Pretty much. Hall's far from the blame on this team. Blame needs to go to this garbage management.
Are Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov part of the problem?
- Thread starter McDeepika
- Start date
Pretty much. Hall's far from the blame on this team. Blame needs to go to this garbage management.
Lay Z Boy GM
Registered User
It's not their fault. The finger needs to be pointed at management. They drafted goal scorers and haven't made an effort to acquire veteran two way forwards. The roster isn't balanced. It's as simple as that.
If only we had guys like Stoll and Horc from 10 years ago. We used to only have two way guys and lacked scoring power, now we've gone fully in the other direction,
It's plain as day and painfully obvious to everyone outside of our management.
If only we had guys like Stoll and Horc from 10 years ago. We used to only have two way guys and lacked scoring power, now we've gone fully in the other direction,
It's plain as day and painfully obvious to everyone outside of our management.
They really should have signed Jagr like three years ago to help shelter/mentor some of the kids.
And their pro scouting on D has been atrocious.
Ference and Nikitin were poor signings, there were better options.
They should have sold high on Gagner too after the lock out year and gotten a good return on him and moved to sign Grabovski to replace him, instead we waited until his value was garbage to be able to get Purcell (another poor addition).
We could've gotten a decent usable D-Man had we moved Gagner earlier.
And their pro scouting on D has been atrocious.
Ference and Nikitin were poor signings, there were better options.
They should have sold high on Gagner too after the lock out year and gotten a good return on him and moved to sign Grabovski to replace him, instead we waited until his value was garbage to be able to get Purcell (another poor addition).
We could've gotten a decent usable D-Man had we moved Gagner earlier.
Lay Z Boy GM
Registered User
Mact continually waits to trade players until their value is low. Dubnyk, Gagner, Petry and we'll see more examples soon.
NewBoysClub97*
All-Star
It's over 90% management. Same as most people say.
How do you win when you don't even ice a full or NHL team and have the D and goalies we do.
Even D scoring. Look at Calgary's numbers back there.
Plus like everybody said, not enough two way guys who can lift their own weigh up front.
Just a brutally built team with a joke of management team above.
Atrocious is a compliment to them. They are well below that.
How do you win when you don't even ice a full or NHL team and have the D and goalies we do.
Even D scoring. Look at Calgary's numbers back there.
Plus like everybody said, not enough two way guys who can lift their own weigh up front.
Just a brutally built team with a joke of management team above.
Atrocious is a compliment to them. They are well below that.
NewBoysClub97*
All-Star
Look at Schultz. Guy should get his pp minutes even though he barely produces. Be a number 4 at tops.
Is a pylon half of the time. They are going to pay him so much and we know it. They will never be a good team with incompetent management and brutal pro scouting
Is a pylon half of the time. They are going to pay him so much and we know it. They will never be a good team with incompetent management and brutal pro scouting
nexttothemoon
and again...
Honestly we collectively see the issues with this item just as well as MacT should. We watch this ****ing team for the entire pre-season and then 82 games a year.
We can see as plain as day they need more gritty 2-way forwards, better D and better G... but most of all they need management that doesn't "visually" think this team is on the right path... because they are obviously not... they are roaming in the desert without a sniff of water in sight... parched for 9 and soon to be 10 years.
We can see as plain as day they need more gritty 2-way forwards, better D and better G... but most of all they need management that doesn't "visually" think this team is on the right path... because they are obviously not... they are roaming in the desert without a sniff of water in sight... parched for 9 and soon to be 10 years.
Real_Estate-Agent
Registered User
Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov is the topic discussion - these 4 are not part of the problem. These players are who they are & bring a lot to the table - a lot.
The "problem" is that they are surrounded with players that will ensure the Oilers never succeed - especially against the Western teams. Only Hall (maybe) has the physical ability & playing style to crush opponents & get the puck in the offensive zone.
A Curtis Glencross type on each of our top two lines who scares the opposing defensemen before they touch the puck would help. Watching Schultz skate away to avoid a hit the other night leaving the puck behind resulting in a goal epitomized the void in our forwards. And a flaw in Schultz...
That's the problem. I saw more bone crushing hits in the Pittsburgh / Philadelphia game a few days ago than I've seen the Oilers dole out all season!
hyster110
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2011
- 1,083
- 2
im sure your golden boy yak has been left off the score sheet more often........ playing much softer minutes than nuge plays
Last edited:
nexttothemoon
and again...
That Pens-Philly game was excellent... like a playoff game even though Flyers are long out of it. They take great pride in rubbing the Pens faces in defeat every time they play them. 
The BOA is not even a tussle anymore... just 1 team going through the motions while the other team says thanks for the 2 pts.
The BOA is not even a tussle anymore... just 1 team going through the motions while the other team says thanks for the 2 pts.
FlameChampion
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2011
- 13,767
- 15,566
I think its hard to really know because the oilers hiring Eakins has cost them 2 years of development on young players. How can we sit here and analyze what players are like, when (nearly) every single player has regressed under eakins?
I think the biggest problem with the Oilers is that defense cant transition the puck. If you look at the Flames for example, their defense make their forwards a lot better. Because they cant transition the puck properly, they get scored on way too easily. And the goaltending lets in so many poor goals, that it sucks away the confidence of the whole team.
I am not really the biggest Hall fan to be honest. I think he gives away the puck too much, and he tries to dilly dally his way through entire teams that doesnt work. But maybe he would be a lot more effective if our defense transition and structure was better.
I personally like RNH, I think hes a good player, he has shortcomings but hes young. I hope he makes more strides next year.
Eberle is pretty much a one dimensional player, but he gets paid to put up points and thats what he does. I think hes probably a better compliment player on a good team than he is with the oilers, but I dont trust management enough to get something useful if they were to trade him.
Yakupov, who knows what we have with him. Eakins has ruined his development. He seems to be playing better under Nelson. I like his compete level, I like his gritty side, but I really question his hockey IQ at times, and honestly for a #1 pick ... we should still see more from him.
I dont think you can really do anything with the team at the moment. I think management has to actually bring in the coach that they think is best (by going through a proper process) and then evaulate the players in a environment where they are given the chance to actually succeed.
I think the biggest problem with the Oilers is that defense cant transition the puck. If you look at the Flames for example, their defense make their forwards a lot better. Because they cant transition the puck properly, they get scored on way too easily. And the goaltending lets in so many poor goals, that it sucks away the confidence of the whole team.
I am not really the biggest Hall fan to be honest. I think he gives away the puck too much, and he tries to dilly dally his way through entire teams that doesnt work. But maybe he would be a lot more effective if our defense transition and structure was better.
I personally like RNH, I think hes a good player, he has shortcomings but hes young. I hope he makes more strides next year.
Eberle is pretty much a one dimensional player, but he gets paid to put up points and thats what he does. I think hes probably a better compliment player on a good team than he is with the oilers, but I dont trust management enough to get something useful if they were to trade him.
Yakupov, who knows what we have with him. Eakins has ruined his development. He seems to be playing better under Nelson. I like his compete level, I like his gritty side, but I really question his hockey IQ at times, and honestly for a #1 pick ... we should still see more from him.
I dont think you can really do anything with the team at the moment. I think management has to actually bring in the coach that they think is best (by going through a proper process) and then evaulate the players in a environment where they are given the chance to actually succeed.
Tw0Shoes
Registered User
- Mar 15, 2007
- 1,485
- 270
CantHaveTkachev
Legends
Yeah, the Oilers have operated on the mantra of "buy high, sell low" for a decade now.
Doubt they'll improve under Craig "tear everything down and then give up" Mactavish regarding that aspect.
On the list of 'Edmonton Oilers Problems, 2015 Edition', the defensive and leadership shown by Hall, Eberle, and Yakupov is reason #2543.
RNH is an absolute stud at both ends, and I really have no complaints about him.
It's not even really their fault that they're lacking in leadership and defensive awareness. They have to learn from someone above them (and benefit from those behind them). It's not too late to fix this, but I remain cynical that anyone will do anything about this issue.
You think Toews would have turned into what he is now with a bunch of AHLers playing behind him? How about Bergeron, Kopitar, Crosby, or Getzlaf, etc? It's sure easy to look like a Selke candidate when you have Keith and Seabrook playing behind you for 20 minutes a game.
Get some D, and those three will look all-world. Unfortunately, I doubt that happens. They're still playing damn good with absolutely atrocious puck support.
RNH is an absolute stud at both ends, and I really have no complaints about him.
It's not even really their fault that they're lacking in leadership and defensive awareness. They have to learn from someone above them (and benefit from those behind them). It's not too late to fix this, but I remain cynical that anyone will do anything about this issue.
You think Toews would have turned into what he is now with a bunch of AHLers playing behind him? How about Bergeron, Kopitar, Crosby, or Getzlaf, etc? It's sure easy to look like a Selke candidate when you have Keith and Seabrook playing behind you for 20 minutes a game.
Get some D, and those three will look all-world. Unfortunately, I doubt that happens. They're still playing damn good with absolutely atrocious puck support.
McOvechking
Registered User
I hate this argument. It's so factually incorrect.
More often than not, these players are surrounded with each other. The problem with Hall, Nuge, and Eberle is that they are not complete players. They are not the all stars this organization thought they were. You shouldn't expect guys who are drafted 1st overall (ignoring Eberle for a moment here) to require better players on their line just to make them look good.
Nuge is not a #1C - let's put that myth to bed.
Hall is not a team player.
Eberle makes poor decisions, and is very streaky. He has no defensive game.
Yakupov is a head case. He's got some good tools, but doesn't really understand the game.
As far as I'm concerned, this team will never win with this core.
Good lord, this is a mouthful.
"Nuge is not a #1C - let's put that myth to bed."
Maybe you should look at your average 1C in the NHL these days. Points-wise, he can certainly roll with them, he's pretty defensively responsible, and he's not even having a great season by his standards. And he probably doesn't even shave yet. And the fact that you're calling it a 'myth' that shouldn't even be considered shows how ludicrous your argument is. C'mon now.
"Hall is not a team player."
You're going to have to elaborate on this one. He sure racks up a ton of assists and he's one of the few guy who will stick up for his teammates. Hall not signing your napkin at the Rack doesn't make him a bad team player.
"Eberle makes poor decisions, and is very streaky. He has no defensive game."
Poor decisions?! Maybe because he was using the Dallas Eakins Hockey Handbook™ for the past two years. He scores at around a .8 clip regularly, and these days that's pretty damn good. Yeah he's not great defensively, I'll give you that.
"Yakupov is a head case. He's got some good tools, but doesn't really understand the game."
'Head case' is kind of a stretch. He's 20 or 21, had a couple crappy seasons playing with AHL linemates and no PP minutes, and started playing well again. Time will tell with Yak.
On a competent team, three (if not four) of these players would be all-stars. Maybe sit down and watch a few Oilers games before you bash the only decent players on the team.
So, its their fault that management couldn't build around them? Their fault scouts couldn't draft outside the first round? I mean hey, it sure helped when Hall's best veteran was Horcoff. Or how the team had plugs such as Hordichuk, Petrell, Belanger, Barker, etc.
RNH isn't a 1C? You do realize he plays a whole lot of minutes more compared to what the rest of the league does, and he's been doing well. Hall's not a team player? Weird, he has more career assists than goals, so where exactly is the "not a team player" crap coming from? Should I further elaborate of how he is a team player to you? Eberle may be streaky, but he's still one of the productive wingers in the league. Yak's a headcase? More like a work in progress. He has shown glimpses of flashes, and he just needs to work on that consistency level. As far as I'm concerned, its not that this "core" won't ever win. Its the fact that they still have the exact same management. But hey, keep on sprewing crap like the not a team player without any good reasons whatsoever.
Because it must be the cores fault, that this management has failed a rebuild, and they're the same ones who trying to rebuild the rebuild. Gotcha.
Up the Irons
Registered User
well, 3 of the 4 are wingers. That should be the exploding mushroom cloud for management to see that it's wrong headed to go all-in with those 4 players. It's stupid, right off the hop, to build around 3 wingers. 3Cs and 1W is more like it, or at least 2Cs and 2Ws (provided that at least one C is a beast).
you don't build around 3 shortstops, 3 wide receivers or 3 point guards. Its basic team building.
They were philosophically wrong from day 1.
FlameChampion
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2011
- 13,767
- 15,566
I agree with you but if you look at a team like Chicago, they had 1 good center (Toews) and 3 good wingers (Hossa, Kane and Sharp) and they won 2 stanley cups. At least more so in their latest cup (I think they had a deeper roster for their first cup). Granted I am not saying that Toews/Sharp/Kane/Hossa are really comparable with RNH/Hall/Eberle/Yakupov but Chicago still won 2 cups with 1 good centerman.
Granted Chicago had Keith/Seabrook/Hjalm/etc and they had a decent goalie and a good coach that put forth a good system.
But if the Oilers had Keith/Seabrook/Hjalm/good coach/good system/decent goalie, they wouldnt probably be in the situation they are now.
Tw0Shoes
Registered User
- Mar 15, 2007
- 1,485
- 270
Quite a bit. Chicago fans used to rag on him a lot before he broke out at 25.
McOvechking
Registered User
I've really upset you guys with this post. I apologize, I just don't see the same things in these players as everyone else.
I'm not trying to distract the blame away from management. It's that at some point, the players have to be responsible. At the end of the day, they're the ones on the ice losing hockey games.
I'm just wondering if you're projecting your feelings toward Management onto the "face of the team". Scapegoating is a common occurrence amongst many Oilers fans, myself included.
Anyways, the 4 listed players in the OP are part of the problem with the team. But there are a helluva lot bigger issues that will affect perception of the players who are supposed to be the "core".
Once the endless list of problems with this organization are corrected, the core should be fine.
I hope.
Up the Irons
Registered User
certainly, there are different routes or templates, but the basic template of:
1 quality G
2 or 3 quality D
1 great C and a couple more decent Cs
as the basic pieces, before you worry about the Ws, is strong place to start.
I realize you can't always acquire said pieces in the perfect order, but I question if this management group ever even considered trading a W for D or C. I truly believe they still believe, right now at this very moment, that their Ws are too good to part with.
The players have been put in a losing environment, ever since they've been here. When they're not even at their primes yet, and already accept moral victories, that's a big blame on the management. Like I said, Hall's best veteran here was Horcoff. Winning teams had key veterans to support their young stars. Crosby/Guerin, Saad/Toews/Hossa, and the list goes on. It doesn't help them either, when they have two backup goalies with a save % under 900, along with a garbage D. They may be the ones on ice losing, but its all up to management to build the team in order to win. Even if this team drafted others as the top picks, it still wouldn't matter, because it'll still be the exact same supporting cast, but people will rag on Seguin even more for being a party freak, when they rag on Hall already for going to the ranch (big deal?). When you have a GM who labels a d man like Nikitin as a top four, you know you have way more problems than this supposed core that's apparently the problem. Nonsense. Its all on management.
