Armchair Gm Thread II

[desmondtootoo]

Almost every player that comes here sees a reduction, and it's because we try to run everything through the defense and that has been a staple since Josi took over as captain.

This has always been true, going back to Kimmo - Skrastins.
Delmore, Zidlicky, etc.
It’s just a Poile thing, that really doesn’t work.
Probably one of the big things that sunk Legwand. If they concentrate on F’s in the next few drafts instead of always going with fancy little offensive Dmen, maybe Leggy gets better playing with them.

 

[triggrman]

I do remember some of that at the time because Granlund had a rough January and February (~0.5 point per game pace) after a very strong start to the season. I don't think anyone expected him to drop as far he did but there were some concerns among Wild fans about signing him to the long term big dollar deal he was expected to get at that time.

He had an 8 game pointless streak in January but that happens in a season. He was already out of that funk though, when he was traded he had 10 points in the last 13 games.

 

[triggrman]

This has always been true, going back to Kimmo - Skrastins.
Delmore, Zidlicky, etc.
It’s just a Poile thing, that really doesn’t work.
Probably one of the big things that sunk Legwand. If they concentrate on F’s in the next few drafts instead of always going with fancy little offensive Dmen, maybe Leggy gets better playing with them.

Fully agree. It's what Poile's vision is. Offense from defense, defense from centers and rolling 4 lines. It does not work. Defense should always be secondary scoring, not primary. Our goal most shifts seems to be to feed the puck to our defensemen to score or to force more space for the forwards. Most teams force you to cover their forwards and if you do, they drop it back to the defense, defense isn't the primary....

 

[jusu11]

My two cents on how the roster could be altered and how we could look for the next two seasons.

Trade (meaningful players):
Ekholm - 1st, prospect
Granlund - 2nd, 3rd

Fire:
Hynes
rest of the coaching staff

Hire:
Taylor
Sign Farrance

Ideal lineup rest of the 2021 season:

Forsberg-Duchene-Tolvanen
Kunin-Johansen-Arvidsson
Trenin-Pitlick-Järnkrok
Olivier-Sissons-Grimaldi

Josi-Ellis
Davies-Fabbro
Boro-Carrier

Do not trade assets for Seattle. Expose Johansen and Duchene but in this case they will take Sissons (Järnkrok protected).

Draft 2021:

Top 10 pick - Beniers, Johnson, Eklund, Guenther
Late 1st - Samoskevich, Chibrikov

Roster 2021-2022:

Forsberg-Duchene-Tolvanen
Tomasino-Johansen-Arvidsson
Trenin-Pitlick-Kunin
Olivier-Järnkrok-Grimaldi

Josi-Ellis
Davies-Fabbro
Farrance/Carrier/Allard

Saros
Ingram

In my opinion that hypothetical roster for 2021-2022 is bad but at least has some hope of becoming better. If we are able to draft one or two exiting offensive players in the 2021 draft the future of the team would look a lot better than it does now. I think it is also necessary that we concentrate on forward prospects in this draft. Defensively we have Josi, Ellis, Fabbro for the next years and then young players like Davies, Allard and Carrier who might be able to hold their own starting from next season and then two other good prospects in Farrance and Chistyakov and one decent in Wilsby. So we basically need maybe two of these 6 to become decent-good NHL players for our defense to be secured for the next few years.

In the forward prospect department we don't have a lot regarding top end talent but have some good complimentary pieces. 2021 and 2022 drafts could help with adding that top end potential. Forsberg is the cornerstone of the offense for the next 5 years at least and then players like Tomasino and Tolvanen have a good chance of becoming reliable top6 players. If you can add a player like Beniers or Johnson to that top6 in 2022-2023 season it starts to get better. Complimentary pieces from the offense with some estimate when they could have a role in the NHL: Trenin (2021), Pitlick (2021), Novak (2022), Pärssinen (2023), Afanasyev (2023).

Askarov needs time but the way this roster will be set up the next few seasons gives it to him. If he keeps on developing the goalie situation should be covered long term.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

The issue with looking at next year is the expansion draft.

Do you protect Saros and Ingram or just Saros?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The issue with looking at next year is the expansion draft.

Do you protect Saros and Ingram or just Saros?

You can only protect 1 goalie, no matter what.

I protect Saros. I can't see Seattle being interested in Ingram. He has done well in the minors, but never having played in the NHL + his off-ice issues should keep him off their radar.

That could change if he comes up and plays some good games for us down the stretch, though. But as of today, it's not a difficult decision at all.

 

[triggrman]

Is Davies good enough to play 2nd pairing?

I ask because I haven't seen him, so I really don't know.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Is Davies good enough to play 2nd pairing?

I ask because I haven't seen him, so I really don't know.

I haven't seen him so I don't know either. But I think one can read the tea leaves reasonably well... he's not clearly ready for the NHL at all yet. Next year he could be like Carrier, trying to get a chance to show if he can do something, but who knows what chance he'll get, especially once we add Farrance to the mix.

I guess it would be a pleasant surprise at this point if Davies made it to our 2nd pairing 2 or 3 years from now, that's the current trajectory.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

You can only protect 1 goalie, no matter what.

I protect Saros. I can't see Seattle being interested in Ingram. He has done well in the minors, but never having played in the NHL + his off-ice issues should keep him off their radar.

That could change if he comes up and plays some good games for us down the stretch, though. But as of today, it's not a difficult decision at all.

While he has not playing in the NHL, his AHL stats are hard to ignore and he's still relatively young. It took years for Lehner to do something about his off-ice issues and has been better for it. Ahh forgot about the limits, I thought you could change it to 8 players and cover anyone. Holtby, Allen, Fluery/Lehner, Hill, Vanecek, Khudobin, etc could be picked over Ingram, but outside of Hill and Vanecek, generally most of the goalies available will be 30+.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

While he has not playing in the NHL, his AHL stats are hard to ignore and he's still relatively young. It took years for Lehner to do something about his off-ice issues and has been better for it. Ahh forgot about the limits, I thought you could change it to 8 players and cover anyone. Holtby, Allen, Fluery/Lehner, Hill, Vanecek, Khudobin, etc could be picked over Ingram, but outside of Hill and Vanecek, generally most of the goalies available will be 30+.

The other thing in our favor(ish) on Ingram is that he won't be waiver exempt next year. So if Seattle takes him, they have to keep him in the NHL, or waive him to the minors. To me, based on today's data anyway, I don't see how they could justify using a pick on him and planning on keeping him in the NHL. There are a few goalies like Berdin who will still be waiver exempt who they could snag and send to their farm team. And many goalies they could consider for the NHL spot. And Ingram is not in either of those groups today.

Again, though, anything could change if he gets back in shape in Chicago, comes up here and looks great at the end of the season for us. So who knows. But as of today, I can't see him being Seattle's best pick from us.

 

[glenngineer]

I said I wasn't going to do this yet here I am. If I was going to have to rebuild this team, here's what I'd do from the list of players we have on the roster, the farm and in college.

Arvy - move him while he still has value, breaking down too much
Cousins - bye. Hasn't brought any sort of edge to the team
Duchene - can't move him, figure out how to build around him
Forsberg - best player you have, build around him
Granlund - re-sign him. guy plays hard. goes to the hard areas. I know you can get some value for him but you move him, you're creating more holes at this point. unless you get a deal you can't turn down, I want him on this team
Grimaldi - bye
Haula - bye
Jarnkrok - bye
Johansen - can't move him, haven't figured out how to get the most out of him
Kunin - keep for now
McCarron - bye
Olivier - keep, I like his game for the 4th line, need the grit and he's cheap
Pitlick - keep
Richardson - bye
Sissons - bye. while I liked that Poile signed him long term, if he can't find his way on to the 2nd PP unit or past the 4th line on most night, his salary is an albatross although he'll be easier to move than Joey or Dutch
Tolvanen - keep
Trenin - keep

Benning - who cares
Borowiecki - hasn't brought anything to the table I was expecting
Carrier - Have him put on a few more pounds and keep him around
Davies - move him. just turned 24 and I just don't see it happening for him
Ekholm - keep him. he's the only big guy you have on the blue line that's worth anything. Ticked at him for not leveling Dickinson yesterday after he boarded Josi. Has played a ton better since returning. Pair him with Carrier
Ellis - move him. His contract will become an albatross. Would do well as a PP specialist for another team. Haven't like his play in the playoffs either.
Fabbro - Keep
Harpur - who care, bye
Josi - build around him obviously
Sbisa - bye

Rinne - move him if he wants to go to a contender. while he looked great yesterday, he is too inconsistent at this point to be counted on
Saros - no clue what to do with him. Keep him for now.
Ingram - love to see what he can do
Kaskisuo - don't know enough about him, keep him as he's a warm body

Afanasyev - kid has potential to be special. great soft hands, especially around the net
Novak - starting to shine in the AHL, will it translate if given the shot? willing to keep him around
Richard - another small guy with speed that doesn't stand out
Tomasino - one of the pieces of the future
Farrance - figure out a way to sign him and start playing him on the third pairing and see if he can push his way into the top 4
Allard - on the smallish side, yet again, don't see a future here for him
Askarov - the future in net

So realistically, with all the trimming of the fat I just did, we'd have these guys up front
Forsberg - Joey - Tolvanen
Granlund - Duchene - Tomasino
Kunin - Pitlick - Trenin
Olivier

These guys in the rear
Josi - Fabbro
Ekholm - Carrier
Farrance

These guys in net
Rinne?
Saros
Ingram

Pipeline
Afanasyev
Askarov
Novak?

Honestly, I'm ok with this because you can fill a lot of the holes in free agency or through the draft. This is more of a retool than anything. You'd also have to find a coach that can get more out of the guys than we're currently getting. I also think you can get enough with the trash we'd want to move to help start replenishing the farm. Ellis should get you a 1st and a decent player/prospect in return. All the others you can get 3rd - 7th round picks. Maybe someone will give you a second for Sissons or Jarnkrok.

Is it perfect or pretty, nope. We'd address one issue though and we'd get younger. I would find a large defenseman for the back end that has a little game. This team is too easy to play against right now.

And I know I can't unload all of these guys in trades, this is just what I would do to reshape the roster.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

i definitely do not hate your ideas for a lot of the players. especially if we go re-tool instead of rebuild. i actually agree with just about everyone of your assessments.

however, i believe we need a full rebuild. the only 2 guys i would be keeping are Forsberg and ekholm. See if they will re-sign long term. If not, you have to shop them too at some point. I wish more than anything we would shop Ellis. I would shop Josi if we’re going rebuild. Johansen and Duchene we are probably stuck with but if you can get rid of either, do it.

i would be looking at these pieces to build with...

xxxxxx - tomasino - tolvanen
Forsberg - pitlick -xxxxxx
xxxxx -xxxxxx - trenin
Olivier - xxxxx - jarnkrok

Ekholm - xxxx
Farrance - Fabbro
xxxx - carrier

Ingram / Saros

Granted we are not just trading away everyone but these are the guys I would keep if we go rebuild and see us being able to build around. My knowledge of prospects are somewhat limited depending on what league they play in.

we would be able to fill some of those spots immediately by trading Josi. Ellis and granlund would bring back some A/B prospects or good draft picks. I would also look to find some size and grit on the rest of the defensive slots. whenever this group would be matured And what not, Forsberg and ekholm would be our obvious leaders and askarov should be hitting his groove. 3-4 years from now. I wouldn’t mind ekholm having a chara type career here. He has his bad nights but I like his overall game best out of all our defenseman. Ellis is too small and Josi just tries to do too damn much and he brings back the most assets.

 

[originalpredfan]

I said I wasn't going to do this yet here I am. If I was going to have to rebuild this team, here's what I'd do from the list of players we have on the roster, the farm and in college.

Arvy - move him while he still has value, breaking down too much
Cousins - bye. Hasn't brought any sort of edge to the team
Duchene - can't move him, figure out how to build around him
Forsberg - best player you have, build around him
Granlund - re-sign him. guy plays hard. goes to the hard areas. I know you can get some value for him but you move him, you're creating more holes at this point. unless you get a deal you can't turn down, I want him on this team
Grimaldi - bye
Haula - bye
Jarnkrok - bye
Johansen - can't move him, haven't figured out how to get the most out of him
Kunin - keep for now
McCarron - bye
Olivier - keep, I like his game for the 4th line, need the grit and he's cheap
Pitlick - keep
Richardson - bye
Sissons - bye. while I liked that Poile signed him long term, if he can't find his way on to the 2nd PP unit or past the 4th line on most night, his salary is an albatross although he'll be easier to move than Joey or Dutch
Tolvanen - keep
Trenin - keep

Benning - who cares
Borowiecki - hasn't brought anything to the table I was expecting
Carrier - Have him put on a few more pounds and keep him around
Davies - move him. just turned 24 and I just don't see it happening for him
Ekholm - keep him. he's the only big guy you have on the blue line that's worth anything. Ticked at him for not leveling Dickinson yesterday after he boarded Josi. Has played a ton better since returning. Pair him with Carrier
Ellis - move him. His contract will become an albatross. Would do well as a PP specialist for another team. Haven't like his play in the playoffs either.
Fabbro - Keep
Harpur - who care, bye
Josi - build around him obviously
Sbisa - bye

Rinne - move him if he wants to go to a contender. while he looked great yesterday, he is too inconsistent at this point to be counted on
Saros - no clue what to do with him. Keep him for now.
Ingram - love to see what he can do
Kaskisuo - don't know enough about him, keep him as he's a warm body

Afanasyev - kid has potential to be special. great soft hands, especially around the net
Novak - starting to shine in the AHL, will it translate if given the shot? willing to keep him around
Richard - another small guy with speed that doesn't stand out
Tomasino - one of the pieces of the future
Farrance - figure out a way to sign him and start playing him on the third pairing and see if he can push his way into the top 4
Allard - on the smallish side, yet again, don't see a future here for him
Askarov - the future in net

So realistically, with all the trimming of the fat I just did, we'd have these guys up front
Forsberg - Joey - Tolvanen
Granlund - Duchene - Tomasino
Kunin - Pitlick - Trenin
Olivier

These guys in the rear
Josi - Fabbro
Ekholm - Carrier
Farrance

These guys in net
Rinne?
Saros
Ingram

Pipeline
Afanasyev
Askarov
Novak?

Honestly, I'm ok with this because you can fill a lot of the holes in free agency or through the draft. This is more of a retool than anything. You'd also have to find a coach that can get more out of the guys than we're currently getting. I also think you can get enough with the trash we'd want to move to help start replenishing the farm. Ellis should get you a 1st and a decent player/prospect in return. All the others you can get 3rd - 7th round picks. Maybe someone will give you a second for Sissons or Jarnkrok.

Is it perfect or pretty, nope. We'd address one issue though and we'd get younger. I would find a large defenseman for the back end that has a little game. This team is too easy to play against right now.

And I know I can't unload all of these guys in trades, this is just what I would do to reshape the roster.

I like. Perhaps you need to throw your hat in the ring for our next GM.

 

[Scoresberg]

Thank God.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Thank God.

Now let’s revisit Ellis

 

[herzausstein]

Thank God.

Hopefully that means we can stop seeing terrible trade offers from Maple Leaf Fans

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Is Davies good enough to play 2nd pairing?

I ask because I haven't seen him, so I really don't know.

Were about to find out

 

[Scoresberg]

For every dollar he's overpaid, I still protect Joey in the ED. He's valuable for this team, as he's the only center who can truly go head-to-head against other team's top centers and have success.

 

[alexmanu]

I really like what I saw out of Jeremy Davies last night. Maybe we have something there.

I’d like us to go with the Davies-Carrier partnership more moving forward and see if they can stick for next season.

Benning is ok and Boro the same. We know what we have with those two. But they will stay in the lineup as long as we have these injuries.

 

[Scoresberg]

I really like what I saw out of Jeremy Davies last night. Maybe we have something there.

I’d like us to go with the Davies-Carrier partnership more moving forward and see if they can stick for next season.

Benning is ok and Boro the same. We know what we have with those two. But they will stay in the lineup as long as we have these injuries.

You never hope for injuries but these certainly give us a good chance to see what we've got in Davies and Carrier.

 

[glenngineer]

I really like what I saw out of Jeremy Davies last night. Maybe we have something there.

I’d like us to go with the Davies-Carrier partnership more moving forward and see if they can stick for next season.

Benning is ok and Boro the same. We know what we have with those two. But they will stay in the lineup as long as we have these injuries.

My biggest reservation with these two is their lack of size. I did a very quick search the other night on this very thing and I got to Tampa and they don't have a d-man under 200 pounds on their roster. We have Ekholm at 215 and Josi at 201. They would be considered light on that roster. I think Boro and Benning might be 200 too but they are careful over.

While it's great to have guys with skill on the back end, I think there needs to be a balance of guys that lay a body on guys to wear them down as a game or series goes on.

 

[PredsV82]

If Kunin and Davies both pan out we will have got one hell of a nice haul for a washed up PK Subban..... Afanasayev is the third piece...

 

[GoldOnGold]

My biggest reservation with these two is their lack of size. I did a very quick search the other night on this very thing and I got to Tampa and they don't have a d-man under 200 pounds on their roster. We have Ekholm at 215 and Josi at 201. They would be considered light on that roster. I think Boro and Benning might be 200 too but they are careful over.

While it's great to have guys with skill on the back end, I think there needs to be a balance of guys that lay a body on guys to wear them down as a game or series goes on.

We do have these guys:

Sbisa- 206
Harpur - 222
Benning - 203
Boro - 204

But I do see what you're saying. We have Prokop in the WHL who is 6' 4" and 217, maybe he'll make it someday.

 

[triggrman]

My biggest reservation with these two is their lack of size. I did a very quick search the other night on this very thing and I got to Tampa and they don't have a d-man under 200 pounds on their roster. We have Ekholm at 215 and Josi at 201. They would be considered light on that roster. I think Boro and Benning might be 200 too but they are careful over.

While it's great to have guys with skill on the back end, I think there needs to be a balance of guys that lay a body on guys to wear them down as a game or series goes on.

I understand that, but we do have Ekholm, Harpur and B&B. Borowiecki is listed at 204 but plays more physical than that. Tampa, while big, isn't that physical. I like a good balance but we do not need to go back to all those sub 200lbs defenders. Some of those guys like Allard and Fabbro will be over 200 when they get their man bodies.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

At this point, I would settle for our D playing better positionally and transitionally than we've seen so far. I'm always a fan of physicality on D, but at this point we have room to improve in basically all aspects at the position.