Are Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov part of the problem?

[Rafters]

All 4 players need to learn how and when to be responsible with the puck...still try to many low percentage plays that result in turnovers......the NHL is a league where mistakes are capitalized ...too often do the oilers players try to force pucks through player skates...or try a fancy pass when it is not necessary ....these guys need to learn its not just what you do but also what you leave for the other team.....also I don't know how any times I seen another teams player just hold the puck ...wait for the oiler to do a flyby and make a pass...knowing full well they were not going to be hit or pressured in any way....much easier game to play when you have time and space.....this is not just our top 4 players...this is a club issue....too many guys afraid to get bumps and bruises on this team that don't want to put their body on the line to win..the Kings never turned the corner until they started taking as much pride making a good defensive play as an offensive play

 

[Up the Irons]

AnY

Gagner was the problem.
Cogliano was the problem.
Nilsson was the problem.
Smyth was the problem.
Hemsky was the problem.
Whitney was the problem.
Smid was the problem.
Horcoff was the problem.
Dubnyk was the problem.
Bryzgalov was the problem.
Reider was the problem.
Glencross was the problem.
Petry was the problem.
Perron was the problem.
Belanger was the problem.

RNH, Hall, Eberle, and Yakupov are definitely the problem.

Draisaitl, Nurse, and whoever we take with this pick will be the problem.

It is definitely the players and not the same management team that has existed for over a decade of futility.

This. But, specifically focussing on the Fab 4 they are what they are. Namely, a small C and 3Ws. Anyone that thinks that is a starting point for a rebuild and, ultimately, the core pieces to a championship team is not fit to manage a pro hockeyteam.

Their unwillingness to trade any value asset has been, an continues to be, their failure.

U build with D, not Ws. They were f----d from the start.

 

[Connor Mcdavey*]

No.

One day people will whine about them and run them out of town, only to see them become true stars. The problem is management, but fans will always drink the Koolaid. The fact that you think 4 different young players with different playing styles and backgrounds are part of the problem shows me that it's probably something to do with the team and not them individually.

one day huh? They're 25, 24, and 23 ....... still waiting for them to become stars

 

[thadd]

Hopkins - Eberle

I think they're a great pair. They have amazing chemistry. If you want you can bash Hopkins for not being as dominant yet, but he's by far the best center we've had since Doug Weight.

Eberle is a solid scoring winger more than capable of putting put 1PPG.

Taylor Hall - Most offensively gifted player we've had since Mark Messier. One of the fastest skaters and most motivated players to ever lace up for the Oilers. The problem is that he doesn't really have any chemistry with any of our players and I don't think he ever has.

Other players on his line are forced to adapt to his style of play in order to have any level of success playing with him. He is unable to adapt to how his team mates play. As long as he still feels he has a reason to play with passion this will probably never change.

Nail Yakupov - From the looks of things nobody ever did anything to help this kid out from the day that he arrived in Edmonton until the day that Nelson became head coach.

Like Taylor Hall he plays with a lot of passion, but he's a totally different player. His hockey IQ and willingness to listen to the coaches are evidently better than Hall's, but he gets stuck with weaker line-mates.

Conclusion: I'm happy with the Pouliot - Hopkins - Eberle line. Everyone on this line knows their role and when Hall isn't in the line-up it's a productive line. I can't for the life of me understand why Hopkins and Eberle don't seem to bring as much intensity when Hall is in the line-up.

Edmonton needs to find a playmaking skater who can move like the wind to make Hall - XXX - a viable line. Hall and Yakupov haven't looked all that great together in the past. Hall always seems incredibly hesitant to pass the puck to Yakupov. They haven't played together much this season, but last season this was obvious and it might have been due to Yakupov being so cursed offensively last season.

I guess I'm pointing my finger at Hall, but it would most likely be a very moot point if we actually had a decent group of d-men and a legit starting goalie.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Hopkins - Eberle

I think they're a great pair. They have amazing chemistry. If you want you can bash Hopkins for not being as dominant yet, but he's by far the best center we've had since Doug Weight.

Eberle is a solid scoring winger more than capable of putting put 1PPG.

Taylor Hall - Most offensively gifted player we've had since Mark Messier. One of the fastest skaters and most motivated players to ever lace up for the Oilers. The problem is that he doesn't really have any chemistry with any of our players and I don't think he ever has.

Other players on his line are forced to adapt to his style of play in order to have any level of success playing with him. He is unable to adapt to how his team mates play. As long as he still feels he has a reason to play with passion this will probably never change.

Nail Yakupov - From the looks of things nobody ever did anything to help this kid out from the day that he arrived in Edmonton until the day that Nelson became head coach.

Like Taylor Hall he plays with a lot of passion, but he's a totally different player. His hockey IQ and willingness to listen to the coaches are evidently better than Hall's, but he gets stuck with weaker line-mates.

Conclusion: I'm happy with the Pouliot - Hopkins - Eberle line. Everyone on this line knows their role and when Hall isn't in the line-up it's a productive line. I can't for the life of me understand why Hopkins and Eberle don't seem to bring as much intensity when Hall is in the line-up.

Edmonton needs to find a playmaking skater who can move like the wind to make Hall - XXX - a viable line. Hall and Yakupov haven't looked all that great together in the past. Hall always seems incredibly hesitant to pass the puck to Yakupov. They haven't played together much this season, but last season this was obvious and it might have been due to Yakupov being so cursed offensively last season.

I guess I'm pointing my finger at Hall, but it would most likely be a very moot point if we actually had a decent group of d-men and a legit starting goalie.

Draisaitl when ready will compliment Hall and Yak perfectly... Eventually

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

one day huh? They're 25, 24, and 23 ....... still waiting for them to become stars

What? They're 23, 22, and 21. And Hall is already a top LW in the game.

 

[Jumptheshark]

only comment I am tired of hearing is
"we can not win without Hall"

my question is "Have we every won with him"?

their retort is

"Your missing the point"

still not sure what their point is though

but in my opinion--certain players played a lot better without Hall around then with him being around and now that he us back 100%--the players who were playing good have gone back into their shell. This concerns me.

Most people around the team say the dressing room is Hall's is this a good thing.

I keep going back to the Tom Renney comments where he more or less said the team was given to Hall on a silver platter. Now I know there is large fan base pumping Hall's tires

there is a giant elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about

Eberle's contract is up on July 1st 2019 and Halls on July 1st 2020

maybe because I am a lot older then many posters on this board--this season is done--meaning that in four years Eberle can walk and five years Hall can--just about the time the oilers are getting good--two key pieces to the team get to use the UFA gun to the oilers head.

Now here is my crazy idea--we use Eberle and Hall to Shelter Leon, Nuge and Yak for two years--making those two the key focus of fan hatred and in two years trade them for assets that will be on the team in five years time.

The first three waves of the rebuild have failed very badly (first wave was trading Smyth for 1 first, Nilsson and Omera) second wave was all the bad contracts (horcoff, Penner, Souray-habby)--third wave was drafting Hall, Eberle, Gags and Mags and not allowing them to develop properly

 

[thadd]

Draisaitl when ready will compliment Hall and Yak perfectly... Eventually

You know what's really scary? I've had a reoccurring dream 3-4 times of us drafting Strome. Makes no sense to me. But I'm convinced we're picking Strome if we have the #3 pick. I think that Strome will be amazing but we need more depth on the blueline.

On Draisaitl: I more or less agree, but he's a ways away. I really don't think he'll be in the NHL next year. I hope that he gets a full year in the AHL. He's really big for his age but he still hasn't learned how to use his body like most people his size.

When people say he needs to get stronger I don't think that it refers to him putting on more muscle as much as it refers to him learning how to use his body correctly.

Here's crossing my fingers that we resign roy and spend all of our efforts to get some legit d-men on this team.

 

[Connor Mcdavey*]

What? They're 23, 22, and 21. And Hall is already a top LW in the game.

Fair enough, I didn't look at their ages I'm on mobile but whats concerning is that okay, we can't get into the playoffs with this group.. The problem is, we can't get out of the basement!! We've literally madr zero progress with this core

 

[tinfish]

Three of those four can't play a lick of D. That in its self is problem. I like all three of our wingers, but it's too much of the same thing. We need more balance in our line up.

 

[Aerrol]

Gagner was the problem.
Cogliano was the problem.
Nilsson was the problem.
Smyth was the problem.
Hemsky was the problem.
Whitney was the problem.
Smid was the problem.
Horcoff was the problem.
Dubnyk was the problem.
Bryzgalov was the problem.
Reider was the problem.
Glencross was the problem.
Petry was the problem.
Perron was the problem.
Belanger was the problem.

RNH, Hall, Eberle, and Yakupov are definitely the problem.

Draisaitl, Nurse, and whoever we take with this pick will be the problem.


It is definitely the players and not the same management team that has existed for over a decade of futility.

I was going to chime in but this already covered it for me. I am so sick and tired of our fanbase running NHL level talent (no, not top talent, but they're still playing in the damn league and contributing) out of town. Then everyone is shocked that we haven't gotten better via "addition by subtraction". Addition by subtraction my ***. The problem is management, not what little potential top level talent we have.

Would I have preferred to have drafted Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin or Stamkos/Tavares/Kane? Sure, but I also would prefer to win the lottery tomorrow. Just because our top players aren't performing at the same level (which I'm sure has NOTHING to do with our awful management being unable to field anything better than a B-level AHL defence) doesn't mean they're the problem. If we trade any of them we better be getting equivalent NHL level talent, not some ridiculous grab bag of picks and bottom 6ers.

 

[Fourier]

Three of those four can't play a lick of D. That in its self is problem. I like all three of our wingers, but it's too much of the same thing. We need more balance in our line up.

This is simply false. Its not their role to be Selke candidates. What they need to do is be responsible. Yakupov has bought into this completely. Hall has been much better at times this year but has been inconsistent. Eberle is less effective than the other two but it is not beyond him. All it takes is discipline.

The line-up does need more balance. But despite what people seem to think it does not need less talent. Split these guys up and add additional dimension to their lines.

Pouliot RNH Eberle
Hall Lander Stafford
Draisaitl Roy Yakupov

I am not saying it has to be Stafford but it should not be impossible to find a RW with size who can play. It's way to early to bail on these kids just because the guys running the show can't do their jobs.

 

[King1s]

Hopkins - Eberle

I think they're a great pair. They have amazing chemistry. If you want you can bash Hopkins for not being as dominant yet, but he's by far the best center we've had since Doug Weight.

Eberle is a solid scoring winger more than capable of putting put 1PPG.

Taylor Hall - Most offensively gifted player we've had since Mark Messier. One of the fastest skaters and most motivated players to ever lace up for the Oilers. The problem is that he doesn't really have any chemistry with any of our players and I don't think he ever has.

Other players on his line are forced to adapt to his style of play in order to have any level of success playing with him. He is unable to adapt to how his team mates play. As long as he still feels he has a reason to play with passion this will probably never change.

Nail Yakupov - From the looks of things nobody ever did anything to help this kid out from the day that he arrived in Edmonton until the day that Nelson became head coach.

Like Taylor Hall he plays with a lot of passion, but he's a totally different player. His hockey IQ and willingness to listen to the coaches are evidently better than Hall's, but he gets stuck with weaker line-mates.

Conclusion: I'm happy with the Pouliot - Hopkins - Eberle line. Everyone on this line knows their role and when Hall isn't in the line-up it's a productive line. I can't for the life of me understand why Hopkins and Eberle don't seem to bring as much intensity when Hall is in the line-up.

Edmonton needs to find a playmaking skater who can move like the wind to make Hall - XXX - a viable line. Hall and Yakupov haven't looked all that great together in the past. Hall always seems incredibly hesitant to pass the puck to Yakupov. They haven't played together much this season, but last season this was obvious and it might have been due to Yakupov being so cursed offensively last season.

I guess I'm pointing my finger at Hall, but it would most likely be a very moot point if we actually had a decent group of d-men and a legit starting goalie.

Hopkins and Eberle are a great duo, they just click. Pouliot is a very good option as a third player on that line.

I personally think that Hall and Yakupov could be the other great duo. Again, in my personal opinion their styles are more straight forward than Ebs/Nuge and I think that they would be great together. Furthermore, I also feel that Draisait when ready would be the perfect center for these guys.

That would be 2 very good lines...

 

[frag2]

Hopkins - Eberle

I think they're a great pair. They have amazing chemistry. If you want you can bash Hopkins for not being as dominant yet, but he's by far the best center we've had since Doug Weight.

Eberle is a solid scoring winger more than capable of putting put 1PPG.

Taylor Hall - Most offensively gifted player we've had since Mark Messier. One of the fastest skaters and most motivated players to ever lace up for the Oilers. The problem is that he doesn't really have any chemistry with any of our players and I don't think he ever has.

Other players on his line are forced to adapt to his style of play in order to have any level of success playing with him. He is unable to adapt to how his team mates play. As long as he still feels he has a reason to play with passion this will probably never change.

Nail Yakupov - From the looks of things nobody ever did anything to help this kid out from the day that he arrived in Edmonton until the day that Nelson became head coach.

Like Taylor Hall he plays with a lot of passion, but he's a totally different player. His hockey IQ and willingness to listen to the coaches are evidently better than Hall's, but he gets stuck with weaker line-mates.

Conclusion: I'm happy with the Pouliot - Hopkins - Eberle line. Everyone on this line knows their role and when Hall isn't in the line-up it's a productive line. I can't for the life of me understand why Hopkins and Eberle don't seem to bring as much intensity when Hall is in the line-up.

Edmonton needs to find a playmaking skater who can move like the wind to make Hall - XXX - a viable line. Hall and Yakupov haven't looked all that great together in the past. Hall always seems incredibly hesitant to pass the puck to Yakupov. They haven't played together much this season, but last season this was obvious and it might have been due to Yakupov being so cursed offensively last season.

I guess I'm pointing my finger at Hall, but it would most likely be a very moot point if we actually had a decent group of d-men and a legit starting goalie.

I hope you enjoy seeing that line getting steam rolled by the Western powerhouses.

 

[harpoon]

Gagner was the problem.
Cogliano was the problem.
Nilsson was the problem.
Smyth was the problem.
Hemsky was the problem.
Whitney was the problem.
Smid was the problem.
Horcoff was the problem.
Dubnyk was the problem.
Bryzgalov was the problem.
Reider was the problem.
Glencross was the problem.
Petry was the problem.
Perron was the problem.
Belanger was the problem.

RNH, Hall, Eberle, and Yakupov are definitely the problem.

Draisaitl, Nurse, and whoever we take with this pick will be the problem.


It is definitely the players and not the same management team that has existed for over a decade of futility.

Smyth-Horc-Perron
Glencross-Gagner-Hemsky
Reider-Arcobello-Cogliano
MPS-Belanger-Omark sarcasm

Whitney-Petry
Smid-Gilbert (you forgot him)
Potter-Fedun

Khabibulin
Bryzgalov

Would that team beat the current Oilers in a seven game series?
Maybe not, but I think it would be closer than most of us would like to admit.

You also forgot Souray on your list ... he was such a bad bad man that we had to send him far away from our impressionable, young lotto picks lest his truth talking counteract the propaganda.

 

[Helistin]

Horc 11g Perron 17g
Glencross 13g Gagner 14g Hemsky 11g
Rieder 13g Arcobello 17g(that's right, he has 17 goals this season) Cogliano 15g

These eight ex-Oiler forwards have a combined 110 goals scored this season. The current top eight Oiler forwards have combined for 117 goals so they still have an slight edge.
But anyways that's a lot of regural NHLers given away for next to nothing playing somewhere else.

 

[CupofOil]

1) They were handed the keys to the franchise with not only being gifted tons of playing time right away without having earned it but also getting those huge contracts based mainly on draft pedigree and in Eberle's case, one big offensive season. They probably felt untouchable as the golden children and never had any fear of being benched for poor play or feeling motivated to play for a big contract.

2) They are being paid as top dogs and realistically, they are great complimentary players. Too much pressure to carry a team and not good enough to do so.
Hall is the closest thing to a star and he has tons of holes in his game.
I like Nuge and Eberle well enough and they are good players who can potentially be very good in due time, but they aren't franchise players. Yak is still struggling to even find his niche as a top 6 player.

3) Lack of support all throughout the lineup. They have been asked to carry the team and handed the keys to the franchise because there's nobody else capable of burdening the load if they aren't performing. Little veteran support to lean on and no lines capable of picking up the scoring slack if they are shut down, Perron was the closest thing they've had and now he's gone.

4) No puck transition ability from the blueline. A big reason why the Flames forwards are ahead of the Oilers forwards is because of Giordano, Brodie, Russell and Wideman all of whom are light years better than any Oiler defender at transitioning the puck to the forwards, even Petry. It's tough for skilled forwards to play at their best when they don't have the puck.

5) 4 coaches in 5 years for Hall and Eberle, 4 coaches in 4 years for RNH and 3 in 3 years for Yak.
That's a shatload of different personalities to deal with and a lot of different systems to constantly have to adjust to over such a short period of time. Continuity is vital for developing young players, otherwise you have the chaos that we see. Furthermore, outside of Renney who I think was a good coach for their early years, they have all been the wrong coaches. Probably Nelson too as I think the Oilers are at a point where they need a vet coach to take them to the next level.

6) It's a bad mix of players. This franchise will never succeed with a core of Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yak and throw Schultz in there. Too soft and not a diverse enough skillset. They are done against teams that lean on them physically and close up their space. It's a predictable outcome every single time against decent to good west teams that they will get neutralized, or at least the west teams that dont' play pond hockey.
I think 1 or 2 will have to be traded at some point.

It's mostly a failure from management for many reasons but a part of it is that they aren't great players and are being counted on to be great players. Not their fault really, it just so happens that the Oilers had the misfortune of drafting #1 in the wrong drafts and they had the misfortune of being managed by the OBC.
They are clearly not the biggest problem but they aren't a big solution either at least not for the roles that they have been given as franchise saviors.

 

[McDeepika]

The problem is that from day one we've tried to rely on these players and only these players to take the team to the promised land. So not only have we failed to do so, we've also hurt all of their development.

We didn't just get unlucky and draft the wrong players. We drafted the right players and ****ed up their development. You always see people ask what would we be like if we'd drafted "Seguin/Landeskog/Murray(or Galchenyk)." We'd be in the exact same place we are now wondering what it would be like if we'd drafted the other three who went on to greater success elsewhere.

All of these players need to be better. Every single one of them. But until this dumb **** management builds a legitimate team of NHLers around them it probably isn't going to happen.

This team hasn't brought in a legitimate bonafide top 4 d-man that can move the puck up the ice in years. The last consistently good top 4 puck mover we had was Lubomir Visnovsky.

That was in 2008 for gods sake. It's been 7 ****ing years.

This mess is 100% squarely on the a management team that is without doubt the worst in the history of the NHL. That has taken a team and turned them into the worst franchise in NHL history.

Anyone remember the last time this team went into a season without massive ****ing holes on the roster. Holes that were glaring to everyone in the hockey world EXCEPT for our management? Yeah... me neither.

Blaming the players who were brought in, provided with no insulation/good players to play with is low. I mean christ... we went into the year with two NHL centers and two third string goalies. Of course this team is terrible.

I think everybody would agree that management is to blame.

I suppose my question is let's say that we get rid of everybody in management and bring in a new staff. Do you think our new GM will be able to build a successful team with these 4 players as focal points?

Again, if we could assume that defense/goaltending/bottom 6 forwards were equal throughout the Western conference. Do our top 4 forwards stack up against the other top teams in the West?

 

[McShogun99]

This team can be successful with Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov if they do a few things besides the obvious of fixing the goaltending and defence. They need 2 third line wingers to play with Lander that are nasty and can wear down the other team, they also need a third pairing defenceman that is a capable NHL defender but will stick up for the young players. This team needs some toughness to give the kids more room out there. I'm not talking about goons like Gazdic but guys like Hartnell or a young Regehr.

 

[Approved Variety]

Nikitin was a top 4 D for about a quarter of a season. Fayne and Klefbom are arguably our only #4D. Ference stopped being a top 4D before we got him.

Are our young forwards infallible? Of course not. Aside from Nuge, none of them play an effective 2-way game.

Are they what's wrong with our D/our team?

****. No.

 

[LTIR]

Yak in 2015:
With Hall playing: 18GP 1G 5A 6pts
With Hall out: 22GP 8G 7A 15pts

 

[Dorian2]

One thing to note here.

Pouliot-Nuge-Ebs
Purcell-Roy-Yaks
Hall-Lander-Miller
Klink-Gordon-Hendricks

Klef-Schultz
Marincin-Fayne
Ference-Nikitin-Aulie-Davidson

What do the bolded have in common?

They're experienced NHLer's.

We don't just need better players (2D 1G 1/2C), we need depth of experience with these young guys.

 

[fancy dan]

hall is the problem.

 

[GMofOilers]

hall is the problem.

I love these kinda posts, tells me alot more about you than it does about Hall.

 

[Mr Positive]

Nikitin was a top 4 D for about a quarter of a season. Fayne and Klefbom are arguably our only #4D. Ference stopped being a top 4D before we got him.

Are our young forwards infallible? Of course not. Aside from Nuge, none of them play an effective 2-way game.

Are they what's wrong with our D/our team?

****. No.

the OP said "part of the problem" so of course it doesn't mean they are the sole issue or even the biggest issue.

The fact that we have the worst defensive play in the league also isn't all on our defense. This isn't the pre-Russian days where players stay in their positions at all times. Like you say, only RNH plays a passable two-way game, and that does put a huge burden on our defensemen. I see other teams' D making screw-ups a lot, but have forwards with the presence of mind to cover most mistakes. I would say that Ebs and Hall aren't horrible in this regard though, just not an asset like RNH is. Yak is much improved in the offensive zone but needs a lot of work on D.