OT: Around the NHL - CONGRATS ST. LOUIS BLUES!

[Gurglesons]

Except Drai is way better than Guentzel. It'd be like if the Pens continually stacked Geno with Sid for their entire careers. They'd have sick numbers, but the team would suffer as a whole. They'd be better off splitting them. Elite centers at their ages should be able to elevate average talent.

I’d argue it is more McDavid being much better than Crosby..

 

[Gurglesons]

Pens depth was no better in the early years. They were built the same. Strong down the middle. Diff is Crosby made guys like Dupuis better. McDavid needs a center on his line to produce...taking the center depth advantage away.

Edmonton doesn’t have any winger close to Tyler Kennedy let alone Cooke, Kunitz and Dupuis.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Edmonton doesn’t have any winger close to Tyler Kennedy let alone Cooke, Kunitz and Dupuis.

Those guys were great on other teams? Other than Kunitz they were nothing special...OUR centers made them what they were.

But Im guessing youll turn this into a 3 page debtate arguing the opposite and how Drai/McDavid have the worst wingers in NHL history(avoiding the truth that EDM simply stacks the top line with either RNH/Drai to help McDavid when they should all be on their own lines) so Ill stop now to not derail this thread

 

[Gurglesons]

Those guys were great on other teams? Other than Kunitz they were nothing special...OUR centers made them what they were.

But Im guessing youll turn this into a 3 page debtate arguing the opposite and how Drai/McDavid have the worst wingers in NHL history(avoiding the truth that EDM simply stacks the top line with either RNH/Drai to help McDavid when they should all be on their own lines) so Ill stop now to not derail this thread

Dupuis, Kunitz and Cooke were all 30-50 pt guys on other teams. Edmonton is acquiring the Aberg and Chiassons of the world.

 

[Turin]

Pens depth was no better in the early years. They were built the same. Strong down the middle. Diff is Crosby made guys like Dupuis better. McDavid needs a center on his line to produce...taking the center depth advantage away.

He doesn’t need a centre on his line, but Edmonton is babysitting him and Drai. Edmonton’s winger depth is worse than Pittsburgh’s ever was, which is saying a lot.

 

[wej20]

He doesn’t need a centre on his line, but Edmonton is babysitting him and Drai. Edmonton’s winger depth is worse than Pittsburgh’s ever was, which is saying a lot.

Chiasson - 3rd/4th liner
Neal - should score 20 with McDavid and Draisaitl.
Gagner - 4th liner/PP specialist. Will put up OK points on bad teams.
Kassian - 4th liner
Khaira - 4th liner
Granlund - 4th liner
Archibald - 4th liner
Jurco - AHLer
Cave - 13th Forward
Nygard - Complete unknown.
Puljujärvi - Bust, maybe turns it around on a team that isn't the Oilers.

That is some disgustingly, bad forward depth after McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH. Pretty much 4th liners and guys who should probably be in the AHL/Europe. Defense is pretty trash too and if Koskinen starts performing like a backup then they are going to continue to be junk for the foreseeable future.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

McDavid would be sufficiently dangerous with others. The problem is that their winger depth is so bad that Drai probably can’t carry a line with two third/fourth liners.

I think Neal was a smart move on their part, he's a gunner with a lethal shot and he hasn't been put in that spot with the Flames at all and obviously struggled. You can't get a pure sniper and then hope he elevates a line when he's not with an elite C, he's just that type of player. The failure of Neal was in large part, the Flames fault.

Lucic on the other hand is a dinosaur in a tech aged world. The guy is slow, isn't a great shooter or playmaker and he's not that great of a fighter anymore. He's worse than guys like Clarkson etc at this point in his career. If the Flames can get 40pts out of him, that's a win. I suspect it'll be closer to 30ish pts unless he manifests some back issue and is done on LTIR for cap relief after year 1.

But adding Neal was smart, the Oilers success depends on McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH being on 3 different lines with supporting wingers. The fact that they have never figured that shit out until this year is hilarious af. \


I know Marleau wants to be in California, but if the Oilers can get him there on a 1yr contract, that would also be smart. He can still skate and would be a good compliment to Draisaitl.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Chiasson - 3rd/4th liner
Neal - should score 20 with McDavid and Draisaitl.
Gagner - 4th liner/PP specialist. Will put up OK points on bad teams.
Kassian - 4th liner
Khaira - 4th liner
Granlund - 4th liner
Archibald - 4th liner
Jurco - AHLer
Cave - 13th Forward
Nygard - Complete unknown.
Puljujärvi - Bust, maybe turns it around on a team that isn't the Oilers.

That is some disgustingly, bad forward depth after McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH. Pretty much 4th liners and guys who should probably be in the AHL/Europe. Defense is pretty trash too and if Koskinen starts performing like a backup then they are going to continue to be junk for the foreseeable future.

Eh...

Neal - He will score 30 goals on the team, his C options are McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH, all 3 are very very good playmakers.
Gagner - Is a 3rd liner at best, if he can be a solid RW, he could be a very good 3rd line option for them.
Kassian - 4th liner
Khaira - 4th liner
Granlund - I think he's a decent 3rd line player, the thing is, if you have him there, you need a physical option on the other side, he's not particularly physical - if he's your LW, you need Kassian as the RW.
Archibald - 4th liner
Jurco - I think he might surprise a few people. I know he had some really bad back issues and wanted to show he can still be healthy and did just that.
Cave - 13th Forward
Nygard - Complete unknown, agreed.
Puljujärvi - Should have been moved a while ago already, he wants out 100%...why be a dick about it? He has every right to want out of that shit show.

Now Chiasson...this guy was going to be another "Neal type" when the Stars were a winger factory. The guy can score 20 goals, he can skate, he's not particularly good at anything else, which is why he's a Neal type. If you keep him in the top 6, you'll get another 20 goal season out of him, not a bad thing. \

But they have far too many bottom 6 wingers and not enough complimentary top 6 wingers.

Neal and Chiasson are not the best options, they're not bad though given what they can accomplish with that set of C's. The issue is, will they finally split the 3 up and keep McDavid, Drai, and RNH on 3 different lines to get a balanced attack or will they stack the top 6 and get owned again.

 

[dogthateats]

Damn. Murray is going to make a ton too.

 

[Peat]

Damn. Murray is going to make a ton too.

****. That'll be the comparable Murray's camp keeps bringing up. We were okay when he could only point to Gibson and Hellbuyck, but this might have just ****ed us.

That's an insane offer in general too imo.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Damn. Murray is going to make a ton too.

You can't pay goalies this much in today's game

Most I'd shell out for a goalie right now at the top of his game is ~$6.5M

 

[Randy Butternubs]

You can't pay goalies this much in today's game

Most I'd shell out for a goalie right now at the top of his game is ~$6.5M

8% of the cap is the most you'd go for a Vezina winning goalie?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

8% of the cap is the most you'd go for a Vezina winning goalie?

Goalies are pretty fungible- especially for a team that is as stacked as the Lightning
Take the most average goalie in the league and put him on Tampa and you'd get only marginally worse results

 

[Randy Butternubs]

ΓyceB to NJ confirmed.

 

[Turin]

Weird how Vasi got that but everybody else stays in Tampa for a song. I’m not paying Murray a penny over 7.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This seems like a strange time in league history to be carting in entire wheelbarrows full of cash for goaltending.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I hope Vasi and Bob are trash next year just so their respective teams fans freak out. Both Vezina caliber goalies, however i can't help but see the possibility of a Bryzgalov style failure with one or both of them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I should have clarified. My point was that McDavid/Drai makes too much sense to break up.

Exactly. The issue is they masquerade McDavid as a center, but in reality, he's a glorified winger that benefits from the 2-way play of RNH and Drai when he's with them, they seemed to be content with him just racking up points, not really winning them games, but more so, getting his multi-point night in a loss.

Now with a new GM, they've hoarded a boat load of bottom 6 wingers and flopped Lucic for Neal and some buyouts. Oh and then got the biggest flopper for their goalie mentor.

 

[BHD]

Exactly. The issue is they masquerade McDavid as a center, but in reality, he's a glorified winger that benefits from the 2-way play of RNH and Drai when he's with them, they seemed to be content with him just racking up points, not really winning them games, but more so, getting his multi-point night in a loss.

Now with a new GM, they've hoarded a boat load of bottom 6 wingers and flopped Lucic for Neal and some buyouts. Oh and then got the biggest flopper for their goalie mentor.

Sorry, I can’t get on board with this take.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sorry, I can’t get on board with this take.

Drai and RNH do the grunt work to make McDavid's dreams work.

 

[BHD]

Drai and RNH do the grunt work to make McDavid's dreams work.

Anything to disparage the greatness of McDavid.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Anything to disparage the greatness of McDavid.

The kid is good, I will never admit otherwise. I will admit however, that they do him a disservice by not making him the C on his line and flank him with wingers and separate Draisaitl to his own line and RNH to his own to add depth and support via 3 lines that can rotate and wreak havoc.

Did you think I thought he was bad? I think he looks weird like he smells like cat piss, but the guy is the best player in the game right now.

McDavid will never be a well rounded player when other players are doing the things he should be learning to do.

 

[Gurglesons]

Weird how Vasi got that but everybody else stays in Tampa for a song. I’m not paying Murray a penny over 7.

Love Murray, but have to agree.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I like that Gusev trade, I think the Devils will be a hell of a team to watch next season with the group they've put together. I still despise Pk Shutthehellupban but the rest of that team is going to be a fun bunch to watch.

Vatanen, Hall, Hischier, Hughes, Gusev, Simmonds, Bratt, Palmieri, and Miles of Wood...that's a fun team with speed and some size there. Shero might have finally figured out how to assemble a solid group of forwards. That D though...skeptical.

Vatanen
Subban
Greene
Severson
Butcher
Carrick
Mueller

The top 5 are all solid puck movers, but they lack some snarl on that back end. They might have the most puck moving defensemen on a team, very Nashville-like. Maybe Shero remembered some good stuff.

The only issue I see is Hynes...can he actually make them fun?

Love Murray, but have to agree.

Anything over 7 for a goalie is just stupid.

 

[Peat]

Goalies are pretty fungible- especially for a team that is as stacked as the Lightning
Take the most average goalie in the league and put him on Tampa and you'd get only marginally worse results

Problem is nobody's knowingly giving them a goaltender that they know can regularly be average, because no team has enough of them.

I don't really agree with giving goalies this much money, particularly RFA ones, but nor do I think there's enough average goaltenders around to be as cavalier with them as some here seem to want to be.