Boston Bruins All Bruins Free Agent/Trade Rumours and Proposals IV

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I haven't seen Nurse enough to have an opinion on his game but everyone has weaknesses and maybe his is caused by factors such as who his defense-mate is etc. Also the team concept, coaching the aura of champs like Bergeron etc on the bench and as teammates all come into play. I've heard too much good about him to think that this "panicking" will be a career long issue. IMO the Bruins coaching is up there with the best of them, and with mentors like Chara, Miller, McQuaid he would gain a ton of confidence. Also, you can't tell me that being paired up with McAvoy or Carlo would hurt his confidence either. I think that Nurse is the kind of d-man that Neely was talking about after last playoffs when he spoke of upgrades.

what I like about nurse is similar to what I like about guys like pronger and jovanovski early in their careers... and theres been a lot of other big dmen that take time to learn how to play defense.

as I look at history the number of huge dmen that play their best hockey in their first 3-4 years is almost non existent going back to larry robinson… he was 23 and in his 3rd season before he became a contributor in montreal. zdeno chara was 25 before his first season with more than 23 points... chris tanev who a lot of people here like was 24 before his first season with more than 20 mins of icetime averaged... of course our own johnny boychuk didn't make it until 27

darnell nurse just turned 23 in feburary for those who don't read the stats... fluke injuries hurt his first 2 years when he was 20 and 21 years old... holy cow
this year when he was 22 he stayed healthy and got a bit of pp time and put up 26 points... he threw a couple hits per game and averaged a couple blocks... despite playing 22 mins per game on a poor team only had 72 giveaways. got 194 shots on net

this is a guy with offensive upside to his game. this is a 6'4 220 pounder who wants to play physical and can still skate and produce offense too. and averaged 22 mins per night for that horrible oiler team while being an OUTSTANDING PLUS 15.

this is still a growing/developing man child. at worst hes going to be an outstanding 3/4 pair guy for years to come like a adam foote or a Richard matvichuk or johnny boychuk type of guy. but if his offense does develop this could be the next zdeno chara

if there is some way we can get him in here I go for it. this is the snarling beast we wish brandon carlo might develop into. but nurse is already there.

so after giving it some thought... I offersheet nurse for around 7 mill. Edmonton may just match and its as simple as that... we stay status quo

but if Edmonton gives him up... we go with a defense of

McAvoy/moore
carlo/chara
miller/nurse
grezlyck

krug and McQuaid get traded saving us 8 mill cap hit. nurse uses 7 and the 23rd man on the roster using 1 million

maybe nurse and moore would change places? wed have to see... but my guess is we gave more a 5 year deal because we like the idea of his mobility beside McAvoy.

next year when carlo is due his raise... and nurse needs a deal... and McAvoy needs a deal... we probably have to ask chara to take a hometown discount or part company with him. nurse can fit into chara's position as far as the cap hit goes. I wouldn't give nurse 7 mill so theres a danger he could walk unqualified. if nurse walks... we keep carlo. we are still looking ok. but if nurse stays I would probably shop carlo

got to hope McAvoy/moore do ok on the pp and nurse can develop into a decent second unit pp guy.

its a big move... dealing krug but I like the looks of this defense far better come playoff time with big mobile guys.

and an offer sheet has the added bonus of letting neely crap on Chiarelli one more time. im sure he will like that

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Why do we want Nurse?

Seems like one of those grass is greener type things. He’s big mean and can skate but he’s also a dumb turn over machine that panicks with the puck more than he should.

As a 21 year old playing 22 mins a game for 82 games last year he was charged with 72 giveaways while putting up an outstanding plus 15 on that crappy oilers team

chara had 74 givaways for us last year in 73 games. drew doughtly has 79 giveaways while brent burns had 124 and dustin byfulgin had 79. even Duncan keith had 73

I don't think the stats back up your take at all that hes some sort of turn over machine...

im in Edmonton… watch a lot of oiler games. I will admit he was a 21 year old kid last year with less than 200 game experience. hes definitely still learning. oilers put him on the pp for awhile mid season because hes learning fast... looking good. he still isn't ready for the pp and they took him back off again rather than hurt his confidence

he turned 22 in feburary… lots of dmen still in ahl at 22. very few averaging 22 mins a night as the first pair guys on a sucky team like oilers... and fewer still being a plus 15 while averaging 22 mins a night as the first pair guy on a sucky team like oilers.

obviously Edmonton fans are hoping to low ball this guy on a contract. they are in cap hell. if he gets the 5.5-6.5 that he could get on the open market... they would be screwed. so they are all hoping for a contract around 4 mill.

at 4 mill hes a STEAL. this is a guy who handled 22 mins a night as a 21 year old without much problem at all. firing almost 200 shots on net... throwing around 2 1/2 hits a game... putting up 26 points...

yum yum yum yum yum

you haven't been paying attention to his performance if you call him a dumb turnover guy.

victor hedman at age 22 had never scored more than 26 points in a season... seth jones never had more than 27 points in a season before he turned 22. ryan McDonough had 40 games in the nhl before age 22 and cam fowler who we all seem to love had a total of 80 points in his first 3 seasons... an average of around 27 points per season

this is pretty damn good company and shows how a lot of very very very good dmen don't get their offensive game going before age 22

torey krug… different sort of player but he turned 22 on feb of the 2012-2013 season he had exactly 3 nhl games experience under his belt.

trust me when a dman is 22... his entire future is still in front of him. trying to write off a guy who was a top 10 pick and just finished playing an 82 game schedule averaging 22 mins a night with a plus 15 rating is dumb

you will feel very foolish your words are on record here in a couple years when this guy is universally considered a top 50 dman in the league. could be be even higher? I say yes... I watch a lot of this guy and got all sorts of natural talent.

he needs the victor hedman/seth jones treatment now... get his confidence... get on a better team... and just grow into that huge talented body of his

 

[Dizzay]

Last year was encouraging with the seasons that Debrusk, Heinen, Gryz, McAvoy, Bjork (small sample) and Donato (small sample) all showed. I mean we finished a point out of first in the Eastern Conference. That's pretty amazing considering the injuries we had and the amount of rookies/sophomores on this team.

Playoff time? We were not that same top tier eastern conference/legit stanley cup contender. Why? Because we were getting pushed around by the TB Lightning. WE barely beat a Leafs team who's d-core was arguably the worst in the entire 16 team playoffs and who's goalie in most games (not all) couldn't stop a beach ball. TB manhandled us, who then lost to the eventual Cup Champion Caps.

Now I think our prospects are all talented and I get the "new age Bruins fans" who think 5'10 180 pound speedsters are all we need to compete in this new NHL. My opinion, we did little to nothing to improve our club this off season if the Stanley Cup is our end goal. As a team who finished one point from being the Eastern Conference Champions, winning the Stanley Cup should be your goal, without fail. I like the Moore signing as he gives us some size on the left side but as for upfront, we did nothing to address the top 6 lack of size and grit. I think we're putting way too much pressure on the kids to produce, essentially asking Bjork, Donato, Heinen, and Debrusk to be top 6/9 players all at once. I would be happy if we got Nash back because I think he's the type of player we need on our 2nd line but if he's not returning, I feel we may be in trouble this season because I don't feel like Sweeney has anything else up his sleeve.

 

[Rumpy]

It's certainly a new direction. Maybe we should get a bit tougher? It's just a thought.

In my experience you can’t fix stupid. I’d rather have Olelsiak Petrovic Morin quite a few list of guys if we just want big and physical. Different style maybe Edmundson McCabe?

I’ve watched to many Oiler games to think Nurse will stop with the “what the hell were you thinking” turnovers.

You have provided a ton of great stats. Out of curiosity how many turn overs did Jake Gardiner have last year?

He’s one of those guys that I watch and I just want or expect more.

 

[HuskyBruinPride]

I think our season will be defined of how donato plays. If he puts 25 goals 30 assists we will be beasts of the east. He has to fill nash shoes plain and simple.

Ehh I don't know about that. Nash barely played for us last year, if the goal is to fill Nash's shoes from his time here then that should be no problem. I think its bigger than Donato, it's about how the young kids as a whole perform. We didn't add anything to the offense this offseason, which is okay as long as the kids continue to develop. Hopefully DeBrusk follows where he left off in the playoffs and Heinen and Bjork can be productive. If everything comes together we should have a pretty solid offense honestly.

 

[BruinDust]

Last year was encouraging with the seasons that Debrusk, Heinen, Gryz, McAvoy, Bjork (small sample) and Donato (small sample) all showed. I mean we finished a point out of first in the Eastern Conference. That's pretty amazing considering the injuries we had and the amount of rookies/sophomores on this team.

Playoff time? We were not that same top tier eastern conference/legit stanley cup contender. Why? Because we were getting pushed around by the TB Lightning. WE barely beat a Leafs team who's d-core was arguably the worst in the entire 16 team playoffs and who's goalie in most games (not all) couldn't stop a beach ball. TB manhandled us, who then lost to the eventual Cup Champion Caps.

Now I think our prospects are all talented and I get the "new age Bruins fans" who think 5'10 180 pound speedsters are all we need to compete in this new NHL. My opinion, we did little to nothing to improve our club this off season if the Stanley Cup is our end goal. As a team who finished one point from being the Eastern Conference Champions, winning the Stanley Cup should be your goal, without fail. I like the Moore signing as he gives us some size on the left side but as for upfront, we did nothing to address the top 6 lack of size and grit. I think we're putting way too much pressure on the kids to produce, essentially asking Bjork, Donato, Heinen, and Debrusk to be top 6/9 players all at once. I would be happy if we got Nash back because I think he's the type of player we need on our 2nd line but if he's not returning, I feel we may be in trouble this season because I don't feel like Sweeney has anything else up his sleeve.

What did the Washington Capitals do last off-season to improve themselves to be able to win a Stanley Cup last year?

Because I see a lot of quality players leave their organization, yet they were still able to win a Championship.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

As a 21 year old playing 22 mins a game for 82 games last year he was charged with 72 giveaways while putting up an outstanding plus 15 on that crappy oilers team

chara had 74 givaways for us last year in 73 games. drew doughtly has 79 giveaways while brent burns had 124 and dustin byfulgin had 79. even Duncan keith had 73

I don't think the stats back up your take at all that hes some sort of turn over machine...

im in Edmonton… watch a lot of oiler games. I will admit he was a 21 year old kid last year with less than 200 game experience. hes definitely still learning. oilers put him on the pp for awhile mid season because hes learning fast... looking good. he still isn't ready for the pp and they took him back off again rather than hurt his confidence

he turned 22 in feburary… lots of dmen still in ahl at 22. very few averaging 22 mins a night as the first pair guys on a sucky team like oilers... and fewer still being a plus 15 while averaging 22 mins a night as the first pair guy on a sucky team like oilers.

obviously Edmonton fans are hoping to low ball this guy on a contract. they are in cap hell. if he gets the 5.5-6.5 that he could get on the open market... they would be screwed. so they are all hoping for a contract around 4 mill.

at 4 mill hes a STEAL. this is a guy who handled 22 mins a night as a 21 year old without much problem at all. firing almost 200 shots on net... throwing around 2 1/2 hits a game... putting up 26 points...

yum yum yum yum yum

you haven't been paying attention to his performance if you call him a dumb turnover guy.

victor hedman at age 22 had never scored more than 26 points in a season... seth jones never had more than 27 points in a season before he turned 22. ryan McDonough had 40 games in the nhl before age 22 and cam fowler who we all seem to love had a total of 80 points in his first 3 seasons... an average of around 27 points per season

this is pretty damn good company and shows how a lot of very very very good dmen don't get their offensive game going before age 22

torey krug… different sort of player but he turned 22 on feb of the 2012-2013 season he had exactly 3 nhl games experience under his belt.

trust me when a dman is 22... his entire future is still in front of him. trying to write off a guy who was a top 10 pick and just finished playing an 82 game schedule averaging 22 mins a night with a plus 15 rating is dumb

you will feel very foolish your words are on record here in a couple years when this guy is universally considered a top 50 dman in the league. could be be even higher? I say yes... I watch a lot of this guy and got all sorts of natural talent.

he needs the victor hedman/seth jones treatment now... get his confidence... get on a better team... and just grow into that huge talented body of his

Darnell Nurse is 23 (FEB b-day) and was taken Top 10 (7) in the 2013 Draft:

197 games, 14g/33a/47p, .24 ppg.


Seth Jones is 23 (OCT b-day) and was taken Top 10 (4) in the 2013 Draft, (but that’s about where the similarities end):

393 games, 45g/137a/182p, .46 ppg


Victor Hedman (at age 23):

333 games, 29g/115a/144p, .43 ppg


Cam Fowler (at age 23):

345 games, 29g/121a/150p, .43 ppg

(Both Hedman and Fowler would have even more games played except for the 12/13 partial season).


I like Nurse quite a bit, but please stop throwing out these asinine comparisons and then trying to back them up by using misleading stats. Fowler only had 80 points in 195 games (at age 21) in his first three seasons (compared to 47 pts for DN) because of the shortened season.

Your “giveaway” stat is also a little misleading. There is a second statistic that typically accompanies it called “takeaways”. I usually look at the difference between the two to get a general idea about the player. Obviously, D who handle the puck a lot are going to turn it over more, so you have to look at the stat in context. Also, I’m not sure I entirely trust this stat. Seems like a very subjective thing (like hits at home)?

Last year Nurse had 72 giveaway and only 28 takeaways (-44) at 22 min per game.

Fowler at the same age was 52/23 (-29) at 21 min per game.

Jones was 55/67 (+12) in roughly 24:30 min per game last year.

Hedman at 23 was 44/34 (-10) at 22 min per game.


Not perfect, but the differences are pretty obvious. At the same ages, Jones is far and away the best puck handler of the four players. He is the only plus, and played more minutes. Hedman put up 55 points playing two less min per game that year than Jones did in 17/18.

Once again, what all of this shows is that you really should not be comparing Nurse to the three D you did...because there is literally no comparison between them.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Last year was encouraging with the seasons that Debrusk, Heinen, Gryz, McAvoy, Bjork (small sample) and Donato (small sample) all showed. I mean we finished a point out of first in the Eastern Conference. That's pretty amazing considering the injuries we had and the amount of rookies/sophomores on this team.

Playoff time? We were not that same top tier eastern conference/legit stanley cup contender. Why? Because we were getting pushed around by the TB Lightning. WE barely beat a Leafs team who's d-core was arguably the worst in the entire 16 team playoffs and who's goalie in most games (not all) couldn't stop a beach ball. TB manhandled us, who then lost to the eventual Cup Champion Caps.

Now I think our prospects are all talented and I get the "new age Bruins fans" who think 5'10 180 pound speedsters are all we need to compete in this new NHL. My opinion, we did little to nothing to improve our club this off season if the Stanley Cup is our end goal. As a team who finished one point from being the Eastern Conference Champions, winning the Stanley Cup should be your goal, without fail. I like the Moore signing as he gives us some size on the left side but as for upfront, we did nothing to address the top 6 lack of size and grit. I think we're putting way too much pressure on the kids to produce, essentially asking Bjork, Donato, Heinen, and Debrusk to be top 6/9 players all at once. I would be happy if we got Nash back because I think he's the type of player we need on our 2nd line but if he's not returning, I feel we may be in trouble this season because I don't feel like Sweeney has anything else up his sleeve.

Good strawman here.

 

[Ratty]

what I like about nurse is similar to what I like about guys like pronger and jovanovski early in their careers... and theres been a lot of other big dmen that take time to learn how to play defense.

as I look at history the number of huge dmen that play their best hockey in their first 3-4 years is almost non existent going back to larry robinson… he was 23 and in his 3rd season before he became a contributor in montreal. zdeno chara was 25 before his first season with more than 23 points... chris tanev who a lot of people here like was 24 before his first season with more than 20 mins of icetime averaged... of course our own johnny boychuk didn't make it until 27

darnell nurse just turned 23 in feburary for those who don't read the stats... fluke injuries hurt his first 2 years when he was 20 and 21 years old... holy cow
this year when he was 22 he stayed healthy and got a bit of pp time and put up 26 points... he threw a couple hits per game and averaged a couple blocks... despite playing 22 mins per game on a poor team only had 72 giveaways. got 194 shots on net

this is a guy with offensive upside to his game. this is a 6'4 220 pounder who wants to play physical and can still skate and produce offense too. and averaged 22 mins per night for that horrible oiler team while being an OUTSTANDING PLUS 15.

this is still a growing/developing man child. at worst hes going to be an outstanding 3/4 pair guy for years to come like a adam foote or a Richard matvichuk or johnny boychuk type of guy. but if his offense does develop this could be the next zdeno chara

if there is some way we can get him in here I go for it. this is the snarling beast we wish brandon carlo might develop into. but nurse is already there.

so after giving it some thought... I offersheet nurse for around 7 mill. Edmonton may just match and its as simple as that... we stay status quo

but if Edmonton gives him up... we go with a defense of

McAvoy/moore
carlo/chara
miller/nurse
grezlyck

krug and McQuaid get traded saving us 8 mill cap hit. nurse uses 7 and the 23rd man on the roster using 1 million

maybe nurse and moore would change places? wed have to see... but my guess is we gave more a 5 year deal because we like the idea of his mobility beside McAvoy.

next year when carlo is due his raise... and nurse needs a deal... and McAvoy needs a deal... we probably have to ask chara to take a hometown discount or part company with him. nurse can fit into chara's position as far as the cap hit goes. I wouldn't give nurse 7 mill so theres a danger he could walk unqualified. if nurse walks... we keep carlo. we are still looking ok. but if nurse stays I would probably shop carlo

got to hope McAvoy/moore do ok on the pp and nurse can develop into a decent second unit pp guy.

its a big move... dealing krug but I like the looks of this defense far better come playoff time with big mobile guys.

and an offer sheet has the added bonus of letting neely crap on Chiarelli one more time. im sure he will like that

Using offer sheets to recruit RFAs is risky business. Edmonton would probably match. It has about 5m in cap space, so it would have to move a 2 million dollar contract if the offer is seven.

To believe Boston can recover the surrendered draft picks (1st, 2nd, 3rd) by trading McQuaid and Krug is wishful thinking at best. Krug is the B's best offensive D, a staple on the PP. McQuaid provides solid depth.

And to have Neely stick it to Chiarelli is short sighted and amateur.
That would only empower Peter to retaliate against his former team by offer sheeting one of our promising youngsters, Donato, McAvoy, Bjork, DeBrusk, etc.

These are some of the reasons you don't see this strategy exercised very often. I believe Ryan O'Reilly with Avalanche was the last several years ago.

If you really want Nurse, why not use the trade route?

 

[Dizzay]

Good strawman here.

I legit have no clue what that even means.

My point is our 13 forwards we'll have up with the big club, as a group, is fairly soft.
I'm not getting into an argument with you on our varying opinions on what's big and what's not, its pointless.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Using offer sheets to recruit RFAs is risky business. Edmonton would probably match. It has about 5m in cap space, so it would have to move a 2 million dollar contract if the offer is seven.

To believe Boston can recover the surrendered draft picks (1st, 2nd, 3rd) by trading McQuaid and Krug is wishful thinking at best. Krug is the B's best offensive D, a staple on the PP. McQuaid provides solid depth.

And to have Neely stick it to Chiarelli is short sighted and amateur.
That would only empower Peter to retaliate against his former team by offer sheeting one of our promising youngsters, Donato, McAvoy, Bjork, DeBrusk, etc.

These are some of the reasons you don't see this strategy exercised very often. I believe Ryan O'Reilly with Avalanche was the last several years ago.

If you really want Nurse, why not use the trade route?

I disagree with almost every point... but politely disagree

if Edmonton matchs… where is the risk? boston has lost nothing with their offer. in fact they might help avoid a class action lawsuit from the players who probably are worried theres some collusion going on to explain why there are never any offer sheets now. sooner or later, unions usually sue if the owners aren't living up to the cba in good faith.

you really mean that boston shouldn't trade krug and McQuaid. not that they cant recover the picks by trading them. they would recover the picks by trading them. you just don't like the idea of them trading the best offensive dman or a depth guy like McQuaid. but... theres only 6 jobs. rather than get too worried about the 2 guys we don't have, I prefer to focus on the right 6 guys we should keep. would I rather have krug than moore? yes I would... but there is a cap to worry about. would I rather have krug than nurse? no... no I wouldn't. sorry, but its not short sited at all. id just flat out rather have nurse than krug. I do realize they are 2 different players. I do realize id lose our pp qb. I just strongly feel wed be a better team giving nurse around 5-6 mill for the next 4-5 years than we would giving the same money to krug. I don't believe we have enough money for both. my decision would be for nurse

as far as trades... I don't have any honest belief neely is willing to trade with Chiarelli. im fully convinced neely has a personal grudge against Chiarelli that is personal and not business. you and I can argue all we want that its not good business. but this is something neely either feels or doesn't feel. I believe its true. I cant change it. so I am simply saying an offer sheet would probably appeal to neely. a trade probably wouldn't.

I also don't think oilers would be willing to trade nurse for a price you would consider reasonable.

but they CANT pay nurse 7 mill. by offering nurse 7 mill we are setting his qualifying offer next year. its 7 mill or its ufa. of course nurse could take less but he doesn't have to. giving him a 1 year deal at 7 mill kind of screws Edmonton big time.

and yes... it might also screw us except... id walk away. im viewing this as a rental if we cant resign him. im saying 1 year of nurse is worth a first, a second, a third. even if he walks away after 1 year... I can live with that. obviously I would be hoping he might sign a reasonable deal like 3 years time 4.5 maybe... and with the 7 hes getting this year basically its 20.5 mill over 4 years. tell him and his agent he can be an ufa in just 4 years... he can get an average salary over 5 mill now... get it front loaded with 7 in his first year.

for us... we get to have a guy on a 4.5 cap hit for the next 3 years instead of krug north of 5 mill and coming up on a new deal that could take him into the 6-7 range.

I want a replacement for chara in the lineup... a big strong 22 min per night monster that will keep opposing players honest. we don't have that anywhere in our system. there aren't a lot of those guys anywhere in the nhl. nurse is one. that's what I want. that's why im saying hes worth trying to land. as for losing krug… I think moore is the correctly priced pp guy and im thinking boston just committed to him for 5 years. seems to me, that indicates how they feel about krugs future

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Darnell Nurse is 23 (FEB b-day) and was taken Top 10 (7) in the 2013 Draft:

197 games, 14g/33a/47p, .24 ppg.


Seth Jones is 23 (OCT b-day) and was taken Top 10 (4) in the 2013 Draft, (but that’s about where the similarities end):

393 games, 45g/137a/182p, .46 ppg


Victor Hedman (at age 23):

333 games, 29g/115a/144p, .43 ppg


Cam Fowler (at age 23):

345 games, 29g/121a/150p, .43 ppg

(Both Hedman and Fowler would have even more games played except for the 12/13 partial season).


I like Nurse quite a bit, but please stop throwing out these asinine comparisons and then trying to back them up by using misleading stats. Fowler only had 80 points in 195 games (at age 21) in his first three seasons (compared to 47 pts for DN) because of the shortened season.

Your “giveaway” stat is also a little misleading. There is a second statistic that typically accompanies it called “takeaways”. I usually look at the difference between the two to get a general idea about the player. Obviously, D who handle the puck a lot are going to turn it over more, so you have to look at the stat in context. Also, I’m not sure I entirely trust this stat. Seems like a very subjective thing (like hits at home)?

Last year Nurse had 72 giveaway and only 28 takeaways (-44) at 22 min per game.

Fowler at the same age was 52/23 (-29) at 21 min per game.

Jones was 55/67 (+12) in roughly 24:30 min per game last year.

Hedman at 23 was 44/34 (-10) at 22 min per game.


Not perfect, but the differences are pretty obvious. At the same ages, Jones is far and away the best puck handler of the four players. He is the only plus, and played more minutes. Hedman put up 55 points playing two less min per game that year than Jones did in 17/18.

Once again, what all of this shows is that you really should not be comparing Nurse to the three D you did...because there is literally no comparison between them.

will be an interesting argument to continue in 3 years... lets put a pin in it for now because trying to predict where 22 year old dmen might project to be when they have under 200 games under their belt is largely considered hit and miss guesswork by most hockey evaluators.

im saying hes worth a low level gamble giving up a first, a second, and a third... clearing some cap room by moving a couple guys I would probably move anyhow even without nurse coming in.

are you in the camp that says he has no offensive skill? is a dumb turnover machine? and basically is someone we shouldn't make any effort to get?

or did you simply want to debate me? im not sure you actually stated your position on whether you might be in favor of going after nurse or not. by debating me, I would guess you don't want him? or do you simply want to debate me? im not sure?

I tossed out some names for cautionary tale. what I said was true. how you interpret it is up to you. I was debating specific points other posters were making about nurse... saying he had no offense... saying he was a turn over machine... I was pointing out they were making some assumptions based on stats and I was simply showing stats of other similar players

you say the other players aren't similar... we disagree. and its something neither of us can 'prove' today. its an opinion. your opinion is they are not similar. my cautionary tale is that people felt the same way about these other guys at the same time.

feelings are risky to use when we are attempting to write off 22 year old dmen

I prefer to stick to the facts when I can. and nothing I said was factually incorrect. I invite everyone to use their own feelings to interpret. im just pointing out how often feelings are wrong about 22 year old big talented dmen breaking into the league who need a couple years to really bring out their full potential

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I legit have no clue what that even means.

My point is our 13 forwards we'll have up with the big club, as a group, is fairly soft.
I'm not getting into an argument with you on our varying opinions on what's big and what's not, its pointless.

You said that "New Aged Bruins fans think you can get by with 5'10'' 180 lbs. speedsters." No one has ever said this, so i don't know why you're mentioning it, like it's something.

 

[The don godfather]

Why do we need nurse when we have a backlog of zboril vak Lauzon. They seem they knocking on the door. We just signed moore to be here for half a decade. No more dman. I need a 30 goal scorer for David and skinner was given away. Hoping bjork is the answer.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Darnell Nurse is 23 (FEB b-day) and was taken Top 10 (7) in the 2013 Draft:

197 games, 14g/33a/47p, .24 ppg.


Seth Jones is 23 (OCT b-day) and was taken Top 10 (4) in the 2013 Draft, (but that’s about where the similarities end):

393 games, 45g/137a/182p, .46 ppg


Victor Hedman (at age 23):

333 games, 29g/115a/144p, .43 ppg


Cam Fowler (at age 23):

345 games, 29g/121a/150p, .43 ppg

(Both Hedman and Fowler would have even more games played except for the 12/13 partial season).


I like Nurse quite a bit, but please stop throwing out these asinine comparisons and then trying to back them up by using misleading stats. Fowler only had 80 points in 195 games (at age 21) in his first three seasons (compared to 47 pts for DN) because of the shortened season.

Your “giveaway” stat is also a little misleading. There is a second statistic that typically accompanies it called “takeaways”. I usually look at the difference between the two to get a general idea about the player. Obviously, D who handle the puck a lot are going to turn it over more, so you have to look at the stat in context. Also, I’m not sure I entirely trust this stat. Seems like a very subjective thing (like hits at home)?

Last year Nurse had 72 giveaway and only 28 takeaways (-44) at 22 min per game.

Fowler at the same age was 52/23 (-29) at 21 min per game.

Jones was 55/67 (+12) in roughly 24:30 min per game last year.

Hedman at 23 was 44/34 (-10) at 22 min per game.


Not perfect, but the differences are pretty obvious. At the same ages, Jones is far and away the best puck handler of the four players. He is the only plus, and played more minutes. Hedman put up 55 points playing two less min per game that year than Jones did in 17/18.

Once again, what all of this shows is that you really should not be comparing Nurse to the three D you did...because there is literally no comparison between them.

I will add a comment about the takeaway/giveaway ratio since I love when posters take the time to do some research and share some facts... thank you for that

all I can say, is I never wanted to argue that the 4 guys in question would ultimately have equal offensive skill.

I was just addressing a poster who said that nurse was a big dumb turnover machine and someone else that said nurse panics with the puck enough to be a huge problem.

that's why I brought out the turn over numbers which are very in line with other guys that played 22 mins a night for an 82 game schedule

as for the 4 guys you are upset I compare nurse too... I compared the point production and it had NOTHING to do with giveaways. it was 100% about point production. all of these guys at age 22 had not scored significantly better than 26 points. fowler had the good rookie year but then was scoring less the next 2 seasons. the other guys had not broken the 26 point mark. I use 26 points because that is what nurse produced.

I am only making a statement that if a fan says a dman has no offensive upside because hes failed to score more than 26 points by the age of 22... maybe that fan should do some research and see how often he would be wrong with that particular take. many many many many many dmen who become very good offensive producers have around the same points as nurse at age 22. remember krug who we are talking about in the same breath here had way less. and chara who turned out pretty good was in the same ballpark too.

I am only responding to other posters who wanted to write nurse off and saying these other guys at the same point in their career had similar numbers.

so its 2 separate arguments... one addressing the issue is he a turn over machine and throwing out some names of the best dmen in the nhl who have similar turnover rate

and 2... addressing the issue he has no offensive potential and throwing out some names of other highly drafted big dmen who didn't produce points at this age either

 

[BruinDust]

Why do we need nurse when we have a backlog of zboril vak Lauzon. They seem they knocking on the door. We just signed moore to be here for half a decade. No more dman. I need a 30 goal scorer for David and skinner was given away. Hoping bjork is the answer.

Problem is, they don't seem to be knocking on the door, at least this coming season. All 3 look like they'll need more time in the AHL for the time being.

Speaking of knocking on door. Aren't guys like Bjork and Donato (who have actually played and produced at the NHL level) knocking a heck of a lot more loudly than the 3 young D-men you just mentioned? Not to mention two of the better rookie wingers in the league last year in Heinen and Debrusk.

But yet you claim the Bruins don't need any more D-men, and they need to focus on a goal-scorer for David Krejci.

 

[The don godfather]

Problem is, they don't seem to be knocking on the door, at least this coming season. All 3 look like they'll need more time in the AHL for the time being.

Speaking of knocking on door. Aren't guys like Bjork and Donato (who have actually played and produced at the NHL level) knocking a heck of a lot more loudly than the 3 young D-men you just mentioned? Not to mention two of the better rookie wingers in the league last year in Heinen and Debrusk.

But yet you claim the Bruins don't need any more D-men, and they need to focus on a goal-scorer for David Krejci.

At the moment I see mcquaid sitting who is a quite capable dman in the pressbox . I really feel we are rich back there especially with the signing of moore who will play 20 plus min. We need a sure fire winger for David If we are truly running for the cup. It's that simple.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

At the moment I see mcquaid sitting who is a quite capable dman in the pressbox . I really feel we are rich back there especially with the signing of moore who will play 20 plus min. We need a sure fire winger for David If we are truly running for the cup. It's that simple.

I stopped reading after "McQuaid in the press box"

 

[NDiesel]

Last year was encouraging with the seasons that Debrusk, Heinen, Gryz, McAvoy, Bjork (small sample) and Donato (small sample) all showed. I mean we finished a point out of first in the Eastern Conference. That's pretty amazing considering the injuries we had and the amount of rookies/sophomores on this team.

Playoff time? We were not that same top tier eastern conference/legit stanley cup contender. Why? Because we were getting pushed around by the TB Lightning. WE barely beat a Leafs team who's d-core was arguably the worst in the entire 16 team playoffs and who's goalie in most games (not all) couldn't stop a beach ball. TB manhandled us, who then lost to the eventual Cup Champion Caps.

Now I think our prospects are all talented and I get the "new age Bruins fans" who think 5'10 180 pound speedsters are all we need to compete in this new NHL. My opinion, we did little to nothing to improve our club this off season if the Stanley Cup is our end goal. As a team who finished one point from being the Eastern Conference Champions, winning the Stanley Cup should be your goal, without fail. I like the Moore signing as he gives us some size on the left side but as for upfront, we did nothing to address the top 6 lack of size and grit. I think we're putting way too much pressure on the kids to produce, essentially asking Bjork, Donato, Heinen, and Debrusk to be top 6/9 players all at once. I would be happy if we got Nash back because I think he's the type of player we need on our 2nd line but if he's not returning, I feel we may be in trouble this season because I don't feel like Sweeney has anything else up his sleeve.

Callahan - 5'10" 187 lbs
Cirelli - 6'0" 180 lbs
Cory Conacher - 5'8" 180
Gourde - 5'9" 172
Johnson - 5' 8" 183
Kucherov 5'11" 178
Point 5'10" 166

Guess who their two biggest forwards are?
J.T. Miller at 6'1" 218 LBS
AND
BIG BAD STAMKOS at 6'1" 194 lbs

So tell me again how 5'10" 180 lb speedsters aren't the new NHL, because it looks to me that their forward corps is pretty f***ing small.

Their D Corps is huge, but so is ours besides Krug and Gryz. Moore fixes that like you said, likely sending Gryz to the pressbox for some games.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Why do we need nurse when we have a backlog of zboril vak Lauzon. They seem they knocking on the door. We just signed moore to be here for half a decade. No more dman. I need a 30 goal scorer for David and skinner was given away. Hoping bjork is the answer.

you might get your hope met for Bjork. theres other in house solutions that might also end up being the right guy. no one talks about forbaska karlsson maybe playing rw his rookie season, but boston is notorious for starting young centers on the wing their first season. with a good strong camp, I could see this being the option they go with for krecji's wing. but then I can also see Bjork. I can also see Heinen.

camp could be very interesting who ends up with the assignment.

don't loose sleep over skinner. he was too expensive on the cap hit. we cant afford anyone at that price without moving contract out. kovalchuk would have been worth it. Tavares would have been worth it. skinner is not worth it. maybe if Carolina ate 1/2 the hit we could have jumped into the discussion. but at 6 mill it was a non starter. people can blame Sweeney for missing out on skinner but ONLY if they don't understand cap management. Anyone who does realize theres a cap wont be upset we passed on skinner.

as for whether we can use nurse or fill internally with zboril, vak, lauzon I suppose id have to point out how long it takes for dmen to become contributors at the nhl level and where all these guys are in the developmental cycle compared to nurse. id probably have to point out none of these guys have the projected upside of nurse either.

right now we can make a few detective deductions on how boston is thinking

im going to say there is no doubts concerning McAvoy or his ability to hold down the number 1 spot on the right side. they fed him 22 mins a game in his rookie season and he handled it well. theres only a golden future awaiting him if he stays healthy.

john moore is an exceptional skater who has good size at 6'2 and north of 200 pounds. he has scored 19 goals one 243 shots over his last 144 games indicating a very good offensive touch. boston gave him a crazy long 5 year contact so obviously they see him as an important part of the team. im going to suggest they want a bigger mobile guy to play with McAvoy and this is the anointed son.

in the second pairing id say that zdeno chara is the starting point assuming im correct that moore is going to be mcavoys partner. we are lucky to have chara. he can still play top pair assignments defensively. he is still a very imposing physical presence. but of course the question is how long does he want to play for and should we continue to pay him such a huge cap hit if it stops us from locking down a long term replacement?

brandon carlo is the obvious partner for chara if chara isn't with McAvoy. carlo has played ALL his best hockey when paired with chara. in order for carlo to become the dman we want... the best option is to have him learning everything he can learn from chara. BUT... my question and I think the team has the same question... what is carlo's eventual upside and how much will his cap hit be? If carlo can evaluate his game then we probably don't need nurse. if carlo can develop a respectable mean streak, we probably don't need nurse. Someone like myself, would feel more comfortable with nurse INSTEAD of carlo because its not a question if nurse has a mean streak. also I think nurse has vastly superior offensive potential over carlo. If boston is higher on carlo then I am... then I would say they would have NO INTEREST in nurse. and the whole argument stops right here. We cant afford both guys long term.

as for krug… I will argue he doesn't fit well with McAvoy due to them being too small together... and he didn't really fit well with carlo. I think that means kurg is looking at the bottom pair. and his cap hit is ALOT for the bottom pair. Fans here get super upset when I call him a great 3rd pair pp specialist... but he is GREAT in that role. I have no prob keeping him if we can afford the cap hit. starting next year when McAvoy and carlo leave their elc I don't think we can afford him. he could stay here this year... its ok... but I cant see him being here beyond this year unless he develops better chemistry with carlo. and im not even sure carlo will stay unless he develops a better mean streak.

its about cap management... which takes me to the bottom 3 guys on the depth chart

miller... is a very good 3rd pair dman imho... but the cap hit isn't easy to take. and some other team will probably offer him more as an ufa. I don't see him here long term

McQuaid... is a rather average 3rd pair dman imho... again the cap hit isn't easy to take. I could see McQuaid returning on a lower cap hit and playing a few more years here at the better price. but having both miller and McQuaid here in the meantime doesn't make a lot of sense. sooner, rather than later I think the team needs to move one of these guys and put someone with more mobility into their spot

speaking of mobility... grezlyck has it. he played well last year. but it doesn't really make sense for boston to go out and sign moore if they feel grezlyck has any upside. I think they feel what we got is what we will get. I don't think the team has a lot of faith he will move up the pecking order.

so when one of the kids you like is ready... odds are they are looking at the 3rd pairing left hand spot job currently occupied by krug or they are needing to step into the hole left by chara when he retires... but when will chara retire? and even if krug does move on... what about grez?

planning on a kid coming in and struggling... as kids do... doesn't seem to be in the plans right at the moment. but trying to upgrade the defense to a cup worthy defense might make some sense. that's why im taking the time to defend a nurse target. and why im taking a stab at what might be going on in managements thinking as far as their view of the big picture

a lot of this is about cap management. and some is about finding partner assignments where the guys can win their matchups and not get taken advantage of at playoff time.

its about being a better playoff team that has an affordable cap hit now

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I stopped reading after "McQuaid in the press box"

how are you planning on getting him into the lineup? miller in the pressbox? carlo in the pressbox? McAvoy in the pressbox?

it might not be fun to read about one of your favorite players in the pressbox but they are probably only going to dress 6 dmen

krug in the pressbox? chara in the pressbox? moore in the pressbox?

not fun to read... but McQuaid in the pressbox is the most likely option of these 7 possibilities we are facing today

 

[Dizzay]

You said that "New Aged Bruins fans think you can get by with 5'10'' 180 lbs. speedsters." No one has ever said this, so i don't know why you're mentioning it, like it's something.

It is something.
But that's yours and a few other's opinions much like mine and a few others believe the Bruins need to add size and toughness. Not going to get into a pissing match with you once again, so move on.

 

[BruinDust]

At the moment I see mcquaid sitting who is a quite capable dman in the pressbox . I really feel we are rich back there especially with the signing of moore who will play 20 plus min. We need a sure fire winger for David If we are truly running for the cup. It's that simple.

OK the Bruins are pretty deep at D. They got 8 NHL caliber guys, 4 lefties and 4 righties. Don't disagree there.

Honestly I don't think Sweeney is about to make a move for a winger until he sees what he has in his young wingers during camp/pre-season/October schedule. Not to mention Rick Nash on a 1-year deal coming in later is still an option if he decides to play (granted he may go elsewhere but right now the book ain't closed and both Sweeney and Nash expressed a desire to return).

And if Sweeney determines come say November that he really needs to add a scoring winger, he has depth in his NHL D-corps group from which to deal from.

I get it's the summer but all this clamoring for a August trade for a scoring winger is kinda pointless as I don't see it happening right at this juncture.

 

[BruinDust]

Callahan - 5'10" 187 lbs
Cirelli - 6'0" 180 lbs
Cory Conacher - 5'8" 180
Gourde - 5'9" 172
Johnson - 5' 8" 183
Kucherov 5'11" 178
Point 5'10" 166

Guess who their two biggest forwards are?
J.T. Miller at 6'1" 218 LBS
AND
BIG BAD STAMKOS at 6'1" 194 lbs

So tell me again how 5'10" 180 lb speedsters aren't the new NHL, because it looks to me that their forward corps is pretty ****ing small.

Their D Corps is huge, but so is ours besides Krug and Gryz. Moore fixes that like you said, likely sending Gryz to the pressbox for some games.

Woah woah woah, too much factual information for one post. We can't let these facts deter the narrative that the Bruins forwards are small with pillow-like softness, and are no match for the Big Bad Bolts.

 

[tremha]

Draft years 2007-2009 killed the dynasty that could have been for the Bruins.

We didn't have a transition. Had we even had 3-4 players that panned out to anything during those years, I feel like our fortunes could have been better.

100% agree. the B's hole is in the 24 - 28 year olds who could shoulder some of the transition to the kids