All purpose trade/roster building thread the 13th

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Nikishin Go Boom

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Posted this in the WPG-CAR trade thread on the main board.

To WPG
Skjei + Necas + 2020 13OA + prospect of Jets choice

To CAR
Laine

It’s a lot to give up and not sure either side does it to be honest but I think if you’re going for a quantity type offer this has got to be something Winnipeg considers as it it’s essentially 4 x 1st round picks in various forms and a lot of controllable years.

- Necas fills Laine’s spot in the top 6. He’s a downgrade but has a lot of skill and talent and could be a 60+ point player in a year or two. Also expansion draft exempt

- Skjei helps a depleted blue line and slots in as the 2nd pair LHD behind Morrisey. Signed to a reasonable deal ($5.25) for the next 4 years. Carolina also needs to send some amount of salary back to make this work

- 2020 13OA is pretty self explanatory. Pretty high pick in a strong draft to go along with Winnipeg’s 10OA

- Pick any prospect.
Bean/Suzuki/Rees/Bokk/Honka/Kochetov
C,W,D,G we’ve got a pretty good prospect for every position

- Carolina gets Laine and adds him to Aho, TT, Svech for one of the leagues best top 4 forwards. Moving Skjei in the deal opens up some cap space to re-sign Laine to a contract that both sides can live with.
Canes should say no. 1st round can be next year's. Likely 4 1st rounders for a one dimensional LW? Heck lets go thrown an offer sheet at Kubalik at that rate and only spend a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd.
 

spockBokk

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Sep 8, 2013
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Posted this in the WPG-CAR trade thread on the main board.

To WPG
Skjei + Necas + 2020 13OA + prospect of Jets choice

To CAR
Laine

It’s a lot to give up and not sure either side does it to be honest but I think if you’re going for a quantity type offer this has got to be something Winnipeg considers as it it’s essentially 4 x 1st round picks in various forms and a lot of controllable years.

- Necas fills Laine’s spot in the top 6. He’s a downgrade but has a lot of skill and talent and could be a 60+ point player in a year or two. Also expansion draft exempt

- Skjei helps a depleted blue line and slots in as the 2nd pair LHD behind Morrisey. Signed to a reasonable deal ($5.25) for the next 4 years. Carolina also needs to send some amount of salary back to make this work

- 2020 13OA is pretty self explanatory. Pretty high pick in a strong draft to go along with Winnipeg’s 10OA

- Pick any prospect.
Bean/Suzuki/Rees/Bokk/Honka/Kochetov
C,W,D,G we’ve got a pretty good prospect for every position

- Carolina gets Laine and adds him to Aho, TT, Svech for one of the leagues best top 4 forwards. Moving Skjei in the deal opens up some cap space to re-sign Laine to a contract that both sides can live with.

Yeah, that's a big no for me, way too much.

I keep coming back to Pesce for Ehlers, that is what I'd do. Don't want Laine.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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Why, because he will get paid 2RW money but only be the 3RW. They need cap space or more accurately said, put their cap space in a need.

Meh I don’t see a MASSIVE raise in his future to be honest and if the Canucks roll with Demko instead of re-signing Markstrom they save a bunch of cash there.
 
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spockBokk

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Noticed where LeBrun was scheduled to be on TSN radio today to talk about Andersen amongst other things so I decided to listen in since work is slow. No real bombs dropped on that front, but something of interest did come up about a deal the Canes and Avs talked about pre-deadline.

Now granted, this would have likely been a minor deal, but evidently, the Avs were interested in acquiring Forsberg for some extra goalie depth pre-deadline (also probably pre-Ayres game) and the asking price was too high for them so they, luckily for them, went with Hutchinson.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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Canes should say no. 1st round can be next year's. Likely 4 1st rounders for a one dimensional LW? Heck lets go thrown an offer sheet at Kubalik at that rate and only spend a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd.

Yeah, that's a big no for me, way too much.

I keep coming back to Pesce for Ehlers, that is what I'd do. Don't want Laine.

I dont disagree with either of you. It’s a lot of value to give up but it’s not giving up a really big piece that hurts like Hamilton or Pesce. Changing it to 2021 1st is maybe a good idea though.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Meh I don’t see a MASSIVE raise in his future to be honest and if the Canucks roll with Demko instead of re-signing Markstrom they save a bunch of cash there.
they have to rebuild their defense cheaply and get a backup. While they have 17 mil in cap now, they have to save some for Hughes and Pettersen. And they are definitely overpaying Toffoli this off-season too.
 

spockBokk

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I dont disagree with either of you. It’s a lot of value to give up but it’s not giving up a really big piece that hurts like Hamilton or Pesce. Changing it to 2021 1st is maybe a good idea though.

Exactly, gotta give to get. I don't think Laine is the guy to pay up for though.

I don't want the Canes to trade Pesce, but I would trade him for Ehlers. Heck, I'd trade him for Nylander too. That type line driving winger on the 2nd line I think is exactly what the dr ordered for the Canes to take the next step.

On an aside, again, I don't want Pesce traded, but I think if you ever are going to trade him, this is the time because of the RD ufa-to-be list is a lot bigger than normal and you might be able to nab a replacement a lot cheaper than normal due to Covid.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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It is in my risk adverse opinion that we shoot for the missing piece addition that probably costs a ton after the Svech and Hamilton extensions are handled and the expansion draft is over. that way we know what money we have and we arent losing any other important pieces. If its Laine after next season, that is okay.
 

FlyingSquirrels

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I think we see a defenseman or 2 moved. If for nothing else, preparing for the Seattle draft. No way we can leave Bean or Fleury exposed. That's mismanagement of assets in my opinion.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I dont disagree with either of you. It’s a lot of value to give up but it’s not giving up a really big piece that hurts like Hamilton or Pesce. Changing it to 2021 1st is maybe a good idea though.
How do we sign Hamilton when we have to pay Laine? ( and Svechnikov)? I’m concerned already about Carolinas ability to sign Hamilton. If they acquire Laine, I think it’s almost a given that they don’t pay Dougie, so in the end, we do still give up a valuable piece.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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How do we sign Hamilton when we have to pay Laine? ( and Svechnikov)? I’m concerned already about Carolinas ability to sign Hamilton. If they acquire Laine, I think it’s almost a given that they don’t pay Dougie, so in the end, we do still give up a valuable piece.

Dump Nino, Dzingle, Gardiner, and at least one goalie. Which probably isn’t realistic to do.

I don’t actually want to do that Laine trade. Was more playing devils advocate. I think we just need to find a capable winger to play with Aho and TT, not try to be the Harlem globetrotters with our top two lines.

Im all for the more balanced approach.
 

Anton Dubinchuk

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How do we sign Hamilton when we have to pay Laine? ( and Svechnikov)? I’m concerned already about Carolinas ability to sign Hamilton. If they acquire Laine, I think it’s almost a given that they don’t pay Dougie, so in the end, we do still give up a valuable piece.

Yep, if Laine commands a big raise, we lose the trade, and if Laine doesn't command a big raise, well, we also lose the trade.

I don't hate the notion of acquiring Ehlers with how long he's locked in. But in addition to not really being a stylistic fit, Laine is definitely not a cap fit for us.
 

Chrispy

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I think we see a defenseman or 2 moved. If for nothing else, preparing for the Seattle draft. No way we can leave Bean or Fleury exposed. That's mismanagement of assets in my opinion.

The problem isn't simply leaving Bean and Fleury exposed. It's that you can move them, but then you still lose someone valuable to Seattle.

I assume you trade Bean & Fleury for someone who is exempt or a goalie you can protect (picks, prospects, or a starting goalie.) Then protect:

Svech, Aho, TT, Staal. Necas exempt.
Pesce, Slavin, Hamilton, Skjei

That leaves Francis picking one of:

Trocheck, Nino, Feogele, Gardiner.

That doesn't seem too bad on its face. But you've already lost Bean and Fleury in this scenario to trades.

So the question is which is better?
(One of Bean/Fleury + Trocheck) vs (what was acquired for Bean and Fleury)?

If the value you get back for Bean & Fleury isn't worth one of Bean/Fleury + Trocheck, you're better off standing pat and losing one of the two D-men.

Note: the rationale of making a trade probably gets flipped if Hamilton is not re-signed, as that leaves having it as the assets you get for Bean or Fleury vs the forward (or Gardiner) you lose. But that also depends on what assets you get for Hamilton and whether they need to be protected.
 

bleedgreen

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The problem isn't simply leaving Bean and Fleury exposed. It's that you can move them, but then you still lose someone valuable to Seattle.

I assume you trade Bean & Fleury for someone who is exempt or a goalie you can protect (picks, prospects, or a starting goalie.) Then protect:

Svech, Aho, TT, Staal. Necas exempt.
Pesce, Slavin, Hamilton, Skjei

That leaves Francis picking one of:

Trocheck, Nino, Feogele, Gardiner.

That doesn't seem too bad on its face. But you've already lost Bean and Fleury in this scenario to trades.

So the question is which is better?
(One of Bean/Fleury + Trocheck) vs (what was acquired for Bean and Fleury)?

If the value you get back for Bean & Fleury isn't worth one of Bean/Fleury + Trocheck, you're better off standing pat and losing one of the two D-men.

Note: the rationale of making a trade probably gets flipped if Hamilton is not re-signed, as that leaves having it as the assets you get for Bean or Fleury vs the forward (or Gardiner) you lose. But that also depends on what assets you get for Hamilton and whether they need to be protected.
Better off just letting Francis have one and keep the other, and move on. Teams learned the hard way that trying to guide the expansion process was expensive and didn’t help them in the end. Either let him take one of Fleury or Bean or pay a pretty high pick for him to take someone agreed upon.

Expansion draft concerns over. Other than worrying that the player taken with the pick turns out better than either of those two.
 

Sens1Canes2

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May 13, 2007
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Posted this in the WPG-CAR trade thread on the main board.

To WPG
Skjei + Necas + 2020 13OA + prospect of Jets choice

To CAR
Laine

It’s a lot to give up and not sure either side does it to be honest but I think if you’re going for a quantity type offer this has got to be something Winnipeg considers as it it’s essentially 4 x 1st round picks in various forms and a lot of controllable years.

- Necas fills Laine’s spot in the top 6. He’s a downgrade but has a lot of skill and talent and could be a 60+ point player in a year or two. Also expansion draft exempt

- Skjei helps a depleted blue line and slots in as the 2nd pair LHD behind Morrisey. Signed to a reasonable deal ($5.25) for the next 4 years. Carolina also needs to send some amount of salary back to make this work

- 2020 13OA is pretty self explanatory. Pretty high pick in a strong draft to go along with Winnipeg’s 10OA

- Pick any prospect.
Bean/Suzuki/Rees/Bokk/Honka/Kochetov
C,W,D,G we’ve got a pretty good prospect for every position

- Carolina gets Laine and adds him to Aho, TT, Svech for one of the leagues best top 4 forwards. Moving Skjei in the deal opens up some cap space to re-sign Laine to a contract that both sides can live with.
I uhhhh I say no
 

MinJaBen

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@MinJaBen Svech is perfect on the left side. If he wasn’t really good over there we wouldn’t be shaping an entire pp around him being on the left side. Our pp bucks the trend of having the shooter in the off wing because Svech can find space high in the circle and beat goalies clean.

I know Svech is perfect on the left side. I was pushing for a LW to play with Aho so we can have two good scoring lines, not just one.
 

bleedgreen

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I know Svech is perfect on the left side. I was pushing for a LW to play with Aho so we can have two good scoring lines, not just one.
My bad, you like TT only on the right side as well I recall. I agree another LW would help maybe the top six though once we no longer have Williams we will be short righties again. We still are imo. I would target a righty but I get that a lefty would help the top line.
 

MinJaBen

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Dump Nino, Dzingle, Gardiner, and at least one goalie.
Where? And how? Every team is looking to dump someone. And Arizona is already in cap trouble themselves. This is not the market for cap dumps I'd want to be playing around in. Definitely going to cost a pretty penny to move bad salary right now unless you are taking some back. At that point, why bother unless you can find a unicorn where both teams have matching bad salary and needs.

This is why I'd look at moving either Nino or Gardiner to the Flyers in exchange for JVR. JVR could look really good besides Aho and TT. With his advance stats, he looks like the kind of guy the front office would be looking at in a buy low option (not that their record on those is without flaw):

2. James van Riemsdyk - LW, Philadelphia Flyers

[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Were it not for his contract, JVR would profile as a classic buy-low/bad-fit target. An acquiring team can expect a strong net-front player who scores a lot of goals; in the past three seasons he ranks 27th in 5v5 goals with 50 and 12th in 5v5 goals per sixty minutes. But he’s got three more years on his deal at $7M, which would be difficult for a team to absorb even under normal circumstances. On top of that, by playing him as a third liner this season and healthy scratching him in the playoffs, Philadelphia has ensured that his trade value will likely be negative.

van Riemsdyk was moved around the lineup a lot this season, spending no more than 10% of his ice time with any set combination of forwards. Nonetheless, he had strong underlying numbers, almost perfectly recovering to his 2017-18 form after some zero-calorie results in his first season with the Flyers. He was a major driver of offence and defence, and while his goal totals went down this season, that was mostly a function of diminished ice time.

In order to be effective, JVR needs to play with skilled guys who carry the puck and be stapled to the front of the net on the powerplay; he is fully wasted in a bottom six or a second PP unit. With Claude Giroux, Oskar Lindblom, and Joel Farabee on the left side it makes sense that the Flyers are ready to move on, but that doesn’t mean he’s washed up. That being said, a 31 year old net-front player with serious term and money left is a tough sell, and even with his strong analytical profile I would generally warn against acquiring a player of that age with that kind of contract. I think it’s more likely than not that the Flyers will have to figure out what to do with him on the roster.

Does It Make Sense to Trade Him? Yes, the Flyers have too many left wings ahead of him on the depth chart for $7M to make sense.
 
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bleedgreen

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If you were Philly would you trade JVR for Nino or Gardiner? Even with a sweetener? They don’t need D.

Nino can’t be viewed by them as a better player than JVR. I get the contract issue. I definitely don’t think it would be Gardiner.

Also I think that contract could be a tipping point for us, so if we’re going to add someone in that range I’d like it to be someone we feel more confident would succeed.
 
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MinJaBen

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If you were Philly would you trade JVR for Nino or Gardiner? Even with a sweetener? They don’t need D.

Nino can’t be viewed by them as a better player than JVR.

He's about $1.5M cheaper each year for one less year. If they have to healthy scratch a guy, I know who I'd rather healthy scratch. For the Flyers, it's not about getting a better player or even a better fit, it's about getting less contract in both cases. They are losing Bruan this year (addition by subtraction probably, and a RD) but maybe they have more of a place for Gardiner than Nino. Who knows. Let them have the option as far as I'm concerned.
 
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bleedgreen

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He's about $1.5M cheaper each year for one less year. If they have to healthy scratch a guy, I know who I'd rather healthy scratch. For the Flyers, it's not about getting a better player or even a better fit, it's about getting less contract in both cases. They are losing Bruan this year (addition by subtraction probably, and a RD) but maybe they have more of a place for Gardiner than Nino. Who knows. Let them have the option as far as I'm concerned.
I added to my last post late another big concern that I think we’re one big contract away from being a team with cap troubles, if we keep what we have already. I know we’re “only” adding two or three million to what we already pay but this will matter, would be nice to get a guy we feel really confident will succeed here. I do like JVR and he’s great around the net which would work with the cherubs potentially.
 
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