Art Ross thread (2018/19)

[GlitchMarner]

Kucherov: 69 points
Rantanen: 65 points
MacKinnon: 63 points
McDavid: 61 points
Gaudreau: 61 points

 

[AvsFan29]

Kucherov: 69 points
Rantanen: 65 points
MacKinnon: 63 points
McDavid: 61 points
Gaudreau: 61 points

Amazing. Players will be hitting 80 by game 50.

Unless Kucherov does it next game

 

[koyvoo]

Amazing. Players will be hitting 80 by game 50.

Unless Kucherov does it next game

Considering his current form and that fact that he’ll be facing either Jones or Dell, 11 pts might not actually be out of the question.

 

[AvsFan29]

Considering his current form and that fact that he’ll be facing either Jones or Dell, 11 pts might not actually be out of the question.

Tampa is just cranking out the goals for the last 6 weeks. Obviously Kucherov is a phenomenal player, but when you have Kucherov catching fire, and playing on such a crazy offensive team, it's the perfect situation to produce a boatload of points. It'll be tough for some guys to keep up with him, if Tampa stays hot.

I don't any reason for them to slow down.

 

[daver]

You don't think having Hedman, Stralman and McDonagh feed you the puck is advantageous at all over getting the puck from Klefbom, Nurse or Russell?

Who the hell knows or cares? It's baseless speculation. All these excuses for McDavid not leading in points are an insult to him. He is a great player for his age, likely to accomplish things considerably better than any of the other current Top 5 scorers but that doesn't mean he automatically is the best in the league in any given season.

I an going to paste this in every thread when the linemate excuse is brought up:

"Great players produce regardless and make their teammates better. Why can't McDavid elevate his teammates like these other players ahead of him do?"

 

[daver]

Dave is the same guy that used to cry about Crosby's linemates and project how many more points he'd have with better wingers.

Being a Homer and fanboy is one thing. People lying and being hypocriticalis another.

Nice strawman to justify the McDavid whining. Never liked the linemate argument for Crosby and have never projected that he'd have more points with better wingers. He has proven he can produce regardless of linemates which allows his team to load up 2nd and 3rd lines which has contributed greatly to their team success.

If McDavid is as good as some are making him out to be, he will show he can do the same.

 

[JoVel]

Who the hell knows or cares? It's baseless speculation. All these excuses for McDavid not leading in points are an insult to him. He is a great player for his age, likely to accomplish things considerably better than any of the other current Top 5 scorers but that doesn't mean he automatically is the best in the league in any given season.

I an going to paste this in every thread when the linemate excuse is brought up:

"Great players produce regardless and make their teammates better. Why can't McDavid elevate his teammates like these other players ahead of him do?"

This so much. We get it. McDavid is the best player in the world, everyone knows that. That doesn't mean you have to start whining and making excuses whenever another player gets a few more points than him.

 

[ricky0034]

Nice strawman to justify the McDavid whining. Never liked the linemate argument for Crosby and have never projected that he'd have more points with better wingers. He has proven he can produce regardless of linemates which allows his team to load up 2nd and 3rd lines which has contributed greatly to their team success.

If McDavid is as good as some are making him out to be, he will show he can do the same.

and if he can't well he's won the past two Art Rosses so that's gotta be worth like a decade worth of grace period

 

[Bank Shot]

"Great players produce regardless and make their teammates better. Why can't McDavid elevate his teammates like these other players ahead of him do?"

He does elevate his linemates. This is a proven fact. Go to any stats website that shows with/without stats and you will see that everyone that plays with McDavid has a big boost in their scoring rates when they are with him.

I mean he's not turning Nurse into Hedman or anything, but I don't really see that as a realistic expectation.

Have a handful of great players and everyone elevates each other.

 

[daver]

He does elevate his linemates. This is a proven fact. Go to any stats website that shows with/without stats and you will see that everyone that plays with McDavid has a big boost in their scoring rates when they are with him.

I mean he's not turning Nurse into Hedman or anything, but I don't really see that as a realistic expectation.

Have a handful of great players and everyone elevates each other.

McDavid had a better team than Kucherov in 16/17 including a better offense and yet Kucherov was close to McDavid in PPG. It should be no surprise that Kucherov can produce better than McDavid regardless of teammates. They seem to be very close at this point in generating offense.

 

[duul]

Oh how I long for the days of McDavid being given a clean breakout pass. Don't think he has had one yet this year. Imagine being fed passes by Hedman, Stralman, Mcdonagh. Three defencemen who are all considerably better than anyone the Oilers have.

Being fed passes with speed exiting the zone would make a gigantic difference. We see McDavid get this opportunity 1-2x a game strictly off of broken plays or a flip into the sky by our D that bounces over their teams sticks luckily.

I see Kucherov receive at least 15-20 of these clean breakout passes a game. It's night and day and likely the biggest reason why the scoring race is the way it is.

 

[Bank Shot]

McDavid had a better team than Kucherov in 16/17 including a better offense and yet Kucherov was close to McDavid in PPG. It should be no surprise that Kucherov can produce better than McDavid regardless of teammates. They seem to be very close at this point in generating offense.

He hasn't produced better than McDavid regardless of teammates at any point though. Last season the Lightning scored 60 more goals than the Oilers and McDavid still beat him in points.

This season the Lightning are on pace to score 120 more goals than the Oilers. I think Tampa will slow down and Mcdavid will pass Kucherov again like last year.

Kucherov will get the benefit of the doubt once he has an Art Ross.

 

[daver]

He hasn't produced better than McDavid regardless of teammates at any point though. Last season the Lightning scored 60 more goals than the Oilers and McDavid still beat him in points.

This season the Lightning are on pace to score 120 more goals than the Oilers. I think Tampa will slow down and Mcdavid will pass Kucherov again like last year.

Kucherov will get the benefit of the doubt once he has an Art Ross.

No, he won't. The "put McDavid on Tampa" talk will get even worse if Kucherov wins the Ross.

As for this year, after 60 - 65 games should be a good barometer of how to value their seasons. It is very much looking like last year where McDavid hovered in the Top 5 in scoring while his team was battling for a playoff spot while Kucherov was at the top from Day 1 then potentially dialed it back before the playoffs.

I don't think there is an argument that he is close to, or on, McDavid's tier as an offensive producer. I don't mind considering secondary things like team strength, 2-way play, etc... to arguably give the edge to one player over another but not to the point where a player is moved up or down a tier.

 

[AvsFan29]

No, he won't. The "put McDavid on Tampa" talk will get even worse if Kucherov wins the Ross.

As for this year, after 60 - 65 games should be a good barometer of how to value their seasons. It is very much looking like last year where McDavid hovered in the Top 5 in scoring while his team was battling for a playoff spot while Kucherov was at the top from Day 1 then potentially dialed it back before the playoffs.

I don't think there is an argument that he is close to, or on, McDavid's tier as an offensive producer. I don't mind considering secondary things like team strength, 2-way play, etc... to arguably give the edge to one player over another but not to the point where a player is moved up or down a tier.

A lot of guys were saying "yah but imagine McDavid with a singer like Rantanen" etc when referring to MacKinnon/Rantanen.

You can't blame other players for the teams they are on. Instead of saying "imagine McDavid on Tampa!", they should be saying "imagine if Edmonton had better management". Edmonton has had better draft picks over any team in the league over the last 6-7 years.

Also, Drai isn't exactly bad company.

 

[Bank Shot]

A lot of guys were saying "yah but imagine McDavid with a singer like Rantanen" etc when referring to MacKinnon/Rantanen.
.

I never knew Rantanen was such a good singer.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Mcdavid winning 3/4 years and 3 straight will look damn good against Crosby 2/14 years. Although without injuries sid would have done the same. Thank God for Crosby’s back to back smythes

 

[Akrapovince]

Mcdavid winning 3/4 years and 3 straight will look damn good against Crosby 2/14 years. Although without injuries sid would have done the same. Thank God for Crosby’s back to back smythes

Sick to my stomach that we were robbed of potential historic seasons by injuries.

 

[Future GOAT]

Nice strawman to justify the McDavid whining. Never liked the linemate argument for Crosby and have never projected that he'd have more points with better wingers. He has proven he can produce regardless of linemates which allows his team to load up 2nd and 3rd lines which has contributed greatly to their team success.

If McDavid is as good as some are making him out to be, he will show he can do the same.

He already has I don't know why people are pretending he hasn't.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Mcdavid winning 3/4 years and 3 straight will look damn good against Crosby 2/14 years. Although without injuries sid would have done the same. Thank God for Crosby’s back to back smythes

Crosby led the League in points per game once in his first five seasons. It wasn't until his sixth season that he really pulled away from the competition for a few seasons. McDavid could do the same as he grows as a player.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I never knew Rantanen was such a good singer.

You should buy his album.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Who the hell knows or cares? It's baseless speculation. All these excuses for McDavid not leading in points are an insult to him. He is a great player for his age, likely to accomplish things considerably better than any of the other current Top 5 scorers but that doesn't mean he automatically is the best in the league in any given season.

I an going to paste this in every thread when the linemate excuse is brought up:

"Great players produce regardless and make their teammates better. Why can't McDavid elevate his teammates like these other players ahead of him do?"

I don't really see your point. You do realize that Crosby led the League in points and points per game once in his first five seasons, right? And that he hasn't led in points or PPG the last four seasons (including this one?) He's still been considered the best player or close to it for the majority of his career. I don't understand why you think McDavid should have to constantly lead the NHL in scoring, right from the beginning of every season until the end.

He's second in points per game this season at the half way mark. Kucherov is having an amazing season and is on pace for 138 points. I guess it's supposed to be disappointing that McDavid isn't outscoring a guy scoring at almost a 140 point clip on the best team in the League?

There is also half a season to go.

 

[daver]

I don't really see your point. You do realize that Crosby led the League in points and points per game once in his first five seasons, right? And that he hasn't led in points or PPG the last four seasons (including this one?) He's still been considered the best player or close to it for the majority of his career. I don't understand why you think McDavid should have to constantly lead the NHL in scoring, right from the beginning of every season until the end.

He's second in points per game this season at the half way mark. Kucherov is having an amazing season and is on pace for 138 points. I guess it's supposed to be disappointing that McDavid isn't outscoring a guy scoring at almost a 140 point clip on the best team in the League?

There is also half a season to go.

The point is these claims of inferior linemates, team etc... are a double-edged sword. He has a good linemate this year, he had a good team two years ago. He likely will be on a good team again and not see the expected jump in points. Just like he has not seen the expected jump in production this year with a jump in his PP points. ( and don't bother trying to play the "his PPG is better game"). He is also healthy this year after hearing how the flu slowed hoim down last year.

 

[GlitchMarner]

The point is these claims of inferior linemates, team etc... are a double-edged sword. He has a good linemate this year, he had a good team two years ago. He likely will be on a good team again and not see the expected jump in points. Just like he has not seen the expected jump in production this year with a jump in his PP points. ( and don't bother trying to play the "his PPG is better game"). He is also healthy this year after hearing how the flu slowed hoim down last year.

He is pacing for 128 points in 82 games. How many do you think he should be on pace for? 150?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby led the League in points per game once in his first five seasons. It wasn't until his sixth season that he really pulled away from the competition for a few seasons. McDavid could do the same as he grows as a player.

Mcdavid has also nowhere near the competion

 

[GlitchMarner]

Mcdavid has also nowhere near the competion

I'm not so sure about that. Is Kucherov really that far below Ovechkin or Malkin at their best right now? Is MacKinnon really worse than Henrik Sedin?