All purpose trade/roster building thread the 13th

[Penaltykiller17]

Our previous moves haven’t all worked out very well. We are cap restrained. I don’t believe anyone is taking one of our goalies without us taking the same money back. This makes moving one our goalies and then beating market price for a ufa less than likely. I’m more worried about signing Dougie at this point.

Really big issue is that we are officially in our window to win a cup based on age. This is this groups prime....right now. Every year we don’t take a stab we are wasting the best years of these players careers. Slavin/Pesce/Dougie(?)/Skjei/Aho/TT and I think Svech are all where they need to be. All the others are prime aged as well including Trocheck, Marty, Foegele, with young legs in Geekie/Necas/hopefully Bean pushing their way in the picture.

Wherever the gaps are this management is on the clock to make that core win a cup or at least start threatening. We clearly aren’t there yet. We can’t just hope on the current group improving.

I could easily see a team with a UFA goalie taking on either of our goalies contract in the event there player switches teams. Mrazek and/or Reimer’s contracts are expiring, and are a relative bargain compared to what some other goalies their caliber make.

And while I agree that resigning Hamilton is more of a priority, it isn’t the only thing GMDW should focus on. And if you think we’re in our window of opportunity, why wouldn’t you also be in search for a better goaltender?

 

[bleedgreen]

I could easily see a team with a UFA goalie taking on either of our goalies contract in the event there player switches teams. Mrazek and/or Reimer’s contracts are expiring, and are a relative bargain compared to what some other goalies their caliber make.

And while I agree that resigning Hamilton is more of a priority, it isn’t the only thing GMDW should focus on. And if you think we’re in our window of opportunity, why wouldn’t you also be in search for a better goaltender?

Of course we’re looking for a better goaltender. I’m just saying I don’t think we’re in a great spot to pick one up that’s an improvement. As part of that I also don’t share your optimism that someone is going to just take on one of our guys contracts.

I’m not advocating we stay with what we have, I’m acknowledging the possibility that’s what might happen due to the circumstances. Our goaltending is good enough to get us further if we improve the team overall and are healthy enough in the playoffs. We can make it at least as far as we have with these goalies, no second line and no Pesce. Losing Dougie sets us back at a time we need to push forward.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Low key FA signings:

Alexander Wennberg. I would expect him to be bought out. I think him on a go team would be much better for him than the trap style of Columbus.

Simmonds: a one year minimum deal at the most. 13th forward option that we hope turns into younger Simmonds now that he is healthy

pitlick: if we move one of lefty 4th liners, Pitlick would be a good RS 4th liner. He likes to hit.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Well, I see two things that are good even given our current situation. One, our management isn't afraid to wheel and deal. They probably won't be as aggressive in making moves as last year, but if anyone can move some stuff around, it's this management. Whether it works or not, we'll see.

Also, if we can't move out all that we like due to flat cap and whatnot, we now know this team can and maybe will be aggressive at the deadline. The team largely as is will be a playoff contender, and we have the capital to make major moves at the deadline if needed. It's not as nice as having the guy to fit in the whole year, but it can help if the cap space just isn't there until the deadline.

 

[spockBokk]

Assuming the worst and they end up having to trade Hamilton, who out there would you most like to replace him?

-Vatanen?

-(gulp)...Barrie?

-Hamonic?

-Someone else via trade? Ristolainen?

There’s no replacement for what Hamilton brings, but there likely won’t be a better time to at least try to replace him via ufa or trade than this coming offseason.

 

[emptyNedder]

Well, I see two things that are good

One, our management isn't afraid to wheel and deal.

we now know this team can and maybe will be aggressive at the deadline

For me those are mixed blessings.

1) Watching the WCF, the front office missed by parting with Roy. He makes good plays all over the ice and almost every shift. Gardiner is a mixed bag and might be keeping Bean from needed development. Dzingel didn't make a big difference.

2) None of Trocheck, Skjei, or Vatanen got the Canes out of the first round. As I mentioned last week, I thought Tampa's acquisition of Coleman was sound. But the Canes might not be quite to that point-- the players the Canes acquired don't change the team's makeup the way a player like Coleman changed Tampa.

 

[A Star is Burns]

For me those are mixed blessings.

1) Watching the WCF, the front office missed by parting with Roy. He makes good plays all over the ice and almost every shift. Gardiner is a mixed bag and might be keeping Bean from needed development. Dzingel didn't make a big difference.

2) None of Trocheck, Skjei, or Vatanen got the Canes out of the first round. As I mentioned last week, I thought Tampa's acquisition of Coleman was sound. But the Canes might not be quite to that point-- the players the Canes acquired don't change the team's makeup the way a player like Coleman changed Tampa.

Of course they aren't all winners or at the very least the jury is still out on some of them. But they are bold enough to make moves even if they might not work out and I still think they have a pretty good grade overall on moves.

As for Roy, he has done very well, but it might not be that they missed on him as much as they wanted Haula. Again, that one didn't work out, but that seems like it was a reasonable swing for a team that was coming off an ECF appearance. If he had not run into injury issues and continued his early season play, it may have paid off. I think those type of gambles are worth it.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

For me those are mixed blessings.

1) Watching the WCF, the front office missed by parting with Roy. He makes good plays all over the ice and almost every shift. Gardiner is a mixed bag and might be keeping Bean from needed development. Dzingel didn't make a big difference.

2) None of Trocheck, Skjei, or Vatanen got the Canes out of the first round. As I mentioned last week, I thought Tampa's acquisition of Coleman was sound. But the Canes might not be quite to that point-- the players the Canes acquired don't change the team's makeup the way a player like Coleman changed Tampa.

Missed on Roy how? What do you project Roy to be? At best he is a poor team's 3C. He is a 4C. We took advantage of Vegas' need for a cap space to get a 2C out of a 4C. That is a good trade anywhere. Once Haula decided what he decided then, we used him, 2 other 4Cs, and a RHD prospect to get an 2C with more term. Although we can quibble about Trocheck's contributions he is a 50+ point 2C that didnt have a capable LW for the entirety of the playoffs. Get that guy a LW and a more confident Necas, he'll do just fine. He was driving his line by himself out there.

I will definitely agree that outside of the Haula, eventual Trocheck move and the Reimer move, the front office did very poorly. I dont know what Lehner wanted for a contract but not going with him over Mrazek and Gardiner seems fairly silly. Of course, Gardiner could come out and put up 40+ points next season and make us all eat crow (ill gladly do that).

 

[robbieberns]

We are in bad need for a second line left winger. Package a quality piece to balloon Nino and his contract out of here. Don’t focus too much on the player I’m choosing, but I think adding a Boeser level kind of talent is exactly what this team needs.

Svech - Aho - Turbo
? - Trocheck - Necas

Love it or hate it, but that’s the top 6 we’re rolling with at least to start the year. I know people want to address goaltending, but I think this “summer” might be built around addressing that question mark.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Where is everyone going to go if all the non cap tight teams have small internal budgets?

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t know about the makeup of the second line. Trocheck looked notably better when Necas was out and they scrambled the lines. I think it was Dzingle-Tro-Willy? That line looked great I thought, and more dangerous then I’ve seen Tro/Necas. I don’t want Necas with Staal so I don’t know the solution, I’m just saying the LW better have some magic to him if he’s going to bring chemistry to those other two. They have not had any natural chemistry to me.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

LeBrun: Oilers are in the market for a goalie, Pens' Murray is prime candidate

I saw on the Oilers' board that LeBrun mentioned Edmonton as a landing spot for one of the goalies if an upgrade is acquired. Can one of the Canadian posters tell us if this was phrased as a rumor, informed speculation or just blind speculation?

Mrazek was linked to Edmonton last Summer, IIRC. There's a connection to Holland. His remaining contract is competitive for a platoon goalie, even in a flooded market.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

LeBrun: Oilers are in the market for a goalie, Pens' Murray is prime candidate

I saw on the Oilers' board that LeBrun mentioned Edmonton as a landing spot for one of the goalies if an upgrade is acquired. Can one of the Canadian posters tell us if this was phrased as a rumor, informed speculation or just blind speculation?

Mrazek was linked to Edmonton last Summer, IIRC. There's a connection to Holland. His remaining contract is competitive for a platoon goalie, even in a flooded market.

Supposedly Edmonton checked in on Murray but JR wants a 1st rounder. Them, like others, said it was too steep.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don’t know about the makeup of the second line. Trocheck looked notably better when Necas was out and they scrambled the lines. I think it was Dzingle-Tro-Willy? That line looked great I thought, and more dangerous then I’ve seen Tro/Necas. I don’t want Necas with Staal so I don’t know the solution, I’m just saying the LW better have some magic to him if he’s going to bring chemistry to those other two. They have not had any natural chemistry to me.

Yeah we have this Svech guy who I think is pretty toolsy and might do OK driving the offense.

We REAAAAALLY don’t need to overload our top line with Svech - Aho - TT.

Give the Finns a good all round player who is capable of retrieving the puck, winning board battles and can score dirty goals in front of the crease and the line should be fine. You can’t tell me they need a superstar in the making for them to be effective.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yeah we have this Svech guy who I think is pretty toolsy and might do OK driving the offense.

We REAAAAALLY don’t need to overload out top line with Svech - Aho - TT.

Give the Finns a good all round player who is capable of retrieving the puck, winning bird battles and can score dirty goals in front of the crease and the line should be fine. You can’t tell me they need a superstar in the making for them to be effective.

I agree with that. I bet Tro has better chemistry with Svech off the bat. I just haven’t seen any with Necas and Tro.

I’ve actually never really liked Svech with the cherubs. I know it works just wasn’t where I wanted him either.

 

[spockBokk]

I agree with that. I bet Tro has better chemistry with Svech off the bat. I just haven’t seen any with Necas and Tro.

I’ve actually never really liked Svech with the cherubs. I know it works just wasn’t where I wanted him either.

In an ideal world, I think you’d like to see this in a year or two , after Necas learns how to play D:

Aho-Necas-Teravainen

Then your second line could be Svechnikov plus a combination of Trocheck (if retained), Suzuki (if he makes big strides) or mystery C and Bokk.

Maybe a bit optimistic on some of the prospects being ready so quickly, and perhaps also on Necas, but I think his future is at C. It may also save some wear and tear in Aho if he moved back to the wing.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Along the lines of what GA said above, Canes could use a Hyman type at LW with Aho and TT. Nino kinda played that roll when he first arrived, albeit with more skill and less physical play.

if they can’t acquire anyone and Nino doesn’t rebound, I’d try Foegele in that role again. I think he’d run through a wall for Rod, so tell him exactly what you want from him. Yeah we’d have our face palm moments when he whiffs on a perfect pass, much like Leafs fans do with Hyman, but his job is to get in on the forecheck, create havoc, and be a net front presence. He also has the speed to keep up with that line.

I know we’ve tried him there before, but I’d rather have Svechnikov off that line for more balance, unless we acquire someone else at LW.

 

[emptyNedder]

Missed on Roy how? What do you project Roy to be? At best he is a poor team's 3C. He is a 4C.

Not project—he has been playing 3C for Vegas in the playoffs. So is Vegas a "poor team?" Roy is not a 4C—while playing for a highly successful team.

The last few games he has also been playing RW on what is arguably the second line. You state that Trocheck is a 50+ point center, given how Roy has been developing that is not out of the question.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Not project—he has been playing 3C for Vegas in the playoffs. So is Vegas a "poor team?" Roy is not a 4C—while playing for a highly successful team.

The last few games he has also been playing RW on what is arguably the second line. You state that Trocheck is a 50+ point center, given how Roy has been developing that is not out of the question.

Vegas is very poor at center right now. Its Karlsson and then.... they have played Glass and Roy up because they no choice. They are ridiculously strong on winger but poor at center.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think Roy was developing nicely and I always liked his game more than Gauthier’s. He has more hockey sense, better hands, better oa skill, better 2-way game and uses his size more effectively.

His skating has really been the main concern, but the rest of his game makes up for it some.

I’m not sure if “missed” is the right way to phrase it though. Canes had Aho and Staal at C long term (and felt Necas would be a C long term) and wanted to upgrade immediately on Wallmark, thus the gamble on Haula. Started off great until Haula’s injury and subsequent falling out.

LV wanted Roy as they got to see him first hand in the AHL Calder cup.

I think Carolina knew what they had in Roy, but due to team makeup and desire to improve, made the move.

 

[Chrispy]

I think Roy was developing nicely and I always liked his game more than Gauthier’s. He has more hockey sense, better hands, better oa skill, better 2-way game and uses his size more effectively.

His skating has really been the main concern, but the rest of his game makes up for it some.

I’m not sure if “missed” is the right way to phrase it though. Canes had Aho and Staal at C long term (and felt Necas would be a C long term) and wanted to upgrade immediately on Wallmark, thus the gamble on Haula. Started off great until Haula’s injury and subsequent falling out.

LV wanted Roy as they got to see him first hand in the AHL Calder cup.

I think Carolina knew what they had in Roy, but due to team makeup and desire to improve, made the move.

I could see the argument as short-sighted if you thought Roy had a good shot at being 4C in the next year or 2. Wallmark was great there, but Haula was a rental shot at a 2C.

With Geekie coming on to take over 4C after the Trocheck trade, I feel like the entire thing was worth it even giving up a promising bottom 6 center in Wallmark. Staal isn't going anywhere, and I feel like Geekie can easily replace, if not surpass, Roy.

They effectively landed a 50 point (baseline) 2C for 2+ years for 3 B-prospects and Wallmark. You can't make that move regularly, but it was a good move for the next couple of seasons.

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

I think Roy was developing nicely and I always liked his game more than Gauthier’s. He has more hockey sense, better hands, better oa skill, better 2-way game and uses his size more effectively.

His skating has really been the main concern, but the rest of his game makes up for it some.

I’m not sure if “missed” is the right way to phrase it though. Canes had Aho and Staal at C long term (and felt Necas would be a C long term) and wanted to upgrade immediately on Wallmark, thus the gamble on Haula. Started off great until Haula’s injury and subsequent falling out.

LV wanted Roy as they got to see him first hand in the AHL Calder cup.

I think Carolina knew what they had in Roy, but due to team makeup and desire to improve, made the move.

I agree with this also. As someone who saw Roy play with my own eyes during the Calder Cup run, I felt there was a lot to be desired in terms of skating and pace. I loved the big body and 2 way game but wanted more physicality and grit. He looked a lot like a poor man's Jordan Staal. He was out played by Geekie in terms of speed, skill, and high danger scoring opportunities. I think we knew what we had in him and we also knew we could use him to fetch something we didn't have in Haula. We need(ed) higher-end center play and secondary scoring which Haula could provide. I don't think Roy will ever be a 20 goal/20 assist guy which is fine, but he had no chance at cracking the line-up here and we got a good return for him.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

This team can't wait out every B-prospect and draft pick that turns into one. Ultimately, the goal now is to win at a high level. There's a balance between selling out for now and missing the opportunity. Winnipeg is an example of the latter. There was extreme patience for years and the end result was a team that was a threat at a high level, but that only lasted for a year or two before the end of Trouba's RFA years, Myers' 2nd contract and perhaps Byfuglien's career killed their depth on defense and turned them back into a middling team.

There will be more Roys, or picks that turn into that type, that will get dealt in the years to come. Some will pan out. Others will not. It's the nature of this part of the competitive cycle.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Sounds like Lehner may stay in Vegas for 5 yr @ $5M/yr...I'd gladly beat that deal if I were Carolina, but maybe not by enough for him to care?

 

[AD Skinner]

There will be more Roys, or picks that turn into that type, that will get dealt in the years to come. Some will pan out. Others will not. It's the nature of this part of the competitive cycle.

"More Roys" is a fun thing to say