Post-Game Talk: Avs @ Devils 5PM MST || All they needed was some more chemistry and some symmetries.

[agentblack]

Briere--Duchene--Tanguay
ROR---Mack---McGinn
Iggy--Mitch--Landy

Obviously they've been winning so no need to change
but I predicted Briere and Duchene are gonna wind up
together...well actually NHL 13 predicted it but still..

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Holden looks so awful. So slow. We re-signed him for 3 years. Damn.

 

[Foppa2118]

I was a big supporter of Holden after his end of the season run last year, but we're actually at the point where he's a bigger liability than Guenin. I can't see any reason right now why Holden is playing and Siemens isn't. At least for a game to see how he does. Realistically they have pretty much the same transition game/puck skills but Siemens actually has a better outlet pass when he puts his mind to it.

If they need to send Holden down to make it work, so be it. His head is so far up his ass, he needs a wake up call. I have no idea what kind of defense he thinks he's playing out there. That contract must have gone to his head or something.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Holden had a good camp and preseason, he just fell apart since then. I don't think his natural game is THAT bad, he seems to have lost a lot of confidence. For some reason when he got paired with EJ that's when the downfall started.

 

[Metallo]

Seriously, does anyone have the link to the EJ interview or at least can make a short recap? Thanks in advance.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Disagree 100%.


He's been the best forward on a nightly basis. The only other forward who's played on his level or higher has been Tanguay.

But if RoR turned the puck over as much as Duchene has been recently then he would be blasted like crazy. Oh wait, he was turning it over like that early in the season, and he is still getting criticized for it after every little mistake as if he is still turning it over a lot. But Duchene, oh no, he hasn't been terrible like RoR, he is actually our best player makes no sense. Let me guess, those turnovers by Duchene have been RoRs fault?

 

[JLo217]

But if RoR turned the puck over as much as Duchene has been recently then he would be blasted like crazy. Oh wait, he was turning it over like that early in the season, and he is still getting criticized for it after every little mistake as if he is still turning it over a lot. But Duchene, oh no, he hasn't been terrible like RoR, he is actually our best player makes no sense. Let me guess, those turnovers by Duchene have been RoRs fault?

Maybe because Duchene actually tries....

 

[RockLobster]

Maybe because Duchene actually tries....

I'd like to see a single thread of evidence that O'Reilly "doesn't try". (and I don't mean conjecture, something 100% verifiable)

But the poster you quoted is right, if it were anyone other than Duchene committing those turnovers they would be blasted every night...hell at this time Landeskog and O'Reilly are blasted pretty much every night.

The fact is, as fans we tend to treat Matt Duchene differently, and I feel that it's solely because of the blown-up story of how much of an Avs fan he was growing up.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Maybe because Duchene actually tries....

Tries to do too much by himself

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

But if RoR turned the puck over as much as Duchene has been recently then he would be blasted like crazy. Oh wait, he was turning it over like that early in the season, and he is still getting criticized for it after every little mistake as if he is still turning it over a lot. But Duchene, oh no, he hasn't been terrible like RoR, he is actually our best player makes no sense. Let me guess, those turnovers by Duchene have been RoRs fault?

Nope.


Duchene hasn't been turning the puck over half as much as(For whatever reason) you think he has.


He had maybe 2 bad turnovers last night.



Honestly, I haven't been saying anything about ROR's game all year either. He's certainly not playing at the level he was last year, but I dont think he's been nearly as bad as a lot of people are making him out to be this year.


Duchene has been our best player almost every night this year. He's made a couple bad decisions with the puck, but not half as many as you think he has.

 

[RockLobster]

Nope.


Duchene hasn't been turning the puck over half as much as(For whatever reason) you think he has.


He had maybe 2 bad turnovers last night.



Honestly, I haven't been saying anything about ROR's game all year either. He's certainly not playing at the level he was last year, but I dont think he's been nearly as bad as a lot of people are making him out to be this year.


Duchene has been our best player almost every night this year. He's made a couple bad decisions with the puck, but not half as many as you think he has.

This just isn't true.

But once again, flashy offensive moves are blinding.

I love Matt Duchene, I'm so happy that he's on the Avalanche, I bought his jersey and wear it quite often. I am a huge Matt Duchene fan.

But if we're being realistic, he's got the same problems that he's had consistently since entering the league, and that is that often times he tries to do too much by himself. He forces terrible passes that often result in a turnover and the puck heading the other way. He does commit pretty bad turnovers, and it's more than "just a couple of bad decisions w/ the puck".

Again, I legitimately believe that if there were no story about him being an Avs fan growing up that fans would be treating him differently.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

This just isn't true.

But once again, flashy offensive moves are blinding.

I love Matt Duchene, I'm so happy that he's on the Avalanche, I bought his jersey and wear it quite often. I am a huge Matt Duchene fan.

But if we're being realistic, he's got the same problems that he's had consistently since entering the league, and that is that often times he tries to do too much by himself. He forces terrible passes that often result in a turnover and the puck heading the other way. He does commit pretty bad turnovers, and it's more than "just a couple of bad decisions w/ the puck".

Again, I legitimately believe that if there were no story about him being an Avs fan growing up that fans would be treating him differently.

Its like the bolded is supposed to justify your opinion or something....


It doesn't. He's not nearly as bad as you're making him out to be. Dont understand why its all of a sudden Duchene who were going to make up false claims about(It has been ROR up until now), but for some reason it is.


He had a meh game last night, that's it. He was great against NYR. He and Tangs were the best players on the ice. Everyone sucked against NYI(But again, Duchene was probably still our best player).


First it was ROR getting the pretty baseless hate. He was playing bad, but nowhere near the level some people pretended he was playing. Now its time to move on Duchene I guess.



If anyone is deserving of these criticisms right now, its Mack and to a lesser extent Landeskog. Mack is the one who turns the puck over almost every time he takes it up the ice. Roy has obviously seen this as well by moving Mitchell up the #2C spot and Mack down to the #3C spot.


If Duchene was really having these problems, Roy would be moving him down too.

 

[RockLobster]

No, it doesn't "justify my claims" but it is there to show that I'm not bashing for sake of bashing.

Your post where you say "Everyone sucked against NYI" you seem to not be able to actually criticize Duchene so you have to throw in "But he was probably our best player..."

Matt Duchene is not above criticism for his obvious faults. Feel free to disagree (I know you already do).

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Duchene has made a lot of careless plays with the puck this year, especially on the PP. He's trying to force to many passes. That doesn't mean he's not trying, but he needs to play smarter.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Seriously, does anyone have the link to the EJ interview or at least can make a short recap? Thanks in advance.

Trying to remember from last night...asked about playing 30 minutes, he loves it and makes him feel more in the game and that's what he wanted. Felt like 24/25 minutes. Roy and Tourigny asked him to get in different kind of shape to be ready for those kind of minutes and he worked on things and slimmed down. Asked about how it's took him a few years in his career to become the player he wants to be, he's impulsive and wants it right now but it took the years for him so see the game he does. Hes his own worst critic and hes been very hard on himself but worked through it. He's very happy they can have a happy plane ride home.

Wish I could remember more his exact words but he was very reflective, was a big moment in his career to play those minutes and score. Looked elated and almost teary at times. Then McNab went on a bit how he talked to EJ a lot about living up to Towes and Staal then having to justify the trade on what Stewart and Shattenkrk did in e first couple years and how much it weighed in him.

 

[cgf]

But if RoR turned the puck over as much as Duchene has been recently then he would be blasted like crazy. Oh wait, he was turning it over like that early in the season, and he is still getting criticized for it after every little mistake as if he is still turning it over a lot. But Duchene, oh no, he hasn't been terrible like RoR, he is actually our best player makes no sense. Let me guess, those turnovers by Duchene have been RoRs fault?

ROR had his first not terrible game of the year. That's very different than a guy who's had a rough week or two...in which he's still scored and made things happen.

 

[ABasin]

But if RoR turned the puck over as much as Duchene has been recently then he would be blasted like crazy. But Duchene, oh no, he hasn't been terrible like RoR, he is actually our best player makes no sense.

But the poster you quoted is right, if it were anyone other than Duchene committing those turnovers they would be blasted every night...hell at this time Landeskog and O'Reilly are blasted pretty much every night.

The fact is, as fans we tend to treat Matt Duchene differently, and I feel that it's solely because of the blown-up story of how much of an Avs fan he was growing up.

Interesting points of view, re: Duchene. It does seem that Duchene is getting a bit of a pass here, because early on, the Avs forward corps have not played at all well together. So, just about *everyone* hasn't been playing really good hockey with their linemates. Duchene has had (IMO) some individual efforts that surpass those of his teammates, and perhaps that's why he "gets a pass". I sure hope it has nothing to do with him owning a Sakic jersey as a kid. That would be simply stupid.

That said, even if we don't excuse Duchene's turnovers, he has simply been better than O'Reilly so far this season.

I do believe that the last two games represent the first two of the season in which both Duchene and O'Reilly played fairly solid games - last night in particular. Actually, I thought last night was one of O'R's best games of the season, if not the best. Good to see.

 

[Avs71]

I just remembered EJ played 11 minutes in the 3rd against New York. I wonder if this is going to be a trend now, seeing as that's now 4 periods in a row he has played around 10 minutes.

 

[tigervixxxen]

If anyone bleeds burgundy it's Duchene and it's not because of his childhood. A lot of guys grew up fans and had jerseys, we've seen a ton of pictures (btw, I bet you guys didn't see on Istagram Everberg shared a pic of him wearing an Avs jersey as a kid). He's proved he loves Denver and Colorado just as much as the Avs and as someone who is very proud of my state that means a lot to me. People may gravitate to his outspoken , intense and passionate nature. Some games it has looked like he was the only one to show up. Doesn't mean he doesn't have his flaws but he is generally a victim of trying too much than not trying hard. It's not because he is flashy, MacKinnon is just as flashy.

I havent bought into the whole Landy and O'Reilly are lazy and are not trying meme. When you are overthinking you are a half step or second slower. I highly doubt they don't care. Even if the chances are slim O'Reilly is here two years from now I believe he's giving an honest effort into winning. Maybe his mindset effects him, maybe it doesn't but I believe he's trying.

 

[Freudian]

Since changing the defensive structure Avs are 3-2 and have been at least as good as the opponents in four of the games (vs Leafs, Flyers, Rangers and Devils). It's just the Islanders game that was real bad and sent everyone into the abyss.

They're slowly getting there. Landeskog, Iginla and O'Reilly are looking better. Barrie has that jump and has been good in his own end, especially with the puck on his stick. EJ and Hejda handles 25 minutes a game better than anyone could have hoped. Duchene, while not perfect, is playing with the drive he has to.

The positive developments are there.

Now they have four days to try to figure out how to play on the PP. MacKinnon will have a learning year and that's not strange. Hopefully Stuart will be back so Roy can at least create two pairs he trusts.

I still don't think they'll make the playoffs but they'll be fine going forward. There is a lot of skill on the team so it's not out of the question that the pieces fall into their proper place and they'll make it interesting.

I've flushed the Islanders game from my mind because it made me sillier than I normally am.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I just remembered EJ played 11 minutes in the 3rd against New York. I wonder if this is going to be a trend now, seeing as that's now 4 periods in a row he has played around 10 minutes.

Maybe not 10 minutes very period but if they are trailing he will play more. Rycroft commented that the 4 days off might have contributed to riding him more but I think EJ will play at least 25 minutes.

 

[Metallo]

Maybe not 10 minutes very period but if they are trailing he will play more. Rycroft commented that the 4 days off might have contributed to riding him more but I think EJ will play at least 25 minutes.

EJ needs to play a lot. I never understood why Sacco barely played him 20 min a night.

 

[Metallo]

Trying to remember from last night...asked about playing 30 minutes, he loves it and makes him feel more in the game and that's what he wanted. Felt like 24/25 minutes. Roy and Tourigny asked him to get in different kind of shape to be ready for those kind of minutes and he worked on things and slimmed down. Asked about how it's took him a few years in his career to become the player he wants to be, he's impulsive and wants it right now but it took the years for him so see the game he does. Hes his own worst critic and hes been very hard on himself but worked through it. He's very happy they can have a happy plane ride home.

Wish I could remember more his exact words but he was very reflective, was a big moment in his career to play those minutes and score. Looked elated and almost teary at times. Then McNab went on a bit how he talked to EJ a lot about living up to Towes and Staal then having to justify the trade on what Stewart and Shattenkrk did in e first couple years and how much it weighed in him.

Thanks a lot. I'm sorry I missed that. Great to see EJ's passion, pretty much co-MVP for the Avs with Varly up to now in my book.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

Duchene and Tanguay have definitely been our best forwards so far. But Duchene trying to take on 4 guys at once or do stupid fancy stuff that leads to a turnover has happened way too much.

 

[Freudian]

EJ needs to play a lot. I never understood why Sacco barely played him 20 min a night.

Most defenders can't handle much more than 25 minutes a night. Players that play an economical style while being able to recoup energy quickly on the bench can play up to 30 minutes (Lidström, Keith, Suter).

I'd be surprised if EJ can handle playing those kinds of minutes since he has a physical playing style. Once in a while is probably not a problem but if he lands on 24-25 minutes a night in the long run, that's probably at a level where he can perform at a high level without wearing down.

Look at Phaneuf last year. For the first 50-60 games they used him 24-25 minutes and after that he was done and was terrible down the stretch. They reduced his minutes to help him and it still wasn't enough.