Are Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov part of the problem?

[McDeepika]

A good portion of this board tends to be pretty defensive of our young forwards. The common theme seems to be that they are great young players but just need to be surrounded by better veterans. The defense in particular, gets most of the blame. I hear over and over again how we have no top 4 D. Well believe it or not, Ference was a top 4 dman on a cup winning team. Fayne was a top 4 dman on a team that made it to the finals. Nikitin has history of being a top 4 dman on a semi-competitive team. Most would agree that Petry was a top 4 dman as well. So to start the year, although we had no top pairing dman, we had 4 guys that shouldn't have done as poorly as they did.

Why is it that every top 4 dman we have ever brought in immediately goes to **** the minute he arrives? Maybe its because instead of being helped by forwards like Dubinsky/Zajac/Bergeron they come here and get "helped" by Eberle/Yakupov/Hall/RNH. Does anybody have any faith in our group to help retrieve the puck? It's not hard to game-plan the Oilers. All you have to do is slow the game down and keep it along the boards where you can own our kids all night.

I don't mean to put the blame on the kids as individuals but maybe collectively, they are not the right group. We are built like a football team that has 4 all star receivers but a **** O-line that doesn't give them a chance to run their routes. Maybe 1 or 2 of our skilled forwards have to go in order to bring us some balance?

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[AJGass4]

I would have to say that that gong show Eakins wrecked a lot of things with this team and it's going to take a very good coach and better management to fix anything.

You cannot blame these guys, they are scorers and Hall and Nuge and Ebs and even Yak to some degree have put the puck in the net.

It's bad goaltending and badly formed D that has us in this mess.

Eakins took anything good and tried to change the whole style of play of these guys and it's just sickening to think what might have been had someone had the guts to can this man after season one.

 

[actionjackson]

yes, yes they are...

I have been saying this all year...the Oilers brass have taken some "good" players and evaluated them as worthy of building a team around...the equivalent of the Leafs building a team around Phil Kessel...

As a fan it is hard not to just put on another jersey and stop being miserable...but having been a fan from minute one makes that difficult.

The only hope I have is to watch Philly knock off the Penguins today and keep praying they miss the playoffs...Connor Mcdavid becoming an Oiler when they win the lottery with the Penguins pick is the only way things have a snowball's chance in hell of having something to cheer for in the immediate future!

 

[PKSpecialist]

I would have to say that that gong show Eakins wrecked a lot of things with this team and it's going to take a very good coach and better management to fix anything.

You cannot blame these guys, they are scorers and Hall and Nuge and Ebs and even Yak to some degree have put the puck in the net.

It's bad goaltending and badly formed D that has us in this mess.

Eakins took anything good and tried to change the whole style of play of these guys and it's just sickening to think what might have been had someone had the guts to can this man after season one.

Although Fayne, Ference and Nilitin may have been top 4 guys in the past, they aren't solid puck movers. Petry was good not great at it and it's the one thing Schultz does well, but as a group our D struggle to get the puck to our forwards. Yes, our forwards need to help out more defensively, but a puck moving D like Hanifin would sure help down the road.

 

[Jmask83]

No. They are good players. We have waaaaaaaaaaay bigger problems.

On a good team you have to have the following.

1. Goaltending - oilers have the worst
2. Defence- AHL
3. Center - only one of the guys mentioned is a centre
4. Wing - the is our strength in the top 6.
5- coaching

If you take care of the top 3 you can easily succeed with those players.

 

[GMofOilers]

One is not like the other 3 lol

 

[Replacement*]

One is not like the other 3 lol

Predictable response. Yeah, one doesn't play on the topline. Interestingly the one was better than any of the others last night. 1 minute into the game Yak cranks a longrange shot that is so dangerous, and labeled, that Ramo injures himself desperately making the splits to make the toe save. Ramo out of the game at that point due to an excellent shot. Yak proceeds in the game to have 4 good scoring chances and yes its his fault he didn't finish any. But the one thing you didn't see from Yak is giving up. He was still playing physical, still engaged, and still trying to make plays in the 2nd and 3rd.

Conversely Eberle and Hall played 1 good period last night. Hall made the type of play last night that he would have screamed at Yak if Nail had made that play. Seriously, think about it. Hall is masturbating with the puck at his own blueline trying to do god knows what, gets completely stripped like an idiot and Scrivens bails him out on the ensuing breakaway. That play was plain ugly. For about 3mins of his life Hall is embarrassed at the play. Played one more shift in the game with intensity trying to make up for his grievous error, then continued to try to force plays and make turnovers.
Eberle most of the night was giving an Omark impression of taking the puck into the zone, freezing, getting easily sealed off the puck and Flames moving up ice with Eberle caught. No exaggeration this happened to Jordan 10 times last night.

 

[BudBundy]

Hall, Nuge, Ebs, Yak part of the problem? Yes, but only to a point. Hall is covering his spot very well and the Oilers suffer without him. He could be a bit smarter on D assignments but that's nitpicking. Nuge is showing signs of being a solution, but he isn't yet able to match the likes of Toews, Kopitar etc and he needs to. Yak and Ebs are good complimentary players but skill wingers cannot make up for weak D, weak centre depth, and horrible goaltending.

 

[Jmask83]

Predictable response. Yeah, one doesn't play on the topline. Interestingly the one was better than any of the others last night. 1 minute into the game Yak cranks a longrange shot that is so dangerous, and labeled, that Ramo injures himself desperately making the splits to make the toe save. Ramo out of the game at that point due to an excellent shot. Yak proceeds in the game to have 4 good scoring chances and yes its his fault he didn't finish any. But the one thing you didn't see from Yak is giving up. He was still playing physical, still engaged, and still trying to make plays in the 2nd and 3rd.

Conversely Eberle and Hall played 1 good period last night. Hall made the type of play last night that he would have screamed at Yak if Nail had made that play. Seriously, think about it. Hall is masturbating with the puck at his own blueline trying to do god knows what, gets completely stripped like an idiot and Scrivens bails him out. For about 3mins of his life Hall is embarrassed at the play. Played one more shift in the game with intensity trying to make up for his grievous error, than continued to try to force plays and make turnovers.
Eberle most of the night was giving an Omark impression of taking the puck into the zone, freezing, getting easily sealed off the puck and Flames moving up ice with Eberle caught. No exaggeration this happened to Jordan 10 times last night.

Masturbating?? Auto correct? Lol

 

[GMofOilers]

Predictable response. Yeah, one doesn't play on the topline. Interestingly the one was better than any of the others last night. 1 minute into the game Yak cranks a longrange shot that is so dangerous, and labeled, that Ramo injures himself desperately making the splits to make the toe save. Ramo out of the game at that point due to an excellent shot. Yak proceeds in the game to have 4 good scoring chances and yes its his fault he didn't finish any. But the one thing you didn't see from Yak is giving up. He was still playing physical, still engaged, and still trying to make plays in the 2nd and 3rd.

Conversely Eberle and Hall played 1 good period last night. Hall made the type of play last night that he would have screamed at Yak if Nail had made that play. Seriously, think about it. Hall is masturbating with the puck at his own blueline trying to do god knows what, gets completely stripped like an idiot and Scrivens bails him out. For about 3mins of his life Hall is embarrassed at the play. Played one more shift in the game with intensity trying to make up for his grievous error, than continued to try to force plays and make turnovers.
Eberle most of the night was giving an Omark impression of taking the puck into the zone, freezing, getting easily sealed off the puck and Flames moving up ice with Eberle caught. No exaggeration this happened to Jordan 10 times last night.

Hall was forced to play center last night, Im sure he and his line should get a little b it of leeway for that? No?

 

[Zaddy]

No they are not part of the problem. I used to think that they might be (under Eakins) but now with Nelson hired you can clearly see the kids had nothing to do with it. They are now playing like you'd expect out of these guys and what is missing is depth.

With that being said, yes, I think the group is flawed. They are fine players but we don't have the right mix, at least not yet. If we had a big, strong two-way C to play with Hall and Yak, and Yak took another step forward then yes that might work, because Poo-RNH-Ebs has been playing some pretty great hockey lately. But for years past we really haven't had that right mix up front while having an atrocious D.

I still think it'd be for the best to trade one of Hall/Eberle/Yak to make us a more balanced team. None of them are very good defensively and could all bring back good pieces. Hall is a great player but if there's anyone on our team who could net us what we need going forward I think it's him. The return from Hall combined with our high pick this year and having Nurse, Klefbom, Draisaitl should give us a bright future going forward. Unfortunately a move like that will never happen.

 

[Replacement*]

Some specific observable problems.

After 100's of games of NHL play some of our star kids still don't know how to effectively cycle a puck. They had intent, and in the first period some good resolve, but not one of our topline seems to comprehend passing the puck into an area, a spot, when an open pass isn't available. Most premier players comprehend this and even Yak and Roy frequently work the puck into areas and read off each other where they will be. (not fantastically by any means but they at least put the puck into areas) With Eberle its like his brain is stuck on this. If there isn't a perfect straight line pass to be made he's incapable of what to do.

Last night in the LA Kings game no less than Dustin Brown, a 3rd liner, made 3 snooker passes to team mates OFF THE BOARDS to retain puck control. Not talking chips off boards either (which LA also does a lot) but real bounce passes off boards. you will see the Oilers stars executing such a play never. As if the boards don't even exist as a resource.

Finally, a lot of people will make excuses about lack of mentors. I kind of doubt how much deference these players would even make to mentors in anycase. Yak, who vocally prefers having one, would be the exception and has made it known in words, play, and action that he prefers having a vet center like Roy to teach him.

The keystone kids prefer playing with each other and in the words of Eberle "It sucks when we're not on the first line playing with each other"

So we have a first line that several years into their gig are continuing to stumble incoherently out there and haven't learned to play NHL hockey yet.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

No.

One day people will whine about them and run them out of town, only to see them become true stars. The problem is management, but fans will always drink the Koolaid. The fact that you think 4 different young players with different playing styles and backgrounds are part of the problem shows me that it's probably something to do with the team and not them individually.

 

[Jmask83]

One thing about Yak. He is playing with Roy who I have noticed is unable to play against the bigger western teams. He tries very hard but he just can't. He is great against the east and teams like Colorado. Yak is a winger he relies on his Center getting him the puck. Its not happening against western conference teams.

 

[Replacement*]

Hall was forced to play center last night, Im sure he and his line should get a little b it of leeway for that? No?

I was prepared to give Hall all sorts of credit after the first period in which I felt he rose to the occasion, played well, and pursued the game. A Hall at Center experiment would be interesting more often as he has the physical skills, speed, strength, and could slide into it like Mess learned to. But like Mess he would have to learn a lot more all round fundamentals.

I gave no such credit in the 2nd and 3rd periods in which he was horrible. Taylor Hall would look at you today and probably say he played bad and needs to be better.

If you know my posting history I'm not riding Hall either. I tend to think he's the best player on this team.

But man, the kid, and really I should stop calling him that, should learn.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Nikitin-#8 by the Time he was done in CBJ
Ference- wasn't resigned by Boston for a reason

 

[McDeepika]

I would have to say that that gong show Eakins wrecked a lot of things with this team and it's going to take a very good coach and better management to fix anything.

You cannot blame these guys, they are scorers and Hall and Nuge and Ebs and even Yak to some degree have put the puck in the net.

It's bad goaltending and badly formed D that has us in this mess.

Eakins took anything good and tried to change the whole style of play of these guys and it's just sickening to think what might have been had someone had the guts to can this man after season one.

I am not blaming them as individuals. I think all of them could have a role to play on a good team. My question is can they all play a role on the same team? Every team needs scorers but what good if having a bunch of scorers if bigger stronger players never let them get the puck?

I just think it has become way to easy to blame the D (yes they are bad). Thing is in today's NHL, teams defend with 5 man units. Your forwards have to be able to retrieve the puck just as much as your D.

A good example is 2006/2007. Our D that year was Smith, Staios, Tjarnqvist, Bergeron, Smid (20 year old rookie) and Greene (23 year old rookie). That is a pretty awful group of dmen. Well that team still was in the playoff race up until February at which point injuries hit and we traded Smyth. The reason that team was able to get by with such a bad defense is it had forwards like Smyth/Horcoff/Stoll in it's top 6. Guys who would win battles all along the ice.

 

[ponokanocker]

Yes they are. They act entitled and when they play poorly, don't get benched. Management is to blame in my opinion.

 

[Aerchon]

RNH is not. I bet on that anyway.

Hall maybe because of his competitive nature but that is also why I want him for as long as posible.

Eberle is not a problem on his own. But. He is too small, not good enough 2 way, against Western Conference opponents. His only problem is the composition of the ret of the team.

As Hall and Rnh get better/experienced I don't expect the top 3 to be THE problem. Surround them with capable big guys and I have no problem with any of them.

I am a Yak fan and I am glad he has shown improvement but let's truely put the blame where it should be. Teams focus on getting there best players against our worst and that is obviously any line Yak is a part of. He has games where he goes in for the odd check but make no mistake he fears contact and plays a Eruo style of keep away. His gap control is terrible and he rarely goes to the tough areas. Something all the above have improved on dramatically. I know he has improved and will improve so don't mind keeping him but Yak is the clear cut addition by subtraction if you think that way.

The defensemen and then the goaltending are obviously more of the problem than anything mentioned above but that's not really what this thread is about.

 

[Replacement*]

I would have to say that that gong show Eakins wrecked a lot of things with this team and it's going to take a very good coach and better management to fix anything.

You cannot blame these guys, they are scorers and Hall and Nuge and Ebs and even Yak to some degree have put the puck in the net.

It's bad goaltending and badly formed D that has us in this mess.

Eakins took anything good and tried to change the whole style of play of these guys and it's just sickening to think what might have been had someone had the guts to can this man after season one.

Nah, nobody gets a free pass.

Yak-4 scoring chances, only his first shot was well placed. Muffed the rest of them right into logos.

Eberle- 3 scoring chances, finished none. On one play Eberle has all day in the slot and muffs a routine shot instead of taking time and changing angle and beating goalie.

Hall - 3-4 scoring chances, finished none.

Now look at the Granlund goal (and Hall had two of these gimme opportunities going the opposite way) Granlund shows quick shot, doesn't, know's he has time, and waits for Scrivens who has to lunge across to try to make save to fall out of position. The key being he waited, and roofed it.

Not one of the Oilers showed that kind of poise last night.

Fact of the matter is you win zero games in which you score zero goals. The Oilers stars were zeros last night as they all too often are.

 

[Jmask83]

I am not blaming them as individuals. I think all of them could have a role to play on a good team. My question is can they all play a role on the same team? Every team needs scorers but what good if having a bunch of scorers if bigger stronger players never let them get the puck?

I just think it has become way to easy to blame the D (yes they are bad). Thing is in today's NHL, teams defend with 5 man units. Your forwards have to be able to retrieve the puck just as much as your D.

A good example is 2006/2007. Our D that year was Smith, Staios, Tjarnqvist, Bergeron, Smid (20 year old rookie) and Greene (23 year old rookie). That is a pretty awful group of dmen. Well that team still was in the playoff race up until February at which point injuries hit and we traded Smyth. The reason that team was able to get by with such a bad defense is it had forwards like Smyth/Horcoff/Stoll in it's top 6. Guys who would win battles all along the ice.

Yes but we also had Roloson. Who had a respectable GAA and sav %

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I am not blaming them as individuals. I think all of them could have a role to play on a good team. My question is can they all play a role on the same team? Every team needs scorers but what good if having a bunch of scorers if bigger stronger players never let them get the puck?

I just think it has become way to easy to blame the D (yes they are bad). Thing is in today's NHL, teams defend with 5 man units. Your forwards have to be able to retrieve the puck just as much as your D.

A good example is 2006/2007. Our D that year was Smith, Staios, Tjarnqvist, Bergeron, Smid (20 year old rookie) and Greene (23 year old rookie). That is a pretty awful group of dmen. Well that team still was in the playoff race up until February at which point injuries hit and we traded Smyth. The reason that team was able to get by with such a bad defense is it had forwards like Smyth/Horcoff/Stoll in it's top 6. Guys who would win battles all along the ice.

Here is the thing you don't get...

Those defensemen has the ability to move the puck and hold the line. When your d can't do that, offensive players can't play offensively. When you have no d that can clear the defensive zone or the front of the net the forwards look even worse as well.

Like how many times do you watch the team gain zone entry, get a shot off and the puck come right out of the zone cause the d either decided to pinch or randomly jump into the play of decided to line change and no one is there to defend so a forward who was trying to make the play has to skate hard back to make a defensive play as the d has no idea what is going on.

 

[Replacement*]

RNH is not. I bet on that anyway.

Hall maybe because of his competitive nature but that is also why I want him for as long as posible.

Eberle is not a problem on his own. But. He is too small, not good enough 2 way, against Western Conference opponents. His only problem is the composition of the ret of the team.

As Hall and Rnh get better/experienced I don't expect the top 3 to be THE problem. Surround them with capable big guys and I have no problem with any of them.

I am a Yak fan and I am glad he has shown improvement but let's truely put the blame where it should be. Teams focus on getting there best players against our worst and that is obviously any line Yak is a part of. He has games where he goes in for the odd check but make no mistake he fears contact and plays a Eruo style of keep away. His gap control is terrible and he rarely goes to the tough areas. Something all the above have improved on dramatically. I know he has improved and will improve so don't mind keeping him but Yak is the clear cut addition by subtraction if you think that way.

The defensemen and then the goaltending are obviously more of the problem than anything mentioned above but that's not really what this thread is about.

Nuge has 32 GP this season being kept off the scoresheet. Being the #1 Center on a team loaded with offensive weapons. He'll finish the year with 56 pts with a 50 pt season only being salvaged on a multitude of outings against weak opponents. 4 pts against Carolina, 3 pts against Colorado etc.

Think about it Nuge doesn't hit 50 this year without some big games playing really putrid opponents. Getting kept off the scoresheet 32 times? Completely unacceptable.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Nah, nobody gets a free pass.

Yak-4 scoring chances, only his first shot was well placed. Muffed the rest of them right into logos.

Eberle- 3 scoring chances, finished none. On one play Eberle has all day in the slot and muffs a routine shot instead of taking time and changing angle and beating goalie.

Hall - 3-4 scoring chances, finished none.

Now look at the Granlund goal (and Hall had two of these gimme opportunities going the opposite way) Granlund shows quick shot, doesn't, know's he has time, and waits for Scrivens who has to lunge across to try to make save to fall out of position. The key being he waited, and roofed it.

Not one of the Oilers showed that kind of poise last night.

Fact of the matter is you win zero games in which you score zero goals. The Oilers stars were zeros last night as they all too often are.

Hiller was very poised last night while Scrivens wasn't on most of the goals. Also their d made it hard for our guys to take the time to shoot.

If our forwards are so bad let's trade them all for late 1sts and seconds!

 

[GMofOilers]

I was prepared to give Hall all sorts of credit after the first period in which I felt he rose to the occasion, played well, and pursued the game. A Hall at Center experiment would be interesting more often as he has the physical skills, speed, strength, and could slide into it like Mess learned to. But like Mess he would have to learn a lot more all round fundamentals.

I gave no such credit in the 2nd and 3rd periods in which he was horrible. Taylor Hall would look at you today and probably say he played bad and needs to be better.

If you know my posting history I'm not riding Hall either. I tend to think he's the best player on this team.

But man, the kid, and really I should stop calling him that, should learn.

The going got tough in the 2nd and 3rd, as they were playing in their own end a lot more, and when the center doesnt know where to go thats what happens.

You called out Hall and Eberle to defend Yak in your previous post.

Funny how Yak can get excuse after excuse yet Hall at center cant be a excuse.