Post-Game Talk: Avs @ Devils 5PM MST || All they needed was some more chemistry and some symmetries.

[5280]

Woops

 

[member 116861]

On the giveaways theme:

Link to source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....ASALL&sort=giveaways&viewName=rtssPlayerStats

Do icings count as giveaways? Probably why EJ is #1.

 

[Freudian]

The giveaway stat is hard to use for anything. More than anything it's an attempting to make plays stat. Often those with many giveaways also have a lot of successful plays.

Last year Karlsson, Hall, Thornton, Kessel, Subban and Doughty were in the top ten. Petry too, but he's better than EJ so that explains that.

 

[cgf]

I wasn't really directing my comment at you, but he does seem to be taking a little more heat than Landeskog. (or am I wrong?)

You're probably right on that as a lot of people turned on ROR over the contract, though I don't think there's much of a notable difference. And Landy has had a few more "good moments" that stick out which IMO are more responsible for any difference in gripes between the two of them than the contract/anti-ROR thing.

Making fun of Landy's tendency to spend shifts at a time sliding across the ice on his knees, belly and ass is becoming a bit of a gdt ritual...or at least I'm trying to make it one cause the last av I can remember having this much trouble staying on his skates was Palushaj.

 

[member 116861]

I didn't read through the GDT but am I correct in assuming that you all discussed how EJ is a god?

 

[5280]

You're probably right on that as a lot of people turned on ROR over the contract, though I don't think there's much of a notable difference. And Landy has had a few more "good moments" that stick out which IMO are more responsible for any difference in gripes between the two of them than the contract/anti-ROR thing.

Making fun of Landy's tendency to spend shifts at a time sliding across the ice on his knees, belly and ass is becoming a bit of a gdt ritual...or at least I'm trying to make it one cause the last av I can remember having this much trouble staying on his skates was Palushaj.

Yeah, I always noticed that, too. I was hoping that would go away as he got older. c'mon Landy!

 

[Freudian]

I didn't read through the GDT but am I correct in assuming that you all discussed how EJ is a god?

Divine intervention is a good explanation for the goal Schneider allowed.

 

[AslanRH]

Giveaways and takeaways seem so arbitrary anyway.

There are games where I think I see quite a few and then the box score shows very few and vice versa. Or perhaps I just don't have a handle on what qualifies and what doesn't.

One thing is that Cliche isn't getting enough love for his ratio given how much he seems to lack much skill. He really isn't anything special, but not deserving of the wrath he gets either

 

[tigervixxxen]

Giveaways and takeaways seem so arbitrary anyway.

There are games where I think I see quite a few and then the box score shows very few and vice versa. Or perhaps I just don't have a handle on what qualifies and what doesn't.

One thing is that Cliche isn't getting enough love for his ratio given how much he seems to lack much skill. He really isn't anything special, but not deserving of the wrath he gets either

It's up to the home team scoring so some are more liberal than others. It's the same thing as hits and even shots. Sometimes there are 5 hits in a game, sometimes over 30 so it just depends on how they count it.

 

[5280]

Giveaways and takeaways seem so arbitrary anyway.

There are games where I think I see quite a few and then the box score shows very few and vice versa. Or perhaps I just don't have a handle on what qualifies and what doesn't.

One thing is that Cliche isn't getting enough love for his ratio given how much he seems to lack much skill. He really isn't anything special, but not deserving of the wrath he gets either

If he could only play offense.

 

[Freudian]

One thing is that Cliche isn't getting enough love for his ratio given how much he seems to lack much skill. He really isn't anything special, but not deserving of the wrath he gets either

If he and Talbot actually scored once in a while when they're right in front of the goalie receiving a pass, people would complain less.

The same goes for Landeskog. He doesn't have good finishing skill so he wastes more opportunities than a true scorer.

When the team struggles a bit creating offense, wasting grade A scoring chances is a bit annoying.

 

[cgf]

Landy may waste some golden opportunities, but he is a master at scoring soft goals. EJ's moment of divine intervention was straight from Landy's playbook.

 

[Joe Sakic]

Do glad we won 2 in a row before this 4 day break. Gives us a positive attitude going into the break.

We desperately need ROR, Landy, and MacKinnon to find their games if we're going to have any shot at all at making the play-offs.

Duchene and Tanguay have been carrying this team.

And hopefully EJ and Barrie continue their excellent play.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Do glad we won 2 in a row before this 4 day break. Gives us a positive attitude going into the break.

We desperately need ROR, Landy, and MacKinnon to find their games if we're going to have any shot at all at making the play-offs.

Duchene and Tanguay have been carrying this team.

And hopefully EJ and Barrie continue their excellent play.

If our forwards were producing at anywhere near the pace they all did last year, Barrie and EJ would have a few more points as well. Most likely anyways...

Duchene is even pretty far off the mark tbh.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Barrie 6th in defenseman scoring, EJ in 14th, not bad.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/points/sort/points/position/defensemen

 

[CobraAcesS]

Barrie 6th in defenseman scoring, EJ in 14th, not bad.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/points/sort/points/position/defensemen

Is it good or bad that this list makes me want Yandle even more?

Edit : I'm not really completely on the trade O'Reilly train, but I wouldn't cry either. I'd want Vermette coming with though.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

ROR showed some signs of classic ROR last game. Landy showed some signs of classic Landy. If we can get more consistency I think this team starts rolling.

Also, does anybody else not notice Guenin since he's been paired with Barrie. I mean that in the best way possible. IF Nate Guenin is playing a regular shift but not being noticed by fans it means he's doing his job. I think Redmond comes out once Stuart is back. Unless Roy does the team and takes Holden out.

I'd love to see this
Hejda EJ
Stuart Redmond
Guenin Barrie


But then again if Guenin makes one Guenin like mistake I will be asking for his head

 

[Alex Jones]

Giveaways and takeaways seem so arbitrary anyway.

There are games where I think I see quite a few and then the box score shows very few and vice versa. Or perhaps I just don't have a handle on what qualifies and what doesn't.

One thing is that Cliche isn't getting enough love for his ratio given how much he seems to lack much skill. He really isn't anything special, but not deserving of the wrath he gets either

You can't have any turnovers when your team never has the puck when you're on the ice

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I hate the 'you disagree with me so you must not watch the games' "logic", but this makes me have to ask, have you been watching this year?

ROR has been awful all year, he's the only reason Landy (my favorite player in the league) hasn't run away with the title of our worst forward thus far. And even defensively Duchene has been better as yesterday was the first time ROR was asserting himself in puck battles and not giving the puck away every time it touched his stick.

Duchene's production has been poor and his play fell apart when Roy put MacK and Landy on his wings, but I don't see how anyone can even compare his play this year to ROR/Landy/MacK. Tanguay's the one forward who's out played duchene, and even he sucked the first 4-5 games harder than Dutchy has since Patty tried the lottery-line.

Yes I have watched the games. I also have notes and tallies on every single goal we have scored and allowed.

No chance in hell has he been "awful". That is just ridiculous. He hasn't been as good as he should, but certainly not awful. Hyperbole at its finest. He is more good than bad.

Duchene in no way shape or form has been better than RoR defensively. RoR and Lando have been our best defensive forwards by far. And Duchene has basically been the worst. If you can't admit that then I have to take your approach and ask if you have watched the games. Duchene has had many more negative plays lead to goals against. It's not even close.

RoR has been more involved in puck battles since the switch in defensive scheme. The entire team has.

And how is giving the puck away part of defense? But since you brought that up, looks like your letting his first couple games warp your point of view on the rest of the season. He hasn't been turning the puck over nearly as much as he was early on. Certainly isnt giving it away every time (more wonderful hyperbole). I wouldn't be surprised if Duchene has turned it over more the past few games. But for some reason Duchene is allowed to turn the puck over and not get hell for it.

RoR and Lando can be compared because there is more to hockey than skating and production. Keeping the puck out of your opponents net is just as important as getting the puck in your own net. When you take our goals and our opponents goals and look at the complete picture, not just when we have the puck, then yes these guys are very comparable. These 3 would be the 3 best on the team, as sad as that is.

Tangs is the only one? Maybe if all you care about is how our own goals are scored. But when you factor in how the other team scores, well, tangs isn't doing too hot. Most his positive plays that have led to goals for have been canceled out by negative plays leading to goals against. All his great plays being a main reason for a goal for have been canceled out by equally bad plays allowing a goal.

 

[cgf]

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree immensely. Because I just don't understand how anyone can watch ROR this year and think he's looked like himself before this last game.

 

[The Shermanator]

ROR is hot garbage and everyone knows it. 2 goals in 19 games? That's *********. He needs to produce. Landy needs to produce. McGinn needs to produce. Iggy needs to score. Or we are going nowhere fast.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

That most unlucky player in the league? Gabriel Landeskog.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/mirtle-unsustainable-flames-cant-keep-burning-teams-forever/article21610221/

UNLUCKIEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE
There are a lot of candidates this early on, but one right up there has to be Avs captain Gabriel Landeskog.

A remarkably consistent player since he came into the league and won the Calder Trophy as a rookie, Landeskog has averaged a little more than 55 points per 82 games prior to this season.

Last year was a bit of a breakout year, too, with 26 goals and 65 points. Add in the fact he has had two seasons with big plus numbers in the plus-minus column, and he has gained a reputation for being a good two-way player and hasn’t really received a lot of criticism in his young career.

And yet, this season, he’s on pace for 30 points and at minus-11 has one of the worst marks in the league.

Much of that is bad luck.

After 19 games, Landeskog has been on the ice for five goals for and 15 against at even strength. The Avs’ shooting percentage when he’s on the ice has been 3.8 per cent, one of the lowest in the league.

If you take his two 5-on-5 goals out of the equation, his linemates have scored only three times on nearly 100 shots on goal.

The Avs goalies, meanwhile, aren’t saving much when he’s out there, which is what often makes plus-minus such a dubious stat.

This won’t keep up all year, but it’s been a very hard start for a good young player.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

That most unlucky player in the league? Gabriel Landeskog.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/mirtle-unsustainable-flames-cant-keep-burning-teams-forever/article21610221/

I love when people write articles without watching a single game. Landeskog's bad start isn't about luck. O'Reilly's start has more to do with bad luck than Landy, but both have refused to bring the effort they need.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Both are focusing more on the defensive side of the game, especially Landy. I agree with SaH that it's becoming a bunch of hyperbole to keep going on about how both are terrible. Yes I see that ROR has been much more passive than he is when he's on his game and Landy has tripped and fallen down an awful lot. Both could stand to be better offensively but they also are doing other things right.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I love when people write articles without watching a single game. Landeskog's bad start isn't about luck. O'Reilly's start has more to do with bad luck than Landy, but both have refused to bring the effort they need.

Did you read what he wrote? It wasn't as much focusing on him, but who he's been out there with. His linemates only have three goals on 100 shots when he's on the ice. That's absurdly low. Landy's numbers would look a lot better if only a few of those went in.