Around The NHL Discussion 2019/20 - Part II

[MissouriMook]

Which hit? The 2nd hit? I've seen some very odd reactions to getting hurt. I've had some myself, but not in this situation. Are you expecting VA to lay motionless after the hit?

I’m saying the physics of being pushed DOWN doesn’t easily lend itself to the object being pushed popping UP. Whenever I’ve fallen down or been pushed down, I’ve hit the surface and stayed there. Maybe a bit of a recoil. He looked like he got pushed down onto a trampoline.

It is hard to tell from that far away, but maybe it had to do with the position of his legs. I’m just saying that given his reputation as a serial diver, it is very plausible that he was embellishing again and injured himself doing so. That would in no way diminish the offense committed against him, I’m just not sure anyone should automatically draw a correlation between the suspendible offense and the injury.

 

[MissouriMook]

Blues really have been toeing the line this season....good or bad.

I still find it funny how hockey fans pine for ol time hockey, and celebrate the Vince Dunn hit(which technically is clean) when he broke a guys nose because of the head contact. Then they want to critique players for accidental plays...

Now the Bortuzzo is not borderline....its just a dirty hit. But....I wouldn't be surprisedto watch a bunch of hockey from 20yrs ago and see this happen all the time. I dont really know what to call it other then hypocrisy. People cry about every hit getting a hearing and call the league soft till it's their player getting hit or a team they dont like delivering the hit.

20-30 years ago that isn’t even a penalty. That was just a guy paying the price for getting on top of the opposing goalie. Play on.

 

[Dbrownss]

I’m saying the physics of being pushed DOWN doesn’t easily lend itself to the object being pushed popping UP. Whenever I’ve fallen down or been pushed down, I’ve hit the surface and stayed there. Maybe a bit of a recoil. He looked like he got pushed down onto a trampoline.

It is hard to tell from that far away, but maybe it had to do with the position of his legs. I’m just saying that given his reputation as a serial diver, it is very plausible that he was embellishing again and injured himself doing so. That would in no way diminish the offense committed against him, I’m just not sure anyone should automatically draw a correlation between the suspendible offense and the injury.

His reaction to me looks like someone just has something extremely painful happen. I don't think he's trying to sell anything. That looked like it hurt like hell.

 

[MissouriMook]

His reaction to me looks like someone just has something extremely painful happen. I don't think he's trying to sell anything. That looked like it hurt like hell.

He’s one of the most dishonest players in the league, and I am very reluctant to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Dbrownss]

He’s one of the most dishonest players in the league, and I am very reluctant to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Understandable, but given his lengthy injury, I'd say the crosscheck did something. I didnt watch the game, so I didn't see how he skated off.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

His reaction to me looks like someone just has something extremely painful happen. I don't think he's trying to sell anything. That looked like it hurt like hell.

Yeah, thank you. The dude was hurt by the hit and Bortuzzo deserves more punishment that what he got. That was a terrible decision he made.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I’m saying the physics of being pushed DOWN doesn’t easily lend itself to the object being pushed popping UP. Whenever I’ve fallen down or been pushed down, I’ve hit the surface and stayed there. Maybe a bit of a recoil. He looked like he got pushed down onto a trampoline.

The more I watched the replay, the more I think Bortz got right inbetween the back and pants. Arvidsson is almost completely vertical when Bortz brings his stick straight down. I think that pressure applied probably hyper extended a knee, which to me would explain the upwards jump to try and get his leg out from under himself.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The more I watched the replay, the more I think Bortz got right inbetween the back and pants. Arvidsson is almost completely vertical when Bortz brings his stick straight down. I think that pressure applied probably hyper extended a knee, which to me would explain the upwards jump to try and get his leg out from under himself.

I think you’re right. It also explains the injury time table better. I couldn’t make sense of that with a back injury.

 

[TK 421]

Yeah, thank you. The dude was hurt by the hit and Bortuzzo deserves more punishment that what he got. That was a terrible decision he made.

Further compounding the crosscheck is the dog and pony show known ironically as the Department of Player Safety which as it turns out is more concerned with players pay than safety.

Thanks a lot NHL for all the extra hate you caused by not handling this like you were actually interested in doing your job. Great rule limiting this to 4 games because you designated it a phone hearing, I'm sure no Preds players will attempt to injure our guys now. Anything that happens now is on you.

 

[Blueston]

Hopefully Peters has coached his last game. What a jerk.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Hopefully Peters has coached his last game. What a jerk.

I don't know if we want to open this door to witch-hunting from the past. Hockey has been a very 'white' game for a long time. And im sure some of our hockey heros a long the way have made some undesirable decisions that held up to todays 'standards' would cripple their legacies. Can't believe this cancel culture has now started to invade hockey. Everyone has made mistakes, and culture 10-20-30 years ago is different than what it is today. We should leave the past in the past, and focus on how people are acting present day and how we can make our future better.

 

[Blueston]

I don't know if we want to open this door to witch-hunting from the past. Hockey has been a very 'white' game for a long time. And im sure some of our hockey heros a long the way have made some undesirable decisions that held up to todays 'standards' would cripple their legacies. Can't believe this cancel culture has now started to invade hockey. Everyone has made mistakes, and culture 10-20-30 years ago is different than what it is today. We should leave the past in the past, and focus on how people are acting present day and how we can make our future better.

This is not what is happening. Nobody is going after Toe Blake or Lester Patrick. What Peters said 10 years ago was clearly wrong at the time. Kicking and hitting players while in Carolina was clearly wrong at the time. This isn’t revisionist. This is finally holding a bully responsible for damage has done.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

This is not what is happening. Nobody is going after Toe Blake or Lester Patrick. What Peters said 10 years ago was clearly wrong at the time. Kicking and hitting players while in Carolina was clearly wrong at the time. This isn’t revisionist. This is finally holding a bully responsible for damage has done.

Victim culture is here, whether we all want to admit it or not. I wont be surprised if other past players step forward with stories now that they have a voice.

 

[Dbrownss]

It was a coach calling a player the N word several times, And abusing players.....f*** Bill Peters, sometimes your past catches up with you.

 

[Blueston]

Victim culture is here, whether we all want to admit it or not. I wont be surprised if other past players step forward with stories now that they have a voice.

Victim culture? What does that even mean?

 

[Dbrownss]

Victim culture? What does that even mean?

I guess were living in a time where people in power are being held accountable for their actions instead of the "that's just the way it is"

 

[LetsGoBooze]

It was a coach calling a player the N word several times. **** Bill Peters, sometimes your past catches up with you.

See the story is already changing, i read he was asking a player to turn off the N-word music, multiple times. My overall point is look how many people have judged him already, and there hasn't even been a full investigation and he's already suspended from his job. What if in the future a player who is pissed at a coach from his past for whatever reason, getting cut, not getting playing time etc.... makes up a story a long these lines? Will that coach immediately be suspended? Everyone should get due process. Everyone.

 

[Blueston]

See the story is already changing, i read he was asking a player to turn off the N-word music, multiple times. My overall point is look how many people have judged him already, and there hasn't even been a full investigation and he's already suspended from his job. What if in the future a player who is pissed at a coach from his past for whatever reason, getting cut, not getting playing time etc.... makes up a story a long these lines? Will that coach immediately be suspended? Everyone should get due process. Everyone.

Multiple players have confirmed Alius account. Other players have come forward with other allegations. If victim culture means we finally listen to and support victims rather than their abusers then I say it’s about time.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I just hope Calgary did a deep investigation prior to the suspension, because even if anything gets proven false, once you suspend someone for these type of allegations i don't see how you can turn back.

 

[Blueston]

I just hope Calgary did a deep investigation prior to the suspension, because even if anything gets proven false, once you suspend someone for these type of allegations i don't see how you can turn back.

I would be shocked if he coaches for them again. Suspect at this point they are trying to find way to not pay rest of contract after they fire him.

 

[simon IC]

Victim culture is here, whether we all want to admit it or not. I wont be surprised if other past players step forward with stories now that they have a voice.

Is it indeed a "Victim Culture", or has education simply set higher standards as to what is socially acceptable? Just because our societal norms were more permissive in regards to things like racism and sexism in the past does not mean hurtful words and actions committed then should be dismissed.

 

[Dbrownss]

See the story is already changing, i read he was asking a player to turn off the N-word music, multiple times. My overall point is look how many people have judged him already, and there hasn't even been a full investigation and he's already suspended from his job. What if in the future a player who is pissed at a coach from his past for whatever reason, getting cut, not getting playing time etc.... makes up a story a long these lines? Will that coach immediately be suspended? Everyone should get due process. Everyone.

I may have just misread it earlier today. So that may be my fault.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Is it indeed a "Victim Culture", or has education simply set higher standards as to what is socially acceptable? Just because our societal norms were more permissive in regards to things like racism and sexism in the past does not mean hurtful words and actions committed then should be dismissed.

That's just it, no one is perfect. Everyone could be put on blast for something they did wrong at some point in their life, because somewhere someone could be offended by literally anything. Im not saying Peters is innocent at all, i just want him afforded due process. If Calgary indeed did do a full investigation and found physical abuse among the things Peters has done, then they should have just fired him to start. The whole suspension thing is just an odd way to handle it..

 

[Blueston]

That's just it, no one is perfect. Everyone could be put on blast for something they did wrong at some point in their life, because somewhere someone could be offended by literally anything. Im not saying Peters is innocent at all, i just want him afforded due process. If Calgary indeed did do a full investigation and found physical abuse among the things Peters has done, then they should have just fired him to start. The whole suspension thing is just an odd way to handle it..

Suspending employee while you conduct investigation is not uncommon. It’s untenable to have him coaching until/unless you clear him but don’t want to fire him until you are confident you have full understanding. In this case have to think he is done there after additional revelations today. Flames presumably building case to not pay him remainder of contract.

 

[simon IC]

That's just it, no one is perfect. Everyone could be put on blast for something they did wrong at some point in their life, because somewhere someone could be offended by literally anything. Im not saying Peters is innocent at all, i just want him afforded due process. If Calgary indeed did do a full investigation and found physical abuse among the things Peters has done, then they should have just fired him to start. The whole suspension thing is just an odd way to handle it..

I agree completely about due process. Keep in mind, Peters has been suspended, not terminated. It could well be that the team had no choice in suspending him pending an investigation. In could be a team policy, or even a league policy. If someone was accused of a racist slur at my workplace, I could see management suspending the employee immediately while they find out what happened. It is a pretty serious allegation. If Peters has done nothing wrong, hopefully an investigation will clear his name and he will be reinstated.