The Versteeg trade going through because of Pacific Time?
I couldn't get on earlier, I thought a big trade of consequence went down. Found out it was Versteeg, haha.
When Drouin is traded there's going to be server fires.
The Versteeg trade going through because of Pacific Time?
And, honestly, losing any one of those guys does not really hurt this team that much right now. We could still get in and make a token run easily. Replace Nyquist with Pulkkinen. Replace Smith with Ouellet. Replace Helm with some stone handed player and we don't miss much of a beat.
I couldn't get on earlier, I thought a big trade of consequence went down. Found out it was Versteeg, haha.
When Drouin is traded there's going to be server fires.
Helm and Smith are easily replaced.
Nyquist isn't in that category though. He's one of our leading scorers on a team that's having extreme difficulties scoring goals and is clearly part of the teams future.
The only scenario where trading Nyquist or Tatar makes sense is if another trade was made already to bolster the offence, or as an upgrade on a better forward replacement.
I've always found it funny around here that every prospect is beloved until they get a season or 2 under their belt then become expendable to make room for the next prospect.
I wonder if the board will turn on Larkin too in a season or 2.
I've always found it funny around here that every prospect is beloved until they get a season or 2 under their belt then become expendable to make room for the next prospect.
I wonder if the board will turn on Larkin too in a season or 2.
I hear it's all that GuruMeditation's fault. Is the error message some kind of inside joke, or something?
I hear it's all that GuruMeditation's fault. Is the error message some kind of inside joke, or something?
Shiny new toy syndrome.
People fought on this forum like dogs to get Smith and Kindl more ice time under the oppressive Babcock regime. Then they did. Now we can't stop talking about how great it will be to ditch them.
The promise of a young player is alluring. When they take those NHL shifts in limited games they are always flying, fighting through hits, doing everything they can to earn more than 8 minutes. It's a desperate fight for life against other bottom lines. Then the reality sets in when you want to throw one of them into a scoring role against top defenders.
It's difficult to shake this mindset because sometimes flipping in a prospect does work out better. And sometimes it doesn't. So we tend to remember our successes and come up with reasons and excuses for the failures that were out of our control. You know, like Babcock ruined Smith. He used his powers to suck out all the skill from his game. Made him stupid and such. I don't know, I never really followed that logic, somebody else can make that argument.
The difference from previous years is we used to have this debate around guys like Sammy and Bert. Older, slower guys with a lot of league savvy, but lose their legs. Now it's guys who still have plenty in the tank, but it turns out their top performances are, ehhh, lacking. It was a lot easier to talk about replacing Cleary when he was banged up beyond hope than it is to find answers when younger players like Nyquist don't give us what we want.
I'm all for a roster shakeup and some wholesale changes, but the time for that is in the off-season, not the trade deadline.
Helm and Smith are easily replaced.
Nyquist isn't in that category though. He's one of our leading scorers on a team that's having extreme difficulties scoring goals and is clearly part of the teams future.
The only scenario where trading Nyquist or Tatar makes sense is if another trade was made already to bolster the offence, or as an upgrade on a better forward replacement.
I've always found it funny around here that every prospect is beloved until they get a season or 2 under their belt then become expendable to make room for the next prospect.
I wonder if the board will turn on Larkin too in a season or 2.
Should sell off the UFAs. BRichards, Helm, whatever.
I think people will miss Helm more than they realize, he is a valuable asset.
Should sell off the UFAs. BRichards, Helm, whatever.
I think people will miss Helm more than they realize, he is a valuable asset.
And, honestly, losing any one of those guys does not really hurt this team that much right now. We could still get in and make a token run easily. Replace Nyquist with Pulkkinen. Replace Smith with Ouellet. Replace Helm with some stone handed player and we don't miss much of a beat.
Should sell off the UFAs. BRichards, Helm, whatever.
I think people will miss Helm more than they realize, he is a valuable asset.
Should sell off the UFAs. BRichards, Helm, whatever.
I think people will miss Helm more than they realize, he is a valuable asset.
Shiny new toy syndrome.
People fought on this forum like dogs to get Smith and Kindl more ice time under the oppressive Babcock regime. Then they did. Now we can't stop talking about how great it will be to ditch them.
The promise of a young player is alluring. When they take those NHL shifts in limited games they are always flying, fighting through hits, doing everything they can to earn more than 8 minutes. It's a desperate fight for life against other bottom lines. Then the reality sets in when you want to throw one of them into a scoring role against top defenders.
It's difficult to shake this mindset because sometimes flipping in a prospect does work out better. And sometimes it doesn't. So we tend to remember our successes and come up with reasons and excuses for the failures that were out of our control. You know, like Babcock ruined Smith. He used his powers to suck out all the skill from his game. Made him stupid and such. I don't know, I never really followed that logic, somebody else can make that argument.
The difference from previous years is we used to have this debate around guys like Sammy and Bert. Older, slower guys with a lot of league savvy, but lose their legs. Now it's guys who still have plenty in the tank, but it turns out their top performances are, ehhh, lacking. It was a lot easier to talk about replacing Cleary when he was banged up beyond hope than it is to find answers when younger players like Nyquist don't give us what we want.
I'm all for a roster shakeup and some wholesale changes, but the time for that is in the off-season, not the trade deadline.
Wings aren't selling because they're a playoff team. You might think they're not very good and they'll get jack hammered in the first round, but no team worth its salt is going to sell off pieces when they're literally five points out of a division lead at the trade deadline. Particularly when the team leading the division seems primed for a decline because they're riding a crazy unsustainable hit streak.
Trading UFA rentals for fourth round picks sounds like a good idea because you're getting assets for someone who could just walk away... But fourth round picks are optimistic returns for the guys the Wings would be selling and seriously, a guy like Helm will provide more value to the Wings than the, at-best, 5% chance they get something useful out of that pick. Most fourth round picks amount to nothing. So you can feel good about "not letting a player leave for no return" while ignoring the fact that so many of the mid round players pretty much are no return.
Selling guys for the sake of salvagjng "value" is ridiculous when you're ignoring the value they will provide for the last two months before they are free agents.
It's like for some reason you feel fine discounting the fact that any team can win in a seven game series and don't want that risk, but you're fine putting the risk into the draft where you won't know for three or four years if you've wasted your time. A 1-5% shot at the draft is fine, but a lets say 20-40% shot in the playoffs is a certainty.
I would suggest that's an extreme simplification. 'Expendable' isn't the same as 'I've identified a position of greater need, and am willing to pay the price to satisfy that need because I think it will be a net gain'.
The fact of the matter is the Wings are loaded at wing in the farm system. While I don't believe that all of them will pan out, I do believe that in the cap world you have to sometimes trade away players you'd prefer to keep and use younger players in order to navigate the cap system. Losing one of Nyquist/Tatar isn't what you would do in a perfect world, but no team is going to part with a top tier, young D-man for unproven prospects or middling draft picks. The Wings will have to send back assets, and in their current cap situation some of those assets will need to come with a healthy cap hit. In the end that is why I find Nyquist to be the best trade bait, because he has a bigger cap hit, because he also could use a change of scenery and because this team needs a top d-man that they have lacked for nearly half a decade.
Have you noticed that Eriksson is one of the top trade assets right now, Boston is above us in the standings and nobody is slamming Boston for moving him.
Have you noticed that Eriksson is one of the top trade assets right now, Boston is above us in the standings and nobody is slamming Boston for moving him.
Should sell off the UFAs. BRichards, Helm, whatever.
I think people will miss Helm more than they realize, he is a valuable asset.
Smith has been a lot better this year... Disagree with him being scratched right now. Analytically and eye test favors him up the lineup this year....
Witnessing his development as a Red Wing for over 3 1/2 seasons has been enjoyable. I think this year he has finally taken that needed step. He carries himself like a gamer now. Strange all the enthusiasm yesterday for him possibly being traded. It was also mentioned by someone that it should have been done seasons ago but I think Smith's value is the highest it's ever been.
It's interesting Marchenko leapfrogged Smith in management's eyes. I won't forget game 1 last spring how weak and out of place Marchenko was. Game 2 Smith was inserted it was a vast improvement the Wings never looked back that series. As for this season I don't see any gulf between the play of Smith vs. Marchy, Ericsson, or Quincey. There's so few spots I can respect it's a tough decision to make.
Smith being better lately doesn't mean he's suddenly good. I think the biggest knocks against him are his low hockey IQ and his terrible passing. He's not going to get any better at this point, and if you can trade a 6th d-man for something, why not?
As for Marchenko, I think he's another Lashoff. Serviceable but I don't think he's going to be anything more than a bottom pair guy. But he's cheaper and younger so let's see what he has. Bottom pairing guys like Smith are easy to replace.