Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: There are no bad proposals, only bad players

[Volica]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the big deal is about moving Stajan over to the wing so Jankowski can develop properly

Gaudreau-Monahan-Williams/Sharp/Radulov
Ferland-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Bennett-Lazar
Stajan-Jankowski-Hathaway
Chiasson/Hamilton

Bouma and Brouwer lost in space

I'd be down with those lines.
Could also give Jankowski some rest with Stajan tying into centre on some of the tough draws; or he's struggling down the middle.

I see no problem with having Jankowski on the fourth line or as a winger his first season; he projects as a centre, but having too many good centres is a good problem to have.

 

[Lunatik]

I highly doubtful a waiver exempt Jankowski will be playing 4tj line minutes. He'll be top 9 or in the AHL

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the big deal is about moving Stajan over to the wing so Jankowski can develop properly

Gaudreau-Monahan-Williams/Sharp/Radulov
Ferland-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Bennett-Lazar
Stajan-Jankowski-Hathaway
Chiasson/Hamilton

Bouma and Brouwer lost in space

I like it. As long as Jankowski is getting PK / PP time, it doesn't matter what "line" he is on.

 

[Kritty]

Because points are everything? All of Watson's points have come from non-power play and 3 on 3 situations this season. He's been a stud in the playoffs as well.

Ok so add 10 or so PP points then. Or maybe he doesn't play PP because he isn't a PP player. Quality player, sure. There is no way anyone should be attaching the term "stud" to Watson. Is Ferland a stud? He plays the exact same game as Watson and brings more offensive skill than he does.

 

[Skobel24]

Anyone think we should try to pry Nashville's Gaudreau? Freddy and Johnny Hockey on the same team haha.

I think he'd be a great addition to a 4th line, but the Flames have a logjam of bottom 6 forwards as is. As you mentioned, Aberg would be a solid acquisition, but I also like the idea of picking up Craig Smith.

 

[Skobel24]

I highly doubtful a waiver exempt Jankowski will be playing 4tj line minutes. He'll be top 9 or in the AHL

Exactly why I'd start him out on the wing, even if it's only 20 games or so. Takes hard minutes and has Backlund/Frolik mentoring him. It would also give Bennett time at center with Tkachuk and whoever they put on RW. If he does well, leave him at center. if he struggles, consider swapping Jankowski with Bennett.

 

[Skobel24]

Ok so add 10 or so PP points then. Or maybe he doesn't play PP because he isn't a PP player. Quality player, sure. There is no way anyone should be attaching the term "stud" to Watson. Is Ferland a stud? He plays the exact same game as Watson and brings more offensive skill than he does.

I guess it depends on your definition of 'stud'.

 

[Lunatik]

Exactly why I'd start him out on the wing, even if it's only 20 games or so. Takes hard minutes and has Backlund/Frolik mentoring him. It would also give Bennett time at center with Tkachuk and whoever they put on RW. If he does well, leave him at center. if he struggles, consider swapping Jankowski with Bennett.

I'd have no issue with Janko on LW in the top 9. He's played LW before and needs to show he can adapt to make it in the NHL anyway. Although I would prefer Bennett on LW. I actually would still like to try Tkachuk on RW too. So a Bennett-Jankowski-Tkachuk line would be fun to try.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I would rather we go after Josh Anderson than Watson, and I think he's available with expansion but it would cause us to expose Lazar which I don't see.

 

[JPeeper]

What? When? That's a terrible thing to say even if intended as a complement. That pisses off a roster player as well as puts unneeded pressure on the prospect.

It was either after the Flames drafted him in 2014 (Gaudreau only played 1 NHL game), or the year after in 2015 and Gaudreau had played his rookie year. They just said they saw a higher potential in Sam than Gaudreau. I don't see how it is a knock on Gaudreau as Bennett was drafted 4th overall, it's not like they were saying it about a 5th round pick.

Also, Bennett does have a higher potential. He's taller, thicker, faster, plays with a mean streak, doesn't back down from physicality (which Gaudreau clearly does, which I'm not knocking him for, he's small). Bennett also has a better shot than Gaudreau.

I'm not knocking Johnny Hockey at all in this, but based on potential Bennett could be better if he hits his full potential. Though I think Tkachuk becomes the Flames best player from the current core when they all hit their prime.

 

[Volica]

I'm not a big fan of poaching bottom 6 players unless they're of the elite variety. Successful teams have to either draft/develop their own/salvage their own to be successful.

It's just not good asset management if you're giving up assets to acquire someone you should be able to groom internally.

 

[Volica]

I like it. As long as Jankowski is getting PK / PP time, it doesn't matter what "line" he is on.

Not sure in his rookie season if Jankowski would get much of a PP/PK opportunity.
Backlund/Frolik and Bennett/Chiasson were actually quite elite PK'ers. Knowing this teams' love for having Stajan/Bouma out there (FYI, Bouma along with Brouwer were this teams' work PK'ers) there's just not much room on the penalty kill.

On the PP I count 2 spots up for grabs. 1 forward, 1 D.
Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuk & Backlund need PP time.
Brodie, Hamilton, Giordano all need PP time.

In his first season, I don't see Janko getting too much special team love. I'd like to see him get the third pairing PK time... but doubt it happens.

 

[Lunatik]

That was never said and no he doesn't have higher potential because he has half the skill

 

[Fig]

I highly doubtful a waiver exempt Jankowski will be playing 4tj line minutes. He'll be top 9 or in the AHL

I could see it if both the 3rd and 4th lines are seen as 3A/3B lines and deployed nearly equally. But if it's a normal 4th line, I agree with you.

 

[Mobiandi]

The chances Janko slots into our third line at the start of the season are very slim, and essentially zero if more than one of Brouwer, Versteeg, and Chiasson come back. And Lazar certainly won't be pressbox fodder again unless he monumentally disappoints in training camp.

I think the most likely outcome is that he'll be under the tutelage of Stajan on the 4th line (which is not a bad thing), rotating with him between LW and C at the beginning. As the season progresses he may work his way through to the 3rd line as players like Lazar and Chiasson/Brouwer/Versteeg slump and/or he impresses. Or there's the very real possibility that he splits time between the Flames and AHL next season

 

[Volica]

The chances Janko slots into our third line at the start of the season are very slim, and essentially zero if more than one of Brouwer, Versteeg, and Chiasson come back. And Lazar certainly won't be pressbox fodder again unless he monumentally disappoints in training camp.

I think the most likely outcome is that he'll be under the tutelage of Stajan on the 4th line (which is not a bad thing), rotating with him between LW and C at the beginning. As the season progresses he may work his way through to the 3rd line as players like Lazar and Chiasson/Brouwer/Versteeg slump and/or he impresses

Having him on the forth line won't mess with his development at all. If he's really going to be a good NHL'er it'd be a good opportunity for us to take advantage of 4th line match ups. Additionally, this will be his 23 y.o season; even as a longterm development prospect, he needs to play in the NHL at some point.

Depending on the make of the 4th line, there could be some legitimate NHL talent there. Whether that's Janko/Stajan/Chiasson or Lazar... That's a really solid bottom 3. Also, as mentioned in this thread, just because someone plays on the 4th line, doesn't mean they should get 4th line minutes.

Like, I slot Bennett on the third line, but I think he should play the 3rd/4th most minutes of any player a night.

 

[djpatm]

Gotcha. Because points exist independent of role, power play time, linemates, and coaching styles.

So...
Does 7 points in 55GP?
What about 18 in 56 as a 24YO?
Or 35 as a 23 year old?
Or 37 as a 22 year old with the same linemate as Bennett

All of the players you listed besides St. Louis exploded offensively in their 2nd full year.

Players like St Louis and Backlund are not the norm.

This forum over rates potential. I've been burned by way too many promising Flames prospects to just assume that Bennett will explode to be the best player on the team like some of you are saying. I'd love to be wrong though.

Also why is everyone putting Tkachuk on the 3rd line and so eager to break up the best line from last season?

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

So apparently Chayka still highly values M. Smith and won't give him away.

****. He would have been the perfect stop-gap for our team.

If I was Arizona I would trade Snith and try to find a young starter now, so they don't end up in the mess we are in right now. Oh well.

 

[Lunatik]

So apparently Chayka still highly values M. Smith and won't give him away.

****. He would have been the perfect stop-gap for our team.

If I was Arizona I would trade Snith and try to find a young starter now, so they don't end up in the mess we are in right now. Oh well.

he also didn't think he was giving away Stone

 

[Mobiandi]

Also why is everyone putting Tkachuk on the 3rd line and so eager to break up the best line from last season?

To me, the way GG rolls his lines evenly, it makes more sense to spread the talent around and have three solid lines rather than only two good ones. Also it's quite clear that the third line last year did not work last year in any capacity and it wouldn't make any sense to persist with that.

I view it more as a 2A and 2B line.

 

[Mobiandi]

So apparently Chayka still highly values M. Smith and won't give him away.

****. He would have been the perfect stop-gap for our team.

If I was Arizona I would trade Snith and try to find a young starter now, so they don't end up in the mess we are in right now. Oh well.

Meh maybe Smith forces a move. He's getting up there in age and he probably won't be around by the time the Coyotes begin to get good

 

[SmellOfVictory]

It was either after the Flames drafted him in 2014 (Gaudreau only played 1 NHL game), or the year after in 2015 and Gaudreau had played his rookie year. They just said they saw a higher potential in Sam than Gaudreau. I don't see how it is a knock on Gaudreau as Bennett was drafted 4th overall, it's not like they were saying it about a 5th round pick.

Also, Bennett does have a higher potential. He's taller, thicker, faster, plays with a mean streak, doesn't back down from physicality (which Gaudreau clearly does, which I'm not knocking him for, he's small). Bennett also has a better shot than Gaudreau.

I'm not knocking Johnny Hockey at all in this, but based on potential Bennett could be better if he hits his full potential. Though I think Tkachuk becomes the Flames best player from the current core when they all hit their prime.

Bennett may have better basic physical tools, but his edgework will never come close, his stickhandling is clearly worse, and his passing/anticipation are both a tier below. I'd say the chances of him becoming a better player, even if we take defensive ability into account, are pretty slim.

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

Meh maybe Smith forces a move. He's getting up there in age and he probably won't be around by the time the Coyotes begin to get good

I feel that any time the Coyotes get ahead, they take a step or two back the following season. At that rate, Chychrun won't be around by the time Coyotes begin to get good.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

All of the players you listed besides St. Louis exploded offensively in their 2nd full year.

Players like St Louis and Backlund are not the norm.

This forum over rates potential. I've been burned by way too many promising Flames prospects to just assume that Bennett will explode to be the best player on the team like some of you are saying. I'd love to be wrong though.

Also why is everyone putting Tkachuk on the 3rd line and so eager to break up the best line from last season?

He thinks Monahan is a 3C, Puljujarvi despite having an alright season in the A is a mid 6er at best, but still thinks Bennett can be an elite 1C despite his first rookie season being alright, but nothing more, and a poor second season.

 

[Volica]

To me, the way GG rolls his lines evenly, it makes more sense to spread the talent around and have three solid lines rather than only two good ones. Also it's quite clear that the third line last year did not work last year in any capacity and it wouldn't make any sense to persist with that.

I view it more as a 2A and 2B line.

It really all depends on TOI and usage.
Gaudreau should be at about 18 minutes a night.
Monahan at about 17:30
Backlund 17:30
Bennett & Tkachuk 17
Frolik about 15:30

Could easily make that work.