Art Ross thread (2018/19)

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I'm not so sure about that. Is Kucherov really that far below Ovechkin or Malkin at their best right now? Is MacKinnon really worse than Henrik Sedin?

Yes to both

 

[koyvoo]

Nathan Mackinnon at 23 yrs old has a 97 pt and likely a 100 pt season under his belt.

By the time Henrik Sedin was 23 yrs old his highest point total in one season was 42 pts.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Nathan Mackinnon at 23 yrs old has a 97 pt and likely a 100 pt season under his belt.

By the time Henrik Sedin was 23 yrs old his highest point total in one season was 42 pts.

And as much as people love Ovie and Geno, what Kuch has done in the first half of this season is ridiculous.

Sure, scoring is up, but it's not at some 1980s level. It's at a little over 6.00 goals per game. He has a comfortable lead in the Art Ross race. Objectively, this may go down as one of the best offensive seasons of the century

 

[Dondini]

And as much as people love Ovie and Geno, what Kuch has done in the first half of this season is ridiculous.

Sure, scoring is up, but it's not at some 1980s level. It's at a little over 6.00 goals per game. He has a comfortable lead in the Art Ross race. Objectively, this may go down as one of the best offensive seasons of the century

Yeah probably the second best of the century, right after Connor mcdavids 2018-2019 season

 

[GlitchMarner]

Gaudreau scores a point this afternoon.

Kucherov: 69 points
Rantanen: 65 points
MacKinnon: 63 points
Gaudreau: 62 points
McDavid: 61 points

 

[Sky04]

Nathan Mackinnon at 23 yrs old has a 97 pt and likely a 100 pt season under his belt.

By the time Henrik Sedin was 23 yrs old his highest point total in one season was 42 pts.

And Martin St.louis 2x Art Ross winner had 20 career points at age 26, so what?

 

[jeffff]

Goals scored:

TB 174
Calgary 153
Colorado 144
Edmonton 114

One is not like the other lol

If Edmonton had a 174 goals...Connor would have 93 pts.

 

[koyvoo]

And Martin St.louis 2x Art Ross winner had 20 career points at age 26, so what?

Ya. His first full season wasn’t until he was 26 years old.

In the comparison that was made between Mackinnon and Sedin, they both came into the league very young and considering pre draft hype and their trajectories, it’s silly to definitively claim Sedin as better than Mackinnon.

 

[DFC]

And as much as people love Ovie and Geno, what Kuch has done in the first half of this season is ridiculous.

Sure, scoring is up, but it's not at some 1980s level. It's at a little over 6.00 goals per game. He has a comfortable lead in the Art Ross race. Objectively, this may go down as one of the best offensive seasons of the century

I'm as big a Kucherov supporter as there is, but it's not a given that he'll stay hot. We've seen him go quiet for long stretches after massive hot streaks before. His game is so precision-based that if he's off by a hair, it falls apart.

 

[DFC]

Ya. His first full season wasn’t until he was 26 years old.

In the comparison that was made between Mackinnon and Sedin, they both came into the league very young and considering pre draft hype and their trajectories, it’s silly to definitively claim Sedin as better than Mackinnon.

The Sedins came into the league at a VERY different time. The game is a lot easier for young players to adapt to than it was 15-20 years ago.

Development should never be looked at as a standardized thing. Guys take a million different paths to their own finished product. Kucherov, for instance, struggled defensively in his first year, and couldn't buy PP time even though he clearly had one of the better shots on the team. It hurt his numbers/confidence/whatever. It wasn't until the triplets got together that he started taking massive steps forward. And now here we are. Players who were better than Kucherov at a younger age are still unlikely to reach the heights he's now reached.

 

[The Macho King]

Goals scored:

TB 174
Calgary 153
Colorado 144
Edmonton 114

One is not like the other lol

If Edmonton had a 174 goals...Connor would have 93 pts.

Why does the fact that we have people who can score on lines 2-4 relevant to what top line players? Looking at team goals is flawed for numerous reasons. Mathieu Joseph having 10 goals on the 4th line doesn't give Kucherov any more points.

 

[GlitchMarner]

The bottom line is that 2019 MacK is pretty much on the same level offensively at 2010 H. Sedin... at least right now. We'll see what he does in the second half.

 

[daver]

He is pacing for 128 points in 82 games. How many do you think he should be on pace for? 150?

What does this have to do with making excuses for him?

 

[Future GOAT]

I'm not so sure about that. Is Kucherov really that far below Ovechkin or Malkin at their best right now? Is MacKinnon really worse than Henrik Sedin?

No not at all, if anything McDavid has more competition than Crosby ever did.. just because those guys including Crosby aren't good enough to be McDavid's competition today doesn't mean there isn't anyone else to take their place.

 

[Johnnybegood13]

Goals scored:

TB 174
Calgary 153
Colorado 144
Edmonton 114

One is not like the other lol

If Edmonton had a 174 goals...Connor would have 93 pts.

It doesn't work that way, If Edmonton had 174 goals McDavid would have better teammate's on other lines and would play less, Kucherov plays four less minutes a game than Connor because the team can win without him being played hard minutes.

 

[Turin]

Goals scored:

TB 174
Calgary 153
Colorado 144
Edmonton 114

One is not like the other lol

If Edmonton had a 174 goals...Connor would have 93 pts.

That’s not how any of this works.

 

[GlitchMarner]

What does this have to do with making excuses for him?

He doesn't need excuses. He's actually doing very well. I guess some people do get carried away with saying how he would do in certain situations, but he's not the first major star to get that type of treatment ("how many goals would Ovechkin have scored in the 80s? etc). Some of it is simply context. For example, if you did a poll asking who is better offensively between Point and Crosby, I bet a lot of people would say that Crosby is because he plays with worse linemates/on a worse team etc even though their stats are similar. This is sort of thing is pretty common.

 

[Sky04]

Goals scored:

TB 174
Calgary 153
Colorado 144
Edmonton 114

One is not like the other lol

If Edmonton had a 174 goals...Connor would have 93 pts.

I'm struggling to comphrehend how someone with a brain came to this conclusion.

 

[bobbyking]

The bottom line is that 2019 MacK is pretty much on the same level offensively at 2010 H. Sedin... at least right now. We'll see what he does in the second half.

The canucks were stacked this is clearly not the same situation in Colorado

 

[GlitchMarner]

The canucks were stacked this is clearly not the same situation in Colorado

The Avs have a stacked top line that's been doing major damage all season. In terms of output, MacKinnon is on the same level as Sedin was that season. As a pure talent, I guess he could be even better.

 

[BallardEra]

People still need to remember that we have half a season left to go.

I honestly feel this scoring race will come right down to the last weekend of the season in determining a winner.

 

[jeffff]

It doesn't work that way, If Edmonton had 174 goals McDavid would have better teammate's on other lines and would play less, Kucherov plays four less minutes a game than Connor because the team can win without him being played hard minutes.

That’s not how any of this works.

I'm struggling to comphrehend how someone with a brain came to this conclusion.

Lol I know that isn’t how it works but where is the line? He’s averaging 53.5% of the Oilers goals at 114.

120, 130, 140...where? No one knows.

TB have scored 60 more goals than Edmonton.

My point was can you imagine if how many points Mcdavid would have. Even if he figured in a lousy 40% of the 60...that is 24 more points than he has now.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Imagine if the Oilers had the Aves and Bruins top lines. That's another 100 goals scored easily. So McDavid would have almost double his current points.

Oilers should consider trading for MacGinnon and Rantenen.

 

[daver]

He doesn't need excuses. He's actually doing very well. I guess some people do get carried away with saying how he would do in certain situations, but he's not the first major star to get that type of treatment ("how many goals would Ovechkin have scored in the 80s? etc). Some of it is simply context. For example, if you did a poll asking who is better offensively between Point and Crosby, I bet a lot of people would say that Crosby is because he plays with worse linemates/on a worse team etc even though their stats are similar. This is sort of thing is pretty common.

That's fine to add context when two players have similar production but when a player is moved up to another player's level, a level that they had never been on before, that is getting into the realm of baseless speculation.

 

[Hint1k]

So McDavid would have almost double his current points.

Crosby with Pens has 1.29 ppg.
Crosby with team Canada has 1.27 ppg.

Following your logic: 1.29 * 2 = 1.27, right?