Around the League Thread | Summer Vacation

[krutovsdonut]

barry now has a benchmark to extend ep against. i wonder if the term is part of what he was waiting on.

 

[Peen]

I would be happy with that if I’m the Leafs, honestly

That team is in an interesting spot long term, and Matthews looked very questionable to me last year. At least at a bigger ticket.

 

[HairyKneel]

Im not making a player who's play falls off in the playoffs year after year the highest paid player in the league

His NMC just kicked in. What would you do? Let him walk to UFA?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Goodbye Nylander. Which was likely anyway.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Goodbye Nylander. Which was likely anyway.

Welcome to Vancouver (hopefully)

 

[Bubbles]

So much for my Lafreniere offer sheet proposal, lol.

Guy's getting paid less than his ELC.

 

[bossram]

Im not making a player who's play falls off in the playoffs year after year the highest paid player in the league

It won’t be for long.

McDavid’s next deal is gonna be like $16+M. Are people gonna call him overpaid because he hasn’t won a Cup?

 

[andora]

How so? It's probably below market value and takes him to his age 29 season. It's clear he wanted to keep his options open for his last big contract. I don't think any team could have convinced him to do otherwise.

That's a huge W for Toronto. They retain their franchise player for another 4 years - when it looked like there was a good chance he could walk - while barely changing their cap structure.

It's perfectly fair. IMO team friendly.


Yep. Cap hit is fine, could have been higher.

They keep their superstar for his prime years. That's what you want.

I think an 8 year deal would have been worse for Toronto. Run the risk of injury (which Matthews has had) and age-related decline.

Im not making a player who's play falls off in the playoffs year after year the highest paid player in the league

I would be happy with that if I’m the Leafs, honestly

That team is in an interesting spot long term, and Matthews looked very questionable to me last year. At least at a bigger ticket.

If you actually look at true 5 on 5 primary Point production which is pretty much the hardest to do in the most played game state- this contract actually pays Matthews less on the average that high-end players have been paid on their third contracts for his level of production which on post entry level if I remember correctly is second to Crosby if not tied

 

[HairyKneel]

Welcome to Vancouver (hopefully)

Lol how do the Canucks fit him in at the rumored 9- 10 million @ 7 or 8 years?

I guess Silovs is the starter and they push that bum Hronek out the door? Sell JT for garbage?

 

[arttk]

I just don't understand why you continue to compare these two scenarios as the only potential options.

You could just as easily argue that they *should* double-down on the rebuild, because they don't have any elite players in the system, aren't about to obtain them through the trade market with their lack of assets, will likely spend the next 3-5 years drafting after the top-7 picks, and they're not getting any value signing whatever stars make it to free agency.

Like, if we're just looking at binary outcomes, I'd overwhelmingly bet that neither Vancouver or Detroit make the 3rd round, much less win a Cup, in the next 5-7 years. Both paths are likely to "fail" - and a lot of the execution for either option comes down to luck.

Like, if Pettersson asks out next summer, we're in a worse position than Detroit and will need to try to squeeze ten cents on the dollar for Hughes, Miller, and Demko who will all be out the door. That doesn't mean that not doing a scorched earth rebuild and selling our two U25 superstars this summer is/was the wrong move.

Both directions depend on probabilities, and while I agree that the Canucks are proceeding in the right manner given the cards they hold, the next couple years are overwhelmingly likely to be a disappointing reality check for anyone that thinks retooling a team with elite prime age-talent is a sure thing and that tanks/rebuilds are basically impossible. (and to be clear - there is almost no one who thinks this, just as there are very few people who think the opposite).

You do know that ownership is actually a thing and no ownership will be like yeah let’s have a decade long rebuild. You guys do know that a decade is a really really f***ing long time right? The owner of Detroit aren’t exactly young.
Can you imagine the GM telling the owner that yeah we are going to rebuild and you might die before we are done but don’t worry we are going to do it right.

 

[JadedLeaf]

It’s a decent deal for the Leafs. Certainly not a home run. But now he’s there until he’s 30. I’m guessing it’s a full NMC. He’s a top 5 centre in the game turning 26. I’m just curious if his his wrist is 100%.

Petey is licking his lips and so is Big Leon.

Just a slight correction, he still has a year on his current deal so the 4 year deal would put him at 31 when he signs his next deal.

 

[Breakers]

$200+ million on career earnings for Matthews


Damn.

 

[Kryten]

$200+ million on career earnings for Matthews


Damn.

Including endorsements yes. Doubt he will sniff 200 from NHL contracts

 

[StreetHawk]

So, 9 years after his elc, Mathews gets $58.2 mill over 5 and $53 mill over 4 years. Total of $111.2 mill over 9 years. A 9 year AAV of $12.36 mill. Might as well have just done 8 years for $12 mill per coming off ELC.

 

[Breakers]

Including endorsements yes. Doubt he will sniff 200 from NHL contracts

I mean he’ll be over $115 million at the end of this deal

He could very easily get $11x8 at 31 years old and he’s crossed the $200 million threshold

 

[StreetHawk]

Including endorsements yes. Doubt he will sniff 200 from NHL contracts

Right now, only McDavid would hit $200 mill from NHL contracts. He will be under $110 mill at 29 when he's done his current deal.

J. Hughes won't hit $200 mill because he signed after year 2. Not even $70 mill when he's 29. He'd need to sign longer than 8 years to make $130 mill, as that is over $16 mill AAV.

MacKinnon was under $50 mill when he finished his 2nd contract at 28. Still under $150 mill when he's done this deal at 36.

Leon will be at $70 mill when he's 29. Is he getting $16 mill per when his deal is up in 2025? Not likely.

 

[credulous]

You do know that ownership is actually a thing and no ownership will be like yeah let’s have a decade long rebuild. You guys do know that a decade is a really really f***ing long time right? The owner of Detroit aren’t exactly young.
Can you imagine the GM telling the owner that yeah we are going to rebuild and you might die before we are done but don’t worry we are going to do it right.

58 (chris ilitch, altho i guess he does have older siblings and i guess his mom is probably the majority shareholder in the family trust) is pretty young as far as pro sports team owners go

anyways, this viewpoint confuses me because it seems to imply that you can just decide to be good and teams that are rebuilding are doing it because they don't want to be good. obviously every team wants to be competitive every single season but it's not really a matter of deciding it's time to stop sucking. in fact, if anything, i'd say the evidence is that teams that fail to recognize they're not competitive and make decisions as if they are is like the primary cause of teams not being competitive. other than maybe arizona and ottawa at times i can't think of any nhl teams that have intentionally chosen to make themselves worse for little/no future gain. i can think of lots that have made themselves worse by trying to make themselves better

 

[Nick Lang]

Lol how do the Canucks fit him in at the rumored 9- 10 million @ 7 or 8 years?

I guess Silovs is the starter and they push that bum Hronek out the door? Sell JT for garbage?

Garland
Beauvillier
Boeser
Mikeyhev

Not this year but next

How we get rid of them .. who knows.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Will probably see Draisaitl's and McDavids salaries leapfrog over Matthews..

In a perfect world , Drai leaves the Oilers in a couple of years to play out east.

 

[Nick Lang]

You do know that ownership is actually a thing and no ownership will be like yeah let’s have a decade long rebuild. You guys do know that a decade is a really really f***ing long time right? The owner of Detroit aren’t exactly young.
Can you imagine the GM telling the owner that yeah we are going to rebuild and you might die before we are done but don’t worry we are going to do it right.

So, instead of doing it the right way Billionaire owners are just going to make dumb decisions because they want to win now? I think it's most likely the opposite where they have the money, patience, and the experience to do it right. Not in Vancouver of course, where we like doing it the hard way. I don't think anyone signs off on a 10 year rebuild, or a 10 year re-tool at the onset. However if you run into problems sometimes you have no choice. Buffalo, Edmonton, Arizona, are several examples.

58 (chris ilitch, altho i guess he does have older siblings and i guess his mom is probably the majority shareholder in the family trust) is pretty young as far as pro sports team owners go

anyways, this viewpoint confuses me because it seems to imply that you can just decide to be good and teams that are rebuilding are doing it because they don't want to be good. obviously every team wants to be competitive every single season but it's not really a matter of deciding it's time to stop sucking. in fact, if anything, i'd say the evidence is that teams that fail to recognize they're not competitive and make decisions as if they are is like the primary cause of teams not being competitive. other than maybe arizona and ottawa at times i can't think of any nhl teams that have intentionally chosen to make themselves worse for little/no future gain. i can think of lots that have made themselves worse by trying to make themselves better

Yeah I'm also slightly confused too by this view. So can you just do a 3 year rebuild, or a 1 year rebuild? Doesn't make much sense. You would have a basic plan in place of course but you can't predict what place you'll finish in, who will win the lotteries, which players will be the best, if it will be a strong draft class, do you get lucky in the draft, or the exact year you can say the rebuild is over. Like has been mentioned here already, if Detroit is still struggling to make playoffs in 3-4 years I'd expect a mini rebuild or retool, whatever you want to call it.

 

[StreetHawk]

Will probably see Draisaitl's and McDavids salaries leapfrog over Matthews..

In a perfect world , Drai leaves the Oilers in a couple of years to play out east.

As they should. Looking at around $30 mill combined for those 2

 

[Vector]

Completely missed this yesterday.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I don't really see a 4M dman when watching Bouchard tbh

 

[MS]

I don't really see a 4M dman when watching Bouchard tbh

He had 36 points in 31 games after they traded Tyson Barrie - and looked terrific - and that will get you paid. Honestly I'm surprised he's signing for that little, even though his first 60 games of 22-23 was pretty crap.

If I'm Edmonton I would have signed a longer deal because he's probably going to score 60-70 points next year on that McDrai PP and his next contract is going to blow through the roof.

 

[arttk]

58 (chris ilitch, altho i guess he does have older siblings and i guess his mom is probably the majority shareholder in the family trust) is pretty young as far as pro sports team owners go

anyways, this viewpoint confuses me because it seems to imply that you can just decide to be good and teams that are rebuilding are doing it because they don't want to be good. obviously every team wants to be competitive every single season but it's not really a matter of deciding it's time to stop sucking. in fact, if anything, i'd say the evidence is that teams that fail to recognize they're not competitive and make decisions as if they are is like the primary cause of teams not being competitive. other than maybe arizona and ottawa at times i can't think of any nhl teams that have intentionally chosen to make themselves worse for little/no future gain. i can think of lots that have made themselves worse by trying to make themselves better

So, instead of doing it the right way Billionaire owners are just going to make dumb decisions because they want to win now? I think it's most likely the opposite where they have the money, patience, and the experience to do it right. Not in Vancouver of course, where we like doing it the hard way. I don't think anyone signs off on a 10 year rebuild, or a 10 year re-tool at the onset. However if you run into problems sometimes you have no choice. Buffalo, Edmonton, Arizona, are several examples.



Yeah I'm also slightly confused too by this view. So can you just do a 3 year rebuild, or a 1 year rebuild? Doesn't make much sense. You would have a basic plan in place of course but you can't predict what place you'll finish in, who will win the lotteries, which players will be the best, if it will be a strong draft class, do you get lucky in the draft, or the exact year you can say the rebuild is over. Like has been mentioned here already, if Detroit is still struggling to make playoffs in 3-4 years I'd expect a mini rebuild or retool, whatever you want to call it.

There is something in life called constraints. When your company gives you a timeline to get shit done, you either finish it by that time or face the consequences of not getting it done by that timeline. Depending on the situation, there might be flexibility but ultimately somebody in charge will make the decision on what the timeline is. For hockey teams, that decision marker is going to be the owner.

In this case, we are talking about Detroit. They have been shit for 8 years, and they gave Yzerman 4 years to fix the bad rebuild that the previous management group left behind. If Yzerman didn't get lucky enough or didn't do enough to tank to the very bottom within those 4 years then that's on him. It is beyond reasonable for ownership to say after 8 years, hey we need to get better now. Fan support or new fan adoption goes down when the team is ass so being ass for 8 years means they lost 1 generation of fans adoption/support. There are things to consider when you run a business, it's not all about screw everything else for the sake of tanking and hoping you get lucky and end up with great players. No ownership is going to be fine with the idea of, "we'll tank for long as we need to even if its 10 years" which is where Detroit is close to.

With that, I don't agree with the moves Yzerman has made. Ownership telling him to get better now doesn't excuse him signing a bunch of middling players.