Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XIII| Trade Everyone!

[Foppa2118]

Saying we know what we have in Makar/Timmins is moronic. We have no idea what we have in them at the NHL level, we can project, but until they get here we have no idea how they'll adjust. If that was true Stefan Elliott, Duncan Siemens, Cam Barker, and every other big shot prospect that ended up busting would be an NHL star.

I understand being cautious about stating what level a prospect will get to in the NHL, or that they will even make the NHL before they do. However, Makar and Timmins are WAY above the level of prospect Elliott and Siemens ever were.

I can't speak for Barker because I didn't follow him as closely, but if we're referring to the hype behind prospects, the level of scouting and information out there for fans to judge prospects in 2018 is MUCH higher and allows for a much safer projection than it was for someone like Barker in 2004.

 

[henchman21]

The issue is if AJG will actually develop into a more useful player than the limited, yet consistent Gork we see. He has serious work to do.

Greer needs to re-invent himself into a defensive specialist now. It doesn't seem the offense will come around, so work on his ability to be good defensively, physical, and be a go-to PK guy. Otherwise he will end up in Europe.

 

[CB Joe]

Can we stop penciling Makar and Timmins into lineups. Do you know how many lineups I've seen through the years with Gaunce, Elliott, Siemens, and Bigras in them. Far to many. There is nothing special about Makar and Timmins that excludes them from busting or injury.

 

[Foppa2118]

Can we stop penciling Makar and Timmins into lineups. Do you know how many lineups I've seen through the years with Gaunce, Elliott, Siemens, and Bigras in them. Far to many. There is nothing special about Makar and Timmins that excludes them from busting or injury.

Makar and Timmins are both very safe bets to be NHLers of some sort. They're way above the level Gaunce, Elliott, Siemens, and even Bigras ever were. Bigras never showcased himself the way Timmins has and the same goes for Elliott vs Makar who is also much more dynamic.

I don't think you would find many if any scouts that would question whether they'll be NHLers if healthy.

Injuries however are always an X factor, and a legit concern for Timmins with how long he's been out with his last concussion.

 

[tucker3434]

Can we stop penciling Makar and Timmins into lineups. Do you know how many lineups I've seen through the years with Gaunce, Elliott, Siemens, and Bigras in them. Far to many. There is nothing special about Makar and Timmins that excludes them from busting or injury.

Both of those guys will be on the Avs by the end of the season. Not quite the same.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Both of those guys will be on the Avs by the end of the season. Not quite the same.

I mean not really. How many times was Bigras supposed to end up on the Avs roster?

 

[tucker3434]

I mean not really. How many times was Bigras supposed to end up on the Avs roster?

I’m not sure Makar wouldn’t be on the roster already if he’d signed his ELC. He may not be all were hoping him to be, but pencilling him into a bottom pairing isn’t remotely a reach.

 

[McMetal]

Does anybody else find it weird that Makar went from our unanimous top prospect to "probably won't be as good as Barrie" in the course of a single summer?

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Does anybody else find it weird that Makar went from our unanimous top prospect to "probably won't be as good as Barrie" in the course of a single summer?

Why can't both those things be true?

 

[dahrougem2]

Does anybody else find it weird that Makar went from our unanimous top prospect to "probably won't be as good as Barrie" in the course of a single summer?

Nobody is saying he won't be as good as Barrie. What people ARE saying is that he won't be able to replicate Barrie's production immediately, which is more than fair to claim even though some push the false narrative that Makar can already do what Barrie does right now.

 

[EdAVSfan]

The Avs best chance to win, without a doubt, is between now, and June of 2023.

It’s entirely possible the Avs can have a 6-man defense of EJ, Barrie, Zadorov, Girard, Makar and Timmins, and it be cap-fitting. There’s an expansion in there to increase the cap as well.

If the Avs want to max out on their cup chances, it may be in their best interest to stack thup defense. It’s not like the Avs HAVE to go and get expensive secondary scoring.

 

[Foppa2118]

Nobody is saying he won't be as good as Barrie. What people ARE saying is that he won't be able to replicate Barrie's production immediately, which is more than fair to claim even though some push the false narrative that Makar can already do what Barrie does right now.

For the sake of argument, if Girard goes from 20 to 30 points this year, and Zadorov goes from 20 to 25 points, while EJ maintains his 35 or so points, does that not make it easier to lose Barrie's production, with the addition of whatever Makar and Timmins have the potential to bring?

And that's not factoring in the level of defense from the blueline potentially going up.

Obviously we all can agree the blueline is better with Barrie than without, but if they do have to lose him due to a contract dispute, I don't think the loss of his production will be a big problem, unless Makar can't get beyond say a 25-30 point level.

Personally I think Makar will l be good for at least 30+. I wouldn't say that with most any other defensive prospect before they made the NHL, but I think he's shown to be pretty special in that regard.

 

[Meeqs]

I hope AJG can take Gork's spot next season. Nothing against Gork but I feel like we're getting the best Gork and this is all he's ever going to be.

Keep in mind Sven and Kamanev are still soon to be in the line up as well. I think Greer could make a great addition to the bottom 6 but he'd need to become on hell of a PKer or some how find a way to get his offensive skills to translate. I don't see any reason why he couldn't be what Wilson is though.

 

[Meeqs]

You should google " NHL redraft", pretty amazing how the results are different from the actual draft after thr first few players. Just saying...

I actually really love Hockeydb instead. Its really interesting to go back throughout the drafts every few months and see how things turned out. It puts A LOT into perspective. I think redrafts are more of a silly game but when you see which players were taken where and what some of the other possible alternatives were, at least to me it adds a lot more.

It also makes the %'s by round pretty apparent in a clear way. Its fun(sometimes painful haha) to compare years as well

 

[McMetal]

Nobody is saying he won't be as good as Barrie. What people ARE saying is that he won't be able to replicate Barrie's production immediately, which is more than fair to claim even though some push the false narrative that Makar can already do what Barrie does right now.

The false narrative is that any defenseman replacing Barrie HAS to replicate his points production. A two-way player who scores 30 points and prevents 20 more goals would have the same total value to the team, it's not true that points are the only metric you can use to measure the value a player brings.

 

[Meeqs]

So you're telling us right now that a season after both Siemens and Elliott were drafted, you knew that they'd both become non-NHLers? Or are you just using revisionist history to further along your point.

In general I take the approach that most prospects wont make it until they show something special or that they are at a point where they are so close that busting would be unlikely. I keep in mind the standard development windows for each role, so forwards you give a year or 2 and then see where they are at, dmen you generally wait until they are 24ish and goalies are complete random nightmares that I avoid entirely haha.

As of today I feel that Makar and Timmins are NHL ready right now given their skillsets in the 10-15ish games of theirs I have watched over the past year. Most fans don't watch a lot of junior/college games and aren't comfortable with those statements until they see them in the NHL, which I can understand but that isn't the case with me personally.

Kaut is another good example. I would feel comfortable assuming he will make the NHL because he is already so developed he doesn't have much room to go to at minimum make the league. Where thats at who knows.

Everyone else in the system I'd wait and see, including Kamanev who would also be pretty safe.

In general though I'm a pretty big hater of prospects. I never thought guys like Siemens and Hishon would make it and when I say that I mean while many fans took the stance that they never got the chance, mine was that they simply weren't good enough to get the chance and they never made it. Rooted for them, but didn't believe in them.

Finally I would say that Elliot is a poor example, mostly because offensive defensemen are one of the most boom or bust positions in the NHL. They either are incredible or flat out dont make it. You have to have an absolutely absurd skillset, like a Makar, to have any sort of confidence what so ever. If there was a position I hate on the most it would be that. I think guys like Jake Bean, DeAngelo back in the day, are all busts and am generally a hater.

Tldr: I assume prospects wont make it and make adjustments as time goes on.

 

[Meeqs]

Can we stop penciling Makar and Timmins into lineups. Do you know how many lineups I've seen through the years with Gaunce, Elliott, Siemens, and Bigras in them. Far to many. There is nothing special about Makar and Timmins that excludes them from busting or injury.

This is the main stance I'm against as its simply not true. Makar and Timmins are special players while the rest of them never were.

Its true that any player at any time can get injured, and its also true that previous Avs prospects were FAR FAR too hyped as thats what shitty teams do to make the fan bases happy but the rest of that statement is flat out incorrect.

If you can't tell the difference between Gaunce and Makar you are simply lack the understanding of the situation.

 

[Meeqs]

I mean not really. How many times was Bigras supposed to end up on the Avs roster?

Bigras showed a couple of great flashes and man did that injury just derail his entire game. He was never the same player afterwards. That one was a real bummer.

 

[Meeqs]

Nobody is saying he won't be as good as Barrie. What people ARE saying is that he won't be able to replicate Barrie's production immediately, which is more than fair to claim even though some push the false narrative that Makar can already do what Barrie does right now.

I think it would be incredibly foolish to expect Makar to replace what Barrie brings right away. Barrie is a top 5 offensive Dman in the NHL. However he really doesn't have to and he certainly has the ability to one day do so, if not surpass him as a player.

 

[Balthazar]

Timmins may never get over his concussion symptoms.

Did I miss an update on his health condition?

 

[Foppberg]

Did I miss an update on his health condition?

Nah, just a statement on people penciling Timmins/Makar into our lineup too prematurely.

 

[Newusername]

I have wanted Panarin on this team since he joined the hawks, their is pretty much a 0% chance we get him but what kind of contract do you guys think he will get next july 1? i think if we had hughes we could maybe entice him

 

[Avs44]

I have wanted Panarin on this team since he joined the hawks, their is pretty much a 0% chance we get him but what kind of contract do you guys think he will get next july 1? i think if we had hughes we could maybe entice him

I don't think it's quality of team he's looking for....I think it's location. I've gone into more detail in other posts but he's on a pretty good club with a bright future in Columbus. I just don't think he wants to be anywhere in the midwest or the rockies region. I could see him ending up in Florida (Tampa) since he seems to have friends there and it's Florida, a city like Washington, or more likely New York or California IMO. I don't think a team like the Avs would even get a meeting, and I don't think it'll have much to do with who the Avs have on their roster. I might be completely wrong of course, but I don't think he came over from Russia with a dream to play in a city like Denver, Columbus, anywhere in Canada, etc.

 

[dahrougem2]

The false narrative is that any defenseman replacing Barrie HAS to replicate his points production. A two-way player who scores 30 points and prevents 20 more goals would have the same total value to the team, it's not true that points are the only metric you can use to measure the value a player brings.

High end production > two way play, that's just a fact of life in the NHL.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I have wanted Panarin on this team since he joined the hawks, their is pretty much a 0% chance we get him but what kind of contract do you guys think he will get next july 1? i think if we had hughes we could maybe entice him

Yep. Apparently he wants some big city team or that was the rumour some time ago. He is hell of a player and would be great signing.