing.

Would you expect the average fan too though? The point is its enough time to keep up with 1 team and a very small % watch multiple teams games and keep up with them.

By the time the overall hockey masses know a player is good they are either a) from Canada or b) have been good for 2-3 years already.

Like now everyone knows how good EK is but he was getting no hype the years before when he was killing just as badly.

There is a reason there are multiple jobs at the NHL level for simply understanding where players are at.

 

[CB Joe]

You can say non bias, however out of market fans are unlikely to be familiar with the younger players like Girard and his recent development and how Makar is doing which are the main reasons why the Avs defense is so solid, which is the youth and the depth.

Like how many Avs fans are aware of the seasons guys like Choloski or Lajoie are having so far? How many non market fans would even know what team each of those guys plays for.

Makar hasn't played for the Avs so he has nothing to do with the Avs defense.

Very few, if any, fans are going to know all the defensemen in the NHL as well as they know their own teams defensemen. I still think unbiased fans can put together a fair list ranking the league's defensive cores even if they are underrating/overrating a few players.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah I just think its a bit more simplistic than that. Its just an overall lack of offensive ability, whether through guys who simply wont ever possess it, or kids who are still developing. Honestly its a weird time to evaluate it because for the most part the whole team has been struggle bus for a week+ now.

I agree, a little more time needs to go by to fully evaluate.

It's not just offense though. Kerfoot, Ghetto, Compher, and Wilson are in middle six roles, and not particularly strong defensively. Kam you can put in that group as well, but he's a rookie so that's to be expected.

 

[Piestany88]

Would you expect the average fan too though? The point is its enough time to keep up with 1 team and a very small % watch multiple teams games and keep up with them.

By the time the overall hockey masses know a player is good they are either a) from Canada or b) have been good for 2-3 years already.

Like now everyone knows how good EK is but he was getting no hype the years before when he was killing just as badly.

There is a reason there are multiple jobs at the NHL level for simply understanding where players are at.

I know what your saying and I'm taking age and the Avs future into the d core conversations . Expecting Makar to sign after the season. D core will look good come playoff time.

 

[shadow1]

What people are missing is that Calvert wasn't brought in to replace Comeau 5v5, it was supposed to be filled by an increased role to the kids, like a JT(who was great until he got hurt) and Calvert was just there to help with the loss to the PK.

The real reason it looks so bad is when Comeau left, Carl got an even worse winger in Gourque when he was already needing more help. If Compher or Kamanev was able to get some time with Carl I don't think it would be such an issue.

The problem is no one was ever going to fill that role the same way Comeau did. A flawed player, sure; but a big strong forward who threw the body around and was very strong on the puck.

I agree Soderberg needs new line mates. Pairing him with fourth liners Nieto and Bourque every night isn't getting it done.

 

[shadow1]

On the subject of Colorado's defense...they're definitely top 10 for me, and could move higher if Makar comes in and makes a huge impact right away.

Nashville's defense is still tops for me, and the Sharks unit (Burns/Karlsson/Braun/Dillon/Vlasic) is also excellent. Carolina probably has the deepest unit in the league from 1-7.

But after those three, I think the Avs group is in the thick of things.

 

[agentblack]

With EJ's just complete lack of offensive ability , i cant put the Avs D top 10.