Are Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov part of the problem?

[Jumptheshark]

I love these kinda posts, tells me alot more about you than it does about Hall.

Players have started playing poorly since his return. He is a ME guy. For a guy who has done nothing at the nhl level. He tosses a big shadow.

 

[Replacement*]

I love these kinda posts, tells me alot more about you than it does about Hall.

Word.

Players have started playing poorly since his return. He is a ME guy. For a guy who has done nothing at the nhl level. He tosses a big shadow.

Exhibit A.

oh my.

if getting 80pts and being 7th in scoring last year is "casting a big shadow" I wish more Oilers would take up the task.

Damn all those Calgary Flames deciding to play their best and casting shadows all over.

cept they only look like shadows if you're lying down..

 

[Fourier]

Players have started playing poorly since his return. He is a ME guy. For a guy who has done nothing at the nhl level. He tosses a big shadow.

They started to play worse when the ran into very good teams desperate for wins and they got AHL goaltending behind an AHL defense.

 

[McDeepika]

the OP said "part of the problem" so of course it doesn't mean they are the sole issue or even the biggest issue.

The fact that we have the worst defensive play in the league also isn't all on our defense. This isn't the pre-Russian days where players stay in their positions at all times. Like you say, only RNH plays a passable two-way game, and that does put a huge burden on our defensemen. I see other teams' D making screw-ups a lot, but have forwards with the presence of mind to cover most mistakes. I would say that Ebs and Hall aren't horrible in this regard though, just not an asset like RNH is. Yak is much improved in the offensive zone but needs a lot of work on D.

This is kind of my biggest point. Everybody is quick to point our how our D doesn't help our forwards because they can't make good passes out of the zone. I don't disagree with any of that.

I think what hasn't been stated enough is how our forwards don't help our D. Replacement makes a good point about the lack of cycle game. Having those shifts in the opponents end for 30-40 seconds does a lot to keep the D from getting exposed. The one and done rushes that our forwards seem to rely on just puts the D right back under siege.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Yak in 2015:
With Hall playing: 18GP 1G 5A 6pts
With Hall out: 22GP 8G 7A 15pts

How much of that is a reduction in ice time though? IMO the biggest issue right now is too many AHLers on our team. Petry's loss was huge to us. I hope that those picks pan out or are used to find a replacement for him.

 

[Tarus]

Players have started playing poorly since his return. He is a ME guy. For a guy who has done nothing at the nhl level. He tosses a big shadow.

Yes, they were playing so well the month he was out(2 - 6 - 3), and have been doing so poorly since he came back(4 - 4 - 0).

That 4 win and 1 loss record against non-playoff teams with Hall in the lineup when he got back from injury was just a mirage, he didn't have enough time to spread his cancerous way to make the team tank games against Anahiem, LA, and Calgary - teams the Oilers always beat because they match up so well against them.

 

[Dorian2]

Players have started playing poorly since his return. He is a ME guy. For a guy who has done nothing at the nhl level. He tosses a big shadow.

The Oilers have had some key Dmen out since Hall's return JTS.

 

[GMofOilers]

Word.

Exhibit A.

oh my.

if getting 80pts and being 7th in scoring last year is "casting a big shadow" I wish more Oilers would take up the task.

Damn all those Calgary Flames deciding to play their best and casting shadows all over.

cept they only look like shadows if you're lying down..

Thanks

 

[fancy dan]

I love these kinda posts, tells me alot more about you than it does about Hall.

you have no idea what i know.

 

[Approved Variety]

you have no idea what i know.

I'm not sure you do, either.

 

[Aerchon]

Revised your list to actually make some sense.

Gagner was the problem. Most certainly one of them.
Hemsky was the problem. Maybe a tiny bit.
Whitney was the problem.
Horcoff was the problem. Top ten worst contracts of all time IMO.
Dubnyk was the problem. Despite his current success was certainly a part of the problem while he was here.
Belanger was the problem. Not as bad as others.
Gilbert was the problem.
Hunt was the problem.
Schultz and Yak are the two most current problems.

It is definitely the players and not the same management team that has existed for over a decade of futility.

In ranking order:

1. Management.
2. Coaching.
3. Defense.
4. Goaltending.
5. Team size/2 way/grit.

 

[GMofOilers]

you have no idea what i know.

We will leave it at that........

 

[Spawn]

Players have started playing poorly since his return. He is a ME guy. For a guy who has done nothing at the nhl level. He tosses a big shadow.

Now I've heard it all. It's Taylor Hall's fault that other players don't perform when he isn't even on the ice with them. For a ME guy, he sure seemed awfully willing to play on the 3rd line in order to keep the chemistry of the top two lines, despite being the best player on the team. Give me a break. If there are players who can't perform from the first line because of a player playing on the 3rd line. Then it's not the guy on the 3rd line who is the problem. It would be the players who are that mentally feeble on the first line. Luckily you're just completely out to lunch. This team is icing an AHL caliber defense, has the worst center depth in the league and has had abysmal goaltending. They've been schooled all year by good teams. With or without Hall. Such ******** to suggest he's the reason the team isn't performing. They were abysmal before he came back. Absolutely horrible. 4-4 since he's been back. 2-6-3 with him out. Yeah. He's making the players perform poorly. Sheer lunacy.

Don't know what it is about Oiler fans who just love to hate their best players. It's just crazy how driven this fan base seems to be at driving away it's few good players. Nothing in the NHL. Two top 10 finishes in league scoring suggests otherwise.

 

[McAsuno]

Lol, good god. Now its apparently back to the Hall's the problem. Give me a break with stupid rumors. Hall's arrogant off the ice? Don't give a ****, as long as he plays well on the ice. What a joke the past posts about Hall are. Completely ludicrous.

But hey, garbage tending along with an AHL defense is Hall's fault too right?

 

[Connor Mcdavey*]

Now I've heard it all. It's Taylor Hall's fault that other players don't perform when he isn't even on the ice with them. For a ME guy, he sure seemed awfully willing to play on the 3rd line in order to keep the chemistry of the top two lines, despite being the best player on the team. Give me a break. If there are players who can't perform from the first line because of a player playing on the 3rd line. Then it's not the guy on the 3rd line who is the problem. It would be the players who are that mentally feeble on the first line. Luckily you're just completely out to lunch. This team is icing an AHL caliber defense, has the worst center depth in the league and has had abysmal goaltending. They've been schooled all year by good teams. With or without Hall. Such ******** to suggest he's the reason the team isn't performing. They were abysmal before he came back. Absolutely horrible. 4-4 since he's been back. 2-6-3 with him out. Yeah. He's making the players perform poorly. Sheer lunacy.

Don't know what it is about Oiler fans who just love to hate their best players. It's just crazy how driven this fan base seems to be at driving away it's few good players. Nothing in the NHL. Two top 10 finishes in league scoring suggests otherwise.

I don't care how many top 10 point finishes he has. When you have to sacrifice such bad defence and perform bone headed giveaways to get 80 points for one season, he doesn't deserve to be exempt from criticism and definitely doesn't deserve to be heralded a 80 point player. Hall is not perfect, please don't make it seem like he is such a god on this team. He puts up points, anyone with 2 eyes could see that. Does he play a game that allows our team to win games? That's what I'm really concerned about.

 

[rasarhdasd]

Oh man, this 180 degree turn on Hall is hilarious to witness.

Hall doesn't play a game that allows the Oilers to win? What a meaningless statement. Hall constantly pushes play in the right direction, and the Oilers are significantly better with Hall on the ice than without. He's easily their best player. It's not that hard guys.

I swear Edmonton fans can't enjoy their star players. It's all about the grinders and guys who play 'good defense', which means they can't score but they hit/fight so fans worship them.

 

[Spawn]

I don't care how many top 10 point finishes he has. When you have to sacrifice such bad defence and perform bone headed giveaways to get 80 points for one season, he doesn't deserve to be exempt from criticism and definitely doesn't deserve to be heralded a 80 point player. Hall is not perfect, please don't make it seem like he is such a god on this team. He puts up points, anyone with 2 eyes could see that. Does he play a game that allows our team to win games? That's what I'm really concerned about.

Huh? How did you get "Hall's perfect" out of my post?

However, it's absurd that people are blaming the failures of players on different lines on Taylor Hall. Like he's some sort of dark overloard watching over the players, and his mere presence down the bench makes them all too nervous to perform well.

That screams some of the craziest anti-player bias I've ever seen on this board.

Oh and for a player who has such horrible defensive play you'd think he'd be on the ice for more goals against. The last three games where the Oilers have been outscored 17-3, Hall's been on the ice for one goal against. No one denies that Taylor Hall has defensive lapses, or that he makes bad giveaways, particularly at both bluelines. He needs to improve his decision making in that regard, no doubt about it. But to question whether he is able to be a positive contributor or help you win is bizarre. Taylor Hall is -2 on a team that has given up 84 more goals for than against. That's tied for the best on the team among our regulars. Even with his bad defensive plays, he still moves the puck in the right direction better than anyone else on the team.

 

[Connor Mcdavey*]

Oh man, this 180 degree turn on Hall is hilarious to witness.

Hall doesn't play a game that allows the Oilers to win? What a meaningless statement. Hall constantly pushes play in the right direction, and the Oilers are significantly better with Hall on the ice than without. He's easily their best player. It's not that hard guys.

I swear Edmonton fans can't enjoy their star players. It's all about the grinders and guys who play 'good defense', which means they can't score but they hit/fight so fans worship them.

It isn't a 180 degree turn if I was never a fan of his.
I'll be excited to see what he does at the World Championships. Because last time he went he didn't get a lick of ice time because of his bad play and arrogance towards protecting the puck. The only difference is an actual coach wasn't afraid to call him out on it, here in Edmonton if he makes a stupid mistake he gets a pat on his bum instead of discipline.

And how are we significantly better if we've lost the last 3 straight and scored a whopping 3 goals combined?

I just don't understand how someone who makes 6 million a year, and is relied upon to help the team win , not pad his stats, hasn't gotten our team better than 22 best in the league, and has seen us in the basement for 4 years now (RNH, Yak, Drai, and now this year). There's a reason why fans don't like him, it's not because he isn't a grinder, it's because he's a selfish player who's only concern is padding his stats in a meaningless season.

I've never heard any one say anything positive about Hall outside of the ice rink. I hear regularly that he's a ******, he's a *****, he's cocky, etc. Not that this has an impact on the kind of player he is, but it tells what kind of person he is ; and maybe his team mates don't respect it and maybe that's a reason why he isn't captain of this team yet.

 

[McAsuno]

It isn't a 180 degree turn if I was never a fan of his.
I'll be excited to see what he does at the World Championships. Because last time he went he didn't get a lick of ice time because of his bad play and arrogance towards protecting the puck. The only difference is an actual coach wasn't afraid to call him out on it, here in Edmonton if he makes a stupid mistake he gets a pat on his bum instead of discipline.

And how are we significantly better if we've lost the last 3 straight and scored a whopping 3 goals combined?

I just don't understand how someone who makes 6 million a year, and is relied upon to help the team win , not pad his stats, hasn't gotten our team better than 22 best in the league, and has seen us in the basement for 4 years now (RNH, Yak, Drai, and now this year). There's a reason why fans don't like him, it's not because he isn't a grinder, it's because he's a selfish player who's only concern is padding his stats in a meaningless season.

I've never heard any one say anything positive about Hall outside of the ice rink. I hear regularly that he's a ******, he's a *****, he's cocky, etc. Not that this has an impact on the kind of player he is, but it tells what kind of person he is ; and maybe his team mates don't respect it and maybe that's a reason why he isn't captain of this team yet.

Your disdain for Hall never seems to surprise me. How on earth is he selfish? I've seen him pass the puck to guys that struggled like Yak last season. You do recall that game against the jets, where he passed the puck to yak to score. Results? He highfived Yak and genuinely looked happy for him. He played 3rd line with Lander and Miller, and never complained. As a matter of fact, that line was great. Honestly, people hear and say ****, but it doesn't mean that its true. I personally met Hall a couple of times, and he was nice to me. Enough of the i heard rumors and ****. And who knows why he isn't captain? Could that apply to RNH as well? Give me a break. Not a team player ; selfish. What a bunch of lies.

 

[Spawn]

I just don't understand how someone who makes 6 million a year, and is relied upon to help the team win , not pad his stats, hasn't gotten our team better than 22 best in the league, and has seen us in the basement for 4 years now (RNH, Yak, Drai, and now this year). There's a reason why fans don't like him, it's not because he isn't a grinder, it's because he's a selfish player who's only concern is padding his stats in a meaningless season.

Hall hasn't gotten our team better than 22nd because we literally have the worst management of all time. Like literally. We routinely go into years with gaping holes all over the roster. We have a manegement team that traded for two goalies who were other teams 3rd stringers and counted on them to be able to be starters. We have a management that thinks it was okay to go into the year with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Boyd Gordon as the only two NHL centers on the team. We have a management that thinks Nikita Nikitin, who was Columbus' 7th d-man after we traded them Nick Shultz, is a top 4 d-man. We have a management that refuses to admit when they make a mistake. IE firing the coach that saw the team improve for the first time ever, hiring an absolute gong show of an NHL coach with no head coach experience, and then waiting a year too long before trying to correct that mistake.

That's why this team has never been better than 22nd. It's not because of players like Hall, RNH, and Eberle. It's because the rest of the roster is a complete and utter embarrassment and there are absolutely zero signs that the management has any clue what they are doing or that they will be able to fix it in the slightest.

 

[Connor Mcdavey*]

[NHL][/NHL]

Your disdain for Hall never seems to surprise me. How on earth is he selfish? I've seen him pass the puck to guys that struggled like Yak last season. You do recall that game against the jets, where he passed the puck to yak to score. Results? He highfived Yak and genuinely looked happy for him. He played 3rd line with Lander and Miller, and never complained. As a matter of fact, that line was great. Honestly, people hear and say ****, but it doesn't mean that its true. I personally met Hall a couple of times, and he was nice to me. Enough of the i heard rumors and ****. And who knows why he isn't captain? Could that apply to RNH as well? Give me a break. Not a team player ; selfish. What a bunch of lies.

I'm sorry, I'm trying not to show disdain. Good points though, I guess I didn't think about it that way

 

[Connor Mcdavey*]

Hall hasn't gotten our team better than 22nd because we literally have the worst management of all time. Like literally. We routinely go into years with gaping holes all over the roster. We have a manegement team that traded for two goalies who were other teams 3rd stringers and counted on them to be able to be starters. We have a management that thinks it was okay to go into the year with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Boyd Gordon as the only two NHL centers on the team. We have a management that thinks Nikita Nikitin, who was Columbus' 7th d-man after we traded them Nick Shultz, is a top 4 d-man. We have a management that refuses to admit when they make a mistake. IE firing the coach that saw the team improve for the first time ever, hiring an absolute gong show of an NHL coach with no head coach experience, and then waiting a year too long before trying to correct that mistake.

That's why this team has never been better than 22nd. It's not because of players like Hall, RNH, and Eberle. It's because the rest of the roster is a complete and utter embarrassment and there are absolutely zero signs that the management has any clue what they are doing or that they will be able to fix it in the slightest.

That's true, our management isn't helping by keeping all these obvious holes unfilled. Good point, didn't consider that

 

[Up the Irons]

Revised your list to actually make some sense.



In ranking order:

1. Management.
2. Coaching.
3. Defense.
4. Goaltending.
5. Team size/2 way/grit.

Pretty much,tho I mite not rank coaching so highly (poorly?) now that Eakins is gone. Management is, far and away, the weakest link in the organization.

 

[Up the Irons]

Hall hasn't gotten our team better than 22nd because we literally have the worst management of all time. Like literally. We routinely go into years with gaping holes all over the roster. We have a manegement team that traded for two goalies who were other teams 3rd stringers and counted on them to be able to be starters. We have a management that thinks it was okay to go into the year with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Boyd Gordon as the only two NHL centers on the team. We have a management that thinks Nikita Nikitin, who was Columbus' 7th d-man after we traded them Nick Shultz, is a top 4 d-man. We have a management that refuses to admit when they make a mistake. IE firing the coach that saw the team improve for the first time ever, hiring an absolute gong show of an NHL coach with no head coach experience, and then waiting a year too long before trying to correct that mistake.

That's why this team has never been better than 22nd. It's not because of players like Hall, RNH, and Eberle. It's because the rest of the roster is a complete and utter embarrassment and there are absolutely zero signs that the management has any clue what they are doing or that they will be able to fix it in the slightest.

Hear. Hear.

 

[Soundwave]

The franchise sucks. That's why it's not any good. Trying to pin it on Hall is a load of crap.

Not to mention they were like 4-1 with Hall back and playing probably some of their best hockey of the year.

They just ran into the brick wall of having to play Anaheim and LA again and then Fayne/Ference get injured to basically strip an already terrible blue line down to an AHL group. Then RNH is apparently playing hurt the last couple of games and can't even go in the Calgary game at all.

Oh and Scrivens decides to poop the bed and allow a goal on the first shot of a game like four straight times.

That's what happened. Hall's played well overall since coming back.

Even during the LA blowout, he finished a +1.

Hall is one of the only 3 really good players this team has. The rest of it is garbage or spare parts (sorry Yak, you gotta actually produce if you want to be grouped with the other three).