Around the League Thread | Summer Vacation

[arttk]

What actions constitute a rebuild?
Taking on a bunch of bad contracts for picks?

Now that Yzerman has his picks in the lineup the time to be really bad is over. Beingnworst netted them Raymond and then they landed Evindsson, Kasper, and Danielson, ASP. Defence looks promising. Don’t think they have enough offensively.

21 and 22 were the years for the wings to bottom out like they did in 2020. Not doing that anymore.

ummmm not sure what your point is

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

i think people here are just invested in detroit being mismanaged because it makes the hronek deal a lot more palatable. if yzerman is bad then giving up on hronek is a mistake. if yzerman is good then giving up on hronek is ???. no one cared about yzerman or detroit on this board pre-hronek deal but lots of posters are weirdly invested in detroit "failing" since the deal

as for their actual direction they're doing fine? they've got edvinsson, kasper, soderblom, wallinder and mazur all pushing for spots as early as this season and seider, raymond, rasmussen, veleno, berggren and debrincat are all established nhl u25 u26 players of qualities varying from star to solid depth player. then they've got danielson and asp as very good prospects who are a little further out

they've got a lot of money tied up in middling veterans like copp, compher, chiarot, holl, fabbri and perron but those deals are all either short term or pretty reasonable. copp at 5.6m isn't great but it's better than garland at 4.95 or boeser at 6.65. chiarot and holl's deals expire when edvinsson, mazur and wallinder's elcs are up. perron and gotisbehere expire when seider and raymond are up. fabbri and maata are up in two years when soderblom is up. and they've got like 6m in cap space still if they want to add. detroit has one of the best cap sheets in the whole league and that's despite having some not great deals on the books

would detroit look better if they had like rossi or lundell instead of raymond or hughes or dobson instead of zadina? well yeah. but they're doing pretty okay regardless?

The Hronek deal was always going to be a 1st round pick +.......25 year old top 4 RHD's dont become available very often...Most people here are not saying Yzerman is 'bad', merely pointing out the perils of a rebuilding team when you've struck out on cornerstone elite players...He did all the correct things a GM is supposed to do in a rebuild.

This is a results based business though, and the results are not there.

They have some good players coming up , but not enough elite impact players...They have now deviated from the rebuild, and are going for it...Is there enough there to get them over the hump ?......Thats the question.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

It won’t be for long.

McDavid’s next deal is gonna be like $16+M. Are people gonna call him overpaid because he hasn’t won a Cup?

If you mosey over to the mainboards we both know that there are lot's of people who (erroneously) will.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Id wager nearly all of this yzerman bashing is going to look pretty stupid sooner than later.

Only in Canucks rose colored hopium land is Yzerman failing badly 4 years in, but alvin is amazing and Canucks are in great shape almost 2 years in.

I've never seen a strawman so artfully destroyed.

Yzerman has had a lot of people slobbering over him for years and in Tampa that looked very warranted.

I have nothing against Yzerman, I loved him as a player but find opinions on these boards often get a bit cultish with GMs where one guys is always great and a genius and the other guy is a pathetic joke and can't tie his own shoes. There's nuance and a lot of it comes down to opportunity.

Yzerman had an incredible scouting team in Tampa, I believe Al Murray is the head of scouting there, and he knew enough to defer to the right people.

In Detroit, he made an executive decision and chose Seider when nobody else knew his potential.

Moves like these buy a lot of goodwill and admiration from fans.

But they, like everything in sports, are also victims to circumstances and luck.

Now in Detroit they've had similar lottery luck as we have but have failed to parlay it into the elite talent that we've found (aside from Seider) and suddenly Yzerman looks like only a decent GM flailing around signing guys like Compher for 5 years at an inflated ticket.

None of this is people saying Yzerman is worse than Benning, nor are people saying that we have enough info to this point to compare Allvin favourably to Yzerman.

But people are understandably happy with a lot of what Allvin has done (especially since the bar is set at 'didn't blow out his brains on a mediocre player cough-Compher-cough on July 1st', while simultanously some of the bloom is coming off of Yzerman.

Nobody is saying all hail Allvin and lol Yzerman sux XD.

 

[Tob]

i think people here are just invested in detroit being mismanaged because it makes the hronek deal a lot more palatable. if yzerman is bad then giving up on hronek is a mistake. if yzerman is good then giving up on hronek is ???. no one cared about yzerman or detroit on this board pre-hronek deal but lots of posters are weirdly invested in detroit "failing" since the deal

as for their actual direction they're doing fine? they've got edvinsson, kasper, soderblom, wallinder and mazur all pushing for spots as early as this season and seider, raymond, rasmussen, veleno, berggren and debrincat are all established nhl u25 u26 players of qualities varying from star to solid depth player. then they've got danielson and asp as very good prospects who are a little further out

they've got a lot of money tied up in middling veterans like copp, compher, chiarot, holl, fabbri and perron but those deals are all either short term or pretty reasonable. copp at 5.6m isn't great but it's better than garland at 4.95 or boeser at 6.65. chiarot and holl's deals expire when edvinsson, mazur and wallinder's elcs are up. perron and gotisbehere expire when seider and raymond are up. fabbri and maata are up in two years when soderblom is up. and they've got like 6m in cap space still if they want to add. detroit has one of the best cap sheets in the whole league and that's despite having some not great deals on the books

would detroit look better if they had like rossi or lundell instead of raymond or hughes or dobson instead of zadina? well yeah. but they're doing pretty okay regardless?

Also a bit of a cautionary tale to never rebuild angle because even the great Steve Whyzerman is floundering in year 4.

 

[Nick Lang]

i think people here are just invested in detroit being mismanaged because it makes the hronek deal a lot more palatable. if yzerman is bad then giving up on hronek is a mistake. if yzerman is good then giving up on hronek is ???. no one cared about yzerman or detroit on this board pre-hronek deal but lots of posters are weirdly invested in detroit "failing" since the deal

as for their actual direction they're doing fine? they've got edvinsson, kasper, soderblom, wallinder and mazur all pushing for spots as early as this season and seider, raymond, rasmussen, veleno, berggren and debrincat are all established nhl u25 u26 players of qualities varying from star to solid depth player. then they've got danielson and asp as very good prospects who are a little further out

they've got a lot of money tied up in middling veterans like copp, compher, chiarot, holl, fabbri and perron but those deals are all either short term or pretty reasonable. copp at 5.6m isn't great but it's better than garland at 4.95 or boeser at 6.65. chiarot and holl's deals expire when edvinsson, mazur and wallinder's elcs are up. perron and gotisbehere expire when seider and raymond are up. fabbri and maata are up in two years when soderblom is up. and they've got like 6m in cap space still if they want to add. detroit has one of the best cap sheets in the whole league and that's despite having some not great deals on the books

would detroit look better if they had like rossi or lundell instead of raymond or hughes or dobson instead of zadina? well yeah. but they're doing pretty okay regardless?

Yeah it does seem like this is some weird form of misdirected anger or proof of concept thing going on here. Like most people here last year I never cared much one way or the other about a rebuilding lower/middle of the pack team from the East that the Canucks haven't seen in a playoff game in over 20 years or something.

Id wager nearly all of this yzerman bashing is going to look pretty stupid sooner than later.

Only in Canucks rose colored hopium land is Yzerman failing badly 4 years in, but alvin is amazing and Canucks are in great shape almost 2 years in.

I mean we did finish 3 points above them last year lol. We'll see what happens but I also feel Yzerman is going to pull off something yet. He always seemed like a smart hockey mind all through his post playing days. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt where as it appears lots of people are writing them off. If we can do it so can they. They have a lot of assets if they play their cards right, like a lot of teams.

 

[The Stig]

Also a bit of a cautionary tale to never rebuild angle because even the great Steve Whyzerman is floundering in year 4.

I'm so torn on the rebuild strategy. If you look at the past cup winners and finalists, how many actually went full rebuild and then got to the cup? Chicago and Pittsburgh? Kings were never at the bottom of the division, let alone league. Tampa has only missed the playoffs 6 times since 2003, Boston only missed the playoffs 3 times between 2000 and winning the cup in 2011. Look at Florida. They were built through trades and free agency signings.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I'm so torn on the rebuild strategy. If you look at the past cup winners and finalists, how many actually went full rebuild and then got to the cup? Chicago and Pittsburgh? Kings were never at the bottom of the division, let alone league. Tampa has only missed the playoffs 6 times since 2003, Boston only missed the playoffs 3 times between 2000 and winning the cup in 2011. Look at Florida. They were built through trades and free agency signings.

Av's bottomed out.

 

[The Stig]

Av's bottomed out.

But was it a rebuild? Did they sell assets for picks? They bottomed out with Landaskog and MacKinnon on the team already. They retooled around an existing core.

 

[StreetHawk]

But was it a rebuild? Did they sell assets for picks? They bottomed out with Landaskog and MacKinnon on the team already. They retooled around an existing core.

Agreed. in 16-17 when they were horrible, Landy was start year 6 while Mack was starting year 4. Be like the Canucks expecting to be bad this season with Petey in year 6 and Hughes in 5.

 

[RobertKron]

I'm so torn on the rebuild strategy. If you look at the past cup winners and finalists, how many actually went full rebuild and then got to the cup? Chicago and Pittsburgh? Kings were never at the bottom of the division, let alone league. Tampa has only missed the playoffs 6 times since 2003, Boston only missed the playoffs 3 times between 2000 and winning the cup in 2011. Look at Florida. They were built through trades and free agency signings.

The Kings may not have totally bottomed out, but they did finish last in their division a couple times, were one win away from bottom of the league in 08, and finished 3rd last in 07. Divisionally they mostly just had a hard time out-badding the Coyotes.

Between 03 and 08 the Kings had 4 extra first rounders, and they picked at #4, 2, 5 in 07-09. For a while there, they were absolutely hoarding draft picks in general. I think they made like 8 extra picks from 07-09.

 

[StreetHawk]

Also a bit of a cautionary tale to never rebuild angle because even the great Steve Whyzerman is floundering in year 4.

Can't expect him to replicate what happened in TB, when he took over in May 2010 and TB makes the finals vs Chicago in 2015, which was in 5 seasons. Det is not going to get to the finals this season, and I doubt would make the PO even.

Yzerman inherited Stamkos and Hedman. Which is vastly different than the group of Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, etc. that he got in Detroit.

Needs scouts to find prospects, development team to develop the players into pros, pros scouts to help with trades, and being a destination place for free agents to want to go to and remain.

Comes down to the team that he built in Detroit to help him in those areas.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Av's bottomed out.

twice

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

 

[andora]

But are the calgary flames worried about jacob markstrom

Tune in next week

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

But are the calgary flames worried about jacob markstrom

Tune in next week

Totally..Flames have one of (if not the) best goalie prospects in the league..Dustin Wolf.

Who knows?…there could be a buy out down the road for Marky.

 

[EpochLink]

The Calgary Flames should be worried about Jacob Markstrom.

 

[andora]

The Calgary Flames should be worried about Jacob Markstrom.

Copier

 

[EpochLink]

Copier

My bad y’all

 

[andora]

My bad y’all

I am from prince george - y'all works

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Actually, if they can take some of the workload off Markstrom and maybe share it with Wolfe, they could be sitting pretty.
Marky's problem is that he's not durable, at all. If he and Wolfe can make a 1A/1B rotation work, the Flames should be just fine. Wolfe gets experience and Markstrom lessens his chances of breaking down again.
I'm hoping the Canucks can do the same with Demko and Silovs.

 

[StreetHawk]

Actually, if they can take some of the workload off Markstrom and maybe share it with Wolfe, they could be sitting pretty.
Marky's problem is that he's not durable, at all. If he and Wolfe can make a 1A/1B rotation work, the Flames should be just fine. Wolfe gets experience and Markstrom lessens his chances of breaking down again.
I'm hoping the Canucks can do the same with Demko and Silovs.

Markstrom ideally maxes out a 2/3 the starts so around 54/55. If you want to cap him at 50 that’s fine. Probably about where he should land now with Wolfe taking 32.

For Silovs I think he still needs another year with a heavy workload. Want to get that in the A. Only 1 year of pro with a heavy load.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Markstrom ideally maxes out a 2/3 the starts so around 54/55. If you want to cap him at 50 that’s fine. Probably about where he should land now with Wolfe taking 32.

For Silovs I think he still needs another year with a heavy workload. Want to get that in the A. Only 1 year of pro with a heavy load.

We definitely need better backup to tide us over then, or reeeeally hope Martin gets his shit back together. Without someone to take 25 or more starts for Demko, he's going to break again.

 

[Peter Griffin]

For Silovs I think he still needs another year with a heavy workload. Want to get that in the A. Only 1 year of pro with a heavy load.

I think the plan with Silovs might be to try to take advantage of having the farm team in their backyard and get Silovs 50+ games split between Vancouver and Abbotsford. By the halfway point it wouldn’t surprise me if he was up full time with the Canucks though.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think the plan with Silovs might be to try to take advantage of having the farm team in their backyard and get Silovs 50+ games split between Vancouver and Abbotsford. By the halfway point it wouldn’t surprise me if he was up full time with the Canucks though.

Does that help a G to play behind aD he’s not familiar with?
Farm team in Abby is for the bottom end of the roster like 11-14 F or your 6-8 D. What I’d call your non prospects.

Shuffling a G not a great idea.