All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread - start of 2021 season edition

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Fleury was playing top four minutes well in the NHL when he was 20/21 years old. Under Francis. Francis likely disagrees with Fleury’s path since and I’d be really surprised if he didn’t think Fleury is equal or better than Skjei defensively.

I think he’s better than Skjei defensively. I’d be fine with Fleury playing in Skjei’s spot next to Pesce next year.

Skjei’s selling point is his open ice skating, and the way he transitions moving forward once out of his own end as well as his ability to get back when he gets deep offensively. He lacks poise with the puck in his own end, and doesn’t seem to have a naturally defensive brain. He’s kind of a more developed Hanifin.

I could see Francis being paid to take Skjei and not minding it because the salary helps them and the player will have a good role. He’s not a bad choice but I doubt Francis wants Skjei over Bean or Fleury. Elevating Skjei to an even higher role likely makes him worse.

I agree that he had a "top 4 role" as he was paired with Faulk most of that season, so technically top 4, but none of his numbers weren't really that of a top 4 D.

Total TOI/GP: Fleury was 6th among defensemen with 16:48 min. TVR (17:03) and Hanifin (18:52) had more.
EV TOI/GP: Fleury was 5th among defensemen with 15:48 min. TVR was 6th (15:32) and Hanifin was 4th (16:59).
SH TOI/GP: Fleury was 5th among defensemen (4th if you remove Dahlbeck and his 33 games). Slavin and Pesce were 1st. TVR had 1:19. Dahlbeck had 1:04, Fleury had 0:54.

Even if I ignore Nov and Dec when he may not have been with Faulk, the rankings don't change.

As far as Ozone starts and quality of competition, Fleury was 4th, but was very close to Hanifin and TVR in how he was used. Obviously, that year Slavin and Pesce were the workhorses that took all the Dzone starts and all the difficult assignments and the other two pairings (including Faulk) were relatively sheltered. In that role, Fleury had the worst possession numbers of the 6 defenseman on Carolina that season.

So he was in a "top 4 role", but he really didn't play top 4 minutes, nor did he excel in the sheltered role he played. I think he played with Faulk because Peters wasn't going to split up Slavin/Pesce and Hanifin and Faulk were a bad match.

I do agree with you though that Francis would probably choose him over Skjei or Gardiner, if Bean is protected. I also agree that Rod doesn't trust him, but probably disagree with you on the reasons why Rod doesn't trust him, but so be it.

 

[DaveG]

What is the deal with Fleury? He’s someone I liked a lot in his draft year but haven’t followed him much since. I’ve seen him being traded in some armchair GMs recently and wondered what it’s take to acquire him.

also what’s his potential like at this stage and what has he turned into?

I think his potential is pretty much a Calvin de Haan type #4 dman. He's a bit better skating wise than cal though so his transition game and offensive upside are definitely higher.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's Francis's pick in the expansion draft

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think his potential is pretty much a Calvin de Haan type #4 dman. He's a bit better skating wise than cal though so his transition game and offensive upside are definitely higher.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's Francis's pick in the expansion draft

What's frustrating to me is that Fleury has the physical tools to be a solid 2nd pairing D. He's got good size, is a good skater, is strong on his skates, can be physical, and even has decent hands and passing ability. I'm totally speculating here, but he comes across as a guy that doesn't process stuff on the ice quickly and it leads to inconsistency. Or maybe it's just that he's thinking too much and/or lacks confidence? Maybe it's the system the Canes play doesn't suit him where they are aggressive at their own blue line and aggressive in the neutral zone in maintaining tight gaps? Maybe it's lack of a consistent role? Maybe he's playing it too safe because of the lack of a consistent role?

I won't claim to know why, but for me, there's something missing that's keeping him from excelling.

Another team and/or different system where he can gain confidence might be a good thing for him and allow him to excel. If Bean is protected (still TBD) I agree that I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle takes him or maybe Geekie, depending on who they can get from other teams.

 

[spockBokk]

Bean is the only Cane on The Athletic’s trade bait board. Custance seems to assume that Hamilton will be re-signed and protected.

28. Jake Bean, Hurricanes: There are a couple of approaches teams can take when it comes to the expansion draft. If you’re loaded on defense, like the Hurricanes are, you can just accept you’re losing one and let the depth cushion the blow. Or you can make a trade to try and get value in a player you risk losing for nothing. Bean has been really good this season for the Hurricanes and was even better in the AHL. They’re not shopping him, according to sources. They’d probably rather trade Haydn Fleury. But Bean is likely going to be exposed to Seattle assuming Carolina protects Dougie Hamilton, Jaccob Slavin and Brett Pesce, so it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that the Hurricanes would listen to an offer that makes sense. The Hurricanes definitely have players on defense they’re willing to move if somebody makes the right offer.

 

[Highway29]

Right now for me the odd man out from D is Skjei.

I mostly like what Skjei brings but in our zone Skjei seems to be the weakest one.

Depending the price I'd pay Seattle to take him but not much as he's a good player so there's no need to overpay. And if it is Fleury who goes, it's ok.

I'd like to see this D next season:
Slavin Hamilton
Gardiner Pesce
Fleury Bean
X

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Bean is the only Cane on The Athletic’s trade bait board. Custance seems to assume that Hamilton will be re-signed and protected.

28. Jake Bean, Hurricanes: There are a couple of approaches teams can take when it comes to the expansion draft. If you’re loaded on defense, like the Hurricanes are, you can just accept you’re losing one and let the depth cushion the blow. Or you can make a trade to try and get value in a player you risk losing for nothing. Bean has been really good this season for the Hurricanes and was even better in the AHL. They’re not shopping him, according to sources. They’d probably rather trade Haydn Fleury. But Bean is likely going to be exposed to Seattle assuming Carolina protects Dougie Hamilton, Jaccob Slavin and Brett Pesce, so it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that the Hurricanes would listen to an offer that makes sense. The Hurricanes definitely have players on defense they’re willing to move if somebody makes the right offer.

Considering Bean's recent play, it should be for something good. I know that LA wants a dynamic young LHD. Perhaps there's a trade available there if LA is willing to deal one of their premium center prospects to make it happen. Say, if Turcotte or Vilardi was offered in a Bean deal? I'd certainly consider.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Considering Bean's recent play, it should be for something good. I know that LA wants a dynamic young LHD. Perhaps there's a trade available there if LA is willing to deal one of their premium center prospects to make it happen.

Highly doubt LA moves a premium C prospect for a 5th year prospect who is finally playing and has flashes of being good in 10 games.

 

[GoldiFox]

Dustin Brown at #19 in The Athletic's TDL rankings is the most interesting piece for the Canes IMO. Brind'Amour would love him and he has 11 goals in 20 games this year.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Highly doubt LA moves a premium C prospect for a 5th year prospect who is finally playing and has flashes of being good in 10 games.

True. I'm just thinking out loud. It's also true, however, that LA is overloaded with centers in their farm and may need to pick two and move the others for roster weaknesses. It's a good problem to have, sure. However, when it comes to when these guys need playing time and their second contracts, it's a question that they might consider. So far, their center depth in the farm has Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, Madden, Kupari, and Akil Thomas. Neither Turcotte nor Vilardi are what I think of as 3Cs. Sure, some of these guys may move to the wing at the NHL level, but it does go to show you that LA would be dealing from a position of strength.

 

[spockBokk]

I don’t really think they’ll entertain trading Bean until the Hamilton contract situation is resolved or they get an offer that makes a the team better. Bean is a good insurance policy in the likely , at least in my view, case that Hamilton hits ufa.

I’ll add some of my thoughts on Skjei here too. I think a lot of Canes fans use his performance in the first 7 games before the Covid break and his last few games against Tampa for developing an opinion on they guy. I get that, he wasn’t very good against Tampa and he wasn’t good after just getting traded. However, he was one the Canes best D in the bubble and he’s been mostly good this year. He’s slotted correctly as a 2nd pair guy. What happens with him (and what happens to Bean) I think again is linked to Hamilton. If they keep Hamilton, sure, the loss of Skjei is not really an issue. If they lose Hamilton and Skjei...ick...suddenly you’re down 2 top 4 D in one offseason.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I don’t really think they’ll entertain trading Bean until the Hamilton contract situation is resolved or they get an offer that makes a the team better. Bean is a good insurance policy in the likely , at least in my view, case that Hamilton hits ufa.

I’ll add some of my thoughts on Skjei here too. I think a lot of Canes fans use his performance in the first 7 games before the Covid break and his last few games against Tampa for developing an opinion on they guy. I get that, he wasn’t very good against Tampa and he wasn’t good after just getting traded. However, he was one the Canes best D in the bubble and he’s been mostly good this year. He’s slotted correctly as a 2nd pair guy. What happens with him (and what happens to Bean) I think again is linked to Hamilton. If they keep Hamilton, sure, the loss of Skjei is not really an issue. If they lose Hamilton and Skjei...ick...suddenly you’re down 2 top 4 D in one offseason.

And not only that...but once again, Tampa is Tampa for a reason. They dominate everyone.

As far as the expansion draft is concerned, though, I think the Canes will listen to offers on Hamilton, Skjei, Bean, and Fleury at the deadline, but they won't trade just to make a trade if the value's not there. There's just so much depth that they can comfortably lose one of them outright to Seattle without much penalty to their roster or farm.

 

[spockBokk]

Deja vu on this statement:

The Hurricanes definitely have players on defense they’re willing to move if somebody makes the right offer

How many times has that been said over the past few years.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Deja vu on this statement:

The Hurricanes definitely have players on defense they’re willing to move if somebody makes the right offer

How many times has that been said over the past few years.

Honestly, I think the "anyone is available" trade tactic has been quite productive for us in the last few seasons. A net of Trocheck/Skjei/Vatanen/Paquette/Edmundson/Bokk/Keane/Rees/Gunler/Honka for the assets given up is solid work.

 

[geehaad]

I think the Hurricanes should do with Hamilton what they would do with him if it were a normal offseason and ignore the looming expansion draft. Worst case, they will retain 5 of their current top-7 defensemen, so they have the luxury of not letting the expansion draft get them over a barrel. Allowing that to influence their decision with Hamilton has the potential to compound problems.

If Dougie walks, they have all summer to figure out how their defense will map out, with prospects and draft picks to peddle in the attempt to solidify the lineup heading into next season. What you don't want is to panic at the notion of not having a Cup-worthy top-4 and agree to a deal that you'll regret for 5-8 years. Stay the course.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

True. I'm just thinking out loud. It's also true, however, that LA is overloaded with centers in their farm and may need to pick two and move the others for roster weaknesses. It's a good problem to have, sure. However, when it comes to when these guys need playing time and their second contracts, it's a question that they might consider. So far, their center depth in the farm has Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, Madden, Kupari, and Akil Thomas. Neither Turcotte nor Vilardi are what I think of as 3Cs. Sure, some of these guys may move to the wing at the NHL level, but it does go to show you that LA would be dealing from a position of strength.

Being overloaded at center isn’t really a thing. They can play wing if needed. It’s a good problem to have.

No way is the idea of moving Turc or Gabe for Bean even remotely entertained

 

[MinJaBen]

I don’t really think they’ll entertain trading Bean until the Hamilton contract situation is resolved or they get an offer that makes a the team better. Bean is a good insurance policy in the likely , at least in my view, case that Hamilton hits ufa.

I’ll add some of my thoughts on Skjei here too. I think a lot of Canes fans use his performance in the first 7 games before the Covid break and his last few games against Tampa for developing an opinion on they guy. I get that, he wasn’t very good against Tampa and he wasn’t good after just getting traded. However, he was one the Canes best D in the bubble and he’s been mostly good this year. He’s slotted correctly as a 2nd pair guy. What happens with him (and what happens to Bean) I think again is linked to Hamilton. If they keep Hamilton, sure, the loss of Skjei is not really an issue. If they lose Hamilton and Skjei...ick...suddenly you’re down 2 top 4 D in one offseason.

The biggest problem with Skjei is that he is overpaid for our organization. He's performing fine: he's not perfect, but as a #4, you can't expect that. But he's not paid as a #4 defenseman. He's our second highest paid defenseman and might be playing as our fifth best. Too much money is locked into his contract given his performance and where this team needs to be spending money. Fleury is not as good as Skjei, but I'd rather him play the 3rd left defensive spot with Gardiner as the #2 LHD given their contracts.

All in all, if it can happen reasonably, I think the best play for defensive future planning is to toss a 2nd Francis's way to have him take Skjei at the expansion.

 

[chaz4hockey]

The biggest problem with Skjei is that he is overpaid for our organization. He's performing fine: he's not perfect, but as a #4, you can't expect that. But he's not paid as a #4 defenseman. He's our second highest paid defenseman and might be playing as our fifth best. Too much money is locked into his contract given his performance and where this team needs to be spending money. Fleury is not as good as Skjei, but I'd rather him play the 3rd left defensive spot with Gardiner as the #2 LHD given their contracts.

All in all, if it can happen reasonably, I think the best play for defensive future planning is to toss a 2nd Francis's way to have him take Skjei at the expansion.

good points....if only we could have convinced Fox that there was an opportunity to play early.....

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Being overloaded at center isn’t really a thing. They can play wing if needed. It’s a good problem to have.

No way is the idea of moving Turc or Gabe for Bean even remotely entertained

I was thinking more Bean + 1st, but yes, I agree. A more realistic deal with LA and Bean likely revolves around Kempe.

 

[GoldiFox]

The biggest problem with Skjei is that he is overpaid for our organization. He's performing fine: he's not perfect, but as a #4, you can't expect that. But he's not paid as a #4 defenseman. He's our second highest paid defenseman and might be playing as our fifth best. Too much money is locked into his contract given his performance and where this team needs to be spending money. Fleury is not as good as Skjei, but I'd rather him play the 3rd left defensive spot with Gardiner as the #2 LHD given their contracts.

All in all, if it can happen reasonably, I think the best play for defensive future planning is to toss a 2nd Francis's way to have him take Skjei at the expansion.

$5.2 million is more than a #4 should be making. Gardiner's $4 million is more palatable for 95% of the season. However, if I'm going into a tough Playoff series against Boston I think I'd much rather have Skjei on the 2nd pair than Gardiner. Until the Canes can replace that physical element elsewhere in the lineup it is needed.

That said, if Francis wants to take Skjei in the expansion draft then that is a good tradeoff for the Canes. I just don't know that I'd be paying to move him.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

$5.2 million is more than a #4 should be making. Gardiner's $4 million is more palatable for 95% of the season. However, if I'm going into a tough Playoff series against Boston I think I'd much rather have Skjei on the 2nd pair than Gardiner. Until the Canes can replace that physical element elsewhere in the lineup it is needed.

You also have to remember that Slavin and Pesce, combined, make as much or less money per year than a typical 1D on the open market. A big reason why Carolina has a cartoonish amount of defensive depth is because of those cap-controlled long-term deals that every Toronto fan wants for Brown/Zaitsev/2nd, or whatever the modern equivalent of that is.

 

[spockBokk]

$5.2 million is more than a #4 should be making. Gardiner's $4 million is more palatable for 95% of the season. However, if I'm going into a tough Playoff series against Boston I think I'd much rather have Skjei on the 2nd pair than Gardiner. Until the Canes can replace that physical element elsewhere in the lineup it is needed.

That said, if Francis wants to take Skjei in the expansion draft then that is a good tradeoff for the Canes. I just don't know that I'd be paying to move him.

I think it’s also worthwhile to point out, that for weeks last year prior to the deadline, it was reported the Canes were looking for a top 4 LD to play with Pesce. Now, this year, Gardiner has most definitely been better, but I don’t think RBA will ever accept him as a top 4 regular. That spot next to Pesce is Skjei’s to lose.

I think they’ll end up with a top 4 of Slavin, Pesce, Skjei and trade/ufa RD acquisition next year, with Bean a fixture on the PP and 3rd pair. I also think they’ll lose Fleury to Francis and part ways with Gardiner this offseason as well via dollar-for-dollar trade. Sellgren or Keane will push for a spot, and they’ll need to sign another PK worthy vet D to round things out.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Dustin Brown at #19 in The Athletic's TDL rankings is the most interesting piece for the Canes IMO. Brind'Amour would love him and he has 11 goals in 20 games this year.

I honestly wasn't aware he was still playing

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I think it’s also worthwhile to point out, that for weeks last year prior to the deadline, it was reportedly the Canes were looking for a top 4 LD to play with Pesce. Now, this year, Gardiner has most definitely been better, but I don’t think RBA will ever accept him as a top 4 regular. That spot next to Pesce is Skjei’s to lose.

I mean, Brindy had been playing Gards with Pesce when Bean was up, so I think that he's more flexible than we sometimes think. As I had previously thought, Gardiner was scratched in recent games because of an upper-body injury.

 

[MinJaBen]

I honestly wasn't aware he was still playing

Isn't Brown the King that has said if traded, he'll retire?

Edit: Nope, that was Carter.

 

[spockBokk]

I mean, Brindy had been playing Gards with Pesce when Bean was up, so I think that he's more flexible than we sometimes think. As I had previously thought, Gardiner was scratched in recent games because of an upper-body injury.

Gardiner did force his hand a bit with his play, but iirc the last time Gardiner was with Pesce was when Fleury was scratched. So it was either play Gardiner with Pesce or Bean, so the obvious choice was to not have a Gardiner-Bean pairing. Gardiner is capable of 2nd pairing minutes, but I think with the current team makeup, Skjei is the better fit now and long term on that 2nd pairing even with the $1.25M difference in cap hit.

I do agree with the general sentiment that whether or not they end up re-signing Hamilton, one of Gardiner or Skjei will need to go at some point due to cap hit alone.